Bible Study Laodicea on the Lycus

[Imagican]

Interesting indeed.

Wikkipedia, who many attempt to belittle for it's content, offers this to say about "Laodicea on the Lycus":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laodicea_on_the_Lycus

It seems to be a pretty 'straight forward' article to me. Based on some pretty basic understanding.

Read it. SEE if you are able to come to ANY significant conclusions as to the NATURE of this community and WHY it has ANY significance to US in these modern times.

Pretty 'nifty' stuff.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Now allow me to offer the 'purpose' of this thread:

I have always been curious as to the warnings against the Laodicean 'church'. Due to this 'curiousity', I have attempted to study, (over the years), anything I could find relating to this ancient PLACE and people.

The article in reference is a 'pretty good' sumation of what I have learned over the years. There is MUCH more 'detail' to be obtained, but OVERALL, the article is pretty precise in it's GENERAL description.

For those that have READ the article; Compare this ancient people and PLACE to America. See if there is not a 'similarity' to it's culture and community. I believe that you will be relatively amused at the similarities of Laodiea and America.

MEC

 

[Bick]

Hi MEC, I read the article in Wikipedia, and I don't see any similarities between ancient Laodicea and America.

As you no doubt see some similarities, are you tying America to the Assembly of Laodicea in Revelation?

 

[Imagican]

Not necessarily in NAME, but in the 'same' type of CONDITION.

Let me exmplain:

We see that the city of Laodicea was sort of a 'multi-national' settlement. Peoples from MANY MANY 'other places', that found themselves in a diverse community due to the nature of it's trade and geographical location.

They were a people of MANY different cultures and religion. But even though, they were 'making it' as a 'community'. And VERY successfully so.

Now, if we 'zip' ahead to what is offered in Rev. concerning this 'people', we find that there was OBVIOUSLY a 'church' born in this place. But, SOMETHING happened to KEEP them on the 'correct path'. For it shows in Rev. that these KNEW the existence of the truth, but instead of FOLLOWING it, they were simply 'luke-warm' in their ADHERANCE to it. Indicating a 'laxity' that 'came from SOMEWHERE'. Neither HOT nor COLD, but basically sort of 'indifferent'. Not really FOR, nor really AGAINST. Simply choosing to KNOW of but NOT follow the TRUTH as it had been DELIVERED to them by the apostles.

The point of my curiosity concerning the 'judgement' offered in Rev. was NOT exactly a simple 'why', but WHO were these people. What factors would contribute to the 'judgement'. What MADE them 'neither hot, nor cold'. And upon studying what is availible NOW about these people of Laodicea it becomes apparent that there were a NUMBER of factors that contributed to their CULTURE and 'beliefs'. Understanding what we CAN of this set of 'culture and belief', it quickly becomes apprarent that WERE many similarities to these people and the nation of America.

MEC

 

[Vic C.]

*bump* for personal use. I'm gathering up data on the history of this city and it's church. If anyone has or knows of information on it's earthquake destruction and it's rebuilding, please post here.

Thanks,
Vic

 

[Bick]

If you are trying to compare the USA with this Laodicea, to me, you are wasting your time.

The book of Revelation is, IMO, misinterpreted in so many ways that it is no wonder so many 'believers' have been and are being misled.

The key to understanding it, is verse 1:10, where John says, literally, "I was in spirit in the Lord's day." Friends, this was John's way of saying, 'in his vision he was in the day of the Lord'.

The book is concerned with the Jew, the Gentile, and the Earth.

To really understand Revelation, one must really know the Hebrew Scriptures, for there are hundreds of quotes or allusions from them.

The commentary of Revelation (the Apocalypse) that makes the most sense, is "The Apocalypse or The Day of the Lord" by E.W. Bullinger, which can be downloaded from http://www.philologos.org, after asking for this commentary.
If my views are wrong, I would like to know. So, please give it a try.

Dr. Bullinger was an immanent scholar of the whole Bible.

The confusion starts because the seven "ecclesias," meaning "called out ones", are called "churches," and they are mostly interpreted as Christian Churches in existance when John penned Revelation, and thus, they are aligned with the history of the Christian churches.

But, this is in error, for a number of reasons, first of all because, at the time John wrote Revelation, there was no church in Thyatira.

There are many other arguments from the Scriptures to confirm this error, but that would be beyond the scope of this post.

 

[Vic C.]

I know your post wasn't directed at me, but this jumped out:

But, this is in error, for a number of reasons, first of all because, at the time John wrote Revelation, there was no church in Thyatira.

I'm looking for historical pointers that may lead to when Revelation was written. If one holds to the belief that John wrote it in the 90s AD, there is a strong possibility there was no church in Laodicea either. In fact, there might not have been a city of Laodicea at that time.

Does Bullinger explain why John would write about congregations that didn't exist and does he explain why messengers were asked to be sent to these cities with letters of warnings? In other words, isn't it possible Revelation was written at an earlier date, a date when all seven churches existed?

I'm just looking to gather data at this time, if possible. I just desire to know the history. I'm not concerned with speculations and hypotheticals right now. As Joe Friday once said, "All we want are the facts". 8-)

 

[Bick]

I know your post wasn't directed at me, but this jumped out:

But, this is in error, for a number of reasons, first of all because, at the time John wrote Revelation, there was no church in Thyatira.

I'm looking for historical pointers that may lead to when Revelation was written. If one holds to the belief that John wrote it in the 90s AD, there is a strong possibility there was no church in Laodicea either. In fact, there might not have been a city of Laodicea at that time.

Does Bullinger explain why John would write about congregations that didn't exist and does he explain why messengers were asked to be sent to these cities with letters of warnings? In other words, isn't it possible Revelation was written at an earlier date, a date when all seven churches existed?

I'm just looking to gather data at this time, if possible. I just desire to know the history. I'm not concerned with speculations and hypotheticals right now. As Joe Friday once said, "All we want are the facts". 8-)

MY COMMENTS: Hi vic. You might go back and reread carefully my last post.

There are differing views as to the date of John's writing Revelation. Some critics hold to it being compiled before 70 A.D., and that is my view.

But, regardless of the exact date, the key is that the 'day of the Lord' starts with the tribulation period (Daniel's 70 the week) which is what John says in 1:10, literally, 'I was in spirit in the Lord's day', which is John's way of saying "the day of the Lord" for he was in that era in his vision.

So, the seven ecclesias, are seven Jewish assemblies. Unfortunately, the translators use "church" everytime for "ecclesia", which makes so many think "Christian Church." "Assembly" could have been used, or even "synagogue" which was a called out group. In my opinion, they will all be in that future time in John's vision.

Only the Lord knows the reason for the letters to the seven congregations, but since I understand Revelation is concerned with the Jew, the Gentile and the Earth, to have John write these letters of praise and warnings must be for a good reason.

These 'ecclesias' would be future assemblies of Jewish believers on earth. The amazing thing that Bullinger brings out is that seven past phases of Israel's history are referred to in these Epistles: and the literary order in Revelation corresponds with and answers to, the historical order in the Old Testament.

Som time, vic, take a look at Bullinger's Commentary.

As for speculation that Revelation could have been written at at time when these seven churches existed, you know, you can speculate anything.

In his commentary, Bullinger ties in many accounts in Israel's history to the description of the different assemblies. Just go and look.