Learning and Attacking

[elijah23]

People can learn from each other. They seem to prefer attacking each other, though. How come?

 

[Deborah13]

Religion and Politics.

I think because with most people care very deeply about both things. There are some who just like to argue but not most.

 

[elijah23]

Religion and Politics.

I think because with most people care very deeply about both things. There are some who just like to argue but not most.

I think a lot of people aren't interested in learning. They want to show off how much they know.

 

[Deborah13]

Religion and Politics.

I think because with most people care very deeply about both things. There are some who just like to argue but not most.

I think a lot of people aren't interested in learning. They want to show off how much they know.

Some maybe but not most, I think. But then I'd rather see people and especially Christians in a good light, until they tell me different.

People get emotional about these two subjects, I listed. That's the saying, "If you want to get along don't discuss religion and politics."

 

[elijah23]

Religion and Politics.

I think because with most people care very deeply about both things. There are some who just like to argue but not most.

I think a lot of people aren't interested in learning. They want to show off how much they know.

Some maybe but not most, I think. But then I'd rather see people and especially Christians in a good light, until they tell me different.

People get emotional about these two subjects, I listed. That's the saying, "If you want to get along don't discuss religion and politics."

And yet, that is why we are on this site - to discuss religion. Just because we are Christians doesn't mean we always behave well.

 

[elijah23]

I think that it's a lack of faith. People are humbled at a low point in their life and accept the Lord in faith, and then at some point get distracted by worldly issues and having been saved from the present tribulation which brought them unto the Lord in the first place begin to lose faith and feel empowered of themselves again. Losing the faith and humility which brought them there. Nothing we do or know is from anything else except the Lord. We are nothing, know nothing, that it not be given from the Lord. People forget this.

It seems to me that pride is a more likely culprit. We don't like it when someone disagrees with us. Mature people can live with that. Immature people get angry. Does that make sense?

 

[handy]

Sometimes its perception. Just because someone is disagreeing with another, this doesn't mean they are on the attack.

Take for example the issue of baptism....

Example of disagreement:

Christian A: I believe that Colossians 2:11-12 is a solid biblical foundation for infant baptism.

Christian B: Infant baptism is a false doctrine straight from the pits of hell.

While Christian B used some pretty strong language in his reply, his focus was on the issue, not on Christian A. I would not consider this an attack.

On the other hand:

Christian A: I believe that Colossians 2:11-12 is a solid biblical foundation for infant baptism.
Christian B: Well, it's obvious that you don't know your Scriptures very well then. Why don't you educate yourself before trying to speak about a subject you obviously know so little about.

In this scenario, Christian B is obviously attacking Christian A in a very disrespectful way.

In scenario 1, even though Christian B was pretty abrupt in his reply, Christian A could follow up and discuss the issue... given Colossians 2, why would Christian B still feel that way? What are some of the Scriptures Christian B is aware of that counters Colossians 2, making the doctrine of infant baptism false? Whereas it is a blunt reply, it's not necessarily a reply that ends all discussion. The two Christians can continue to discuss and perhaps both can learn from each other. However, there are times when, if Christian A is a more sensitive type of personality, he will feel smacked down by the kind of abruptness Christian B used in this scenario. Even though Christian B wasn't attacking Christian A in any way, it could be perceived as an attack...

There is a saying "perception is reality". The only thing is, it's often not. The saying is incorrect. Too many people though, operate on their perceptions, which are often knee-jerk, emotional reactions to something, rather than getting to the reality of the situation. This is where Christians often "feel" attacked, when perhaps that wasn't the case.

 

[elijah23]

Sometimes its perception. Just because someone is disagreeing with another, this doesn't mean they are on the attack.

Take for example the issue of baptism....

Example of disagreement:

Christian A: I believe that Colossians 2:11-12 is a solid biblical foundation for infant baptism.

Christian B: Infant baptism is a false doctrine straight from the pits of hell.

While Christian B used some pretty strong language in his reply, his focus was on the issue, not on Christian A. I would not consider this an attack.

On the other hand:

Christian A: I believe that Colossians 2:11-12 is a solid biblical foundation for infant baptism.
Christian B: Well, it's obvious that you don't know your Scriptures very well then. Why don't you educate yourself before trying to speak about a subject you obviously know so little about.

In this scenario, Christian B is obviously attacking Christian A in a very disrespectful way.

In scenario 1, even though Christian B was pretty abrupt in his reply, Christian A could follow up and discuss the issue... given Colossians 2, why would Christian B still feel that way? What are some of the Scriptures Christian B is aware of that counters Colossians 2, making the doctrine of infant baptism false? Whereas it is a blunt reply, it's not necessarily a reply that ends all discussion. The two Christians can continue to discuss and perhaps both can learn from each other. However, there are times when, if Christian A is a more sensitive type of personality, he will feel smacked down by the kind of abruptness Christian B used in this scenario. Even though Christian B wasn't attacking Christian A in any way, it could be perceived as an attack...

There is a saying "perception is reality". The only thing is, it's often not. The saying is incorrect. Too many people though, operate on their perceptions, which are often knee-jerk, emotional reactions to something, rather than getting to the reality of the situation. This is where Christians often "feel" attacked, when perhaps that wasn't the case.

It is okay to say what you believe, even when it disagrees with the other person. It is not okay to belittle the person. I think that is what you were saying, too.

 

[handy]

It is okay to say what you believe, even when it disagrees with the other person. It is not okay to belittle the person. I think that is what you were saying, too.

It is what I am saying! :yes

I thought it worth saying because, here at this forum, as well as many other forums, people misunderstand and mistake simple disagreement as a "personal attack". There is a difference.

 

[Elijah674]

It is okay to say what you believe, even when it disagrees with the other person. It is not okay to belittle the person. I think that is what you were saying, too.

It is what I am saying! :yes

I thought it worth saying because, here at this forum, as well as many other forums, people misunderstand and mistake simple disagreement as a "personal attack". There is a difference.

You are a sharp a Gal! (but, mods are included)

--Elijah

 

[Mountain Man]

Another alternative is to just be willing to take any criticism or heat that comes with your position,there is no right to be free from offense in life or to be spared,the cross it's self is called an offense and the day is coming when being a follower of Jesus will be extremely offensive and will bring great persecution....how is anyone going to be able to deal with that then if they fall apart because somebody disagrees with them on an internet forum now ?

 

[elijah23]

It is okay to say what you believe, even when it disagrees with the other person. It is not okay to belittle the person. I think that is what you were saying, too.

It is what I am saying! :yes

I thought it worth saying because, here at this forum, as well as many other forums, people misunderstand and mistake simple disagreement as a "personal attack". There is a difference.

But let me ask you something:

If someone says something I believe to be untrue, am I insulting that person by saying, "That isn't true"?

 

[elijah23]

Another alternative is to just be willing to take any criticism or heat that comes with your position,there is no right to be free from offense in life or to be spared,the cross it's self is called an offense and the day is coming when being a follower of Jesus will be extremely offensive and will bring great persecution....how is anyone going to be able to deal with that then if they fall apart because somebody disagrees with them on an internet forum now ?

Yes, it is politically incorrect to follow Jesus. It is okay to give him lip service, but to actually obey him is frowned upon by the world.

 

[elijah23]

It is okay to say what you believe, even when it disagrees with the other person. It is not okay to belittle the person. I think that is what you were saying, too.

It is what I am saying! :yes

I thought it worth saying because, here at this forum, as well as many other forums, people misunderstand and mistake simple disagreement as a "personal attack". There is a difference.

But let me ask you something:

If someone says something I believe to be untrue, am I insulting that person by saying, "That isn't true"?

The reason I ask is that I said that to someone today.

 

[Mountain Man]

If someone says something I believe to be untrue, am I insulting that person by saying, "That isn't true"?

I have ask this question again and again and have never received an answer,just some vague rambling about speaking the truth in "love" etc,etc,etc.....and lets face it love today means everything and anything to everyone and anyone and in the modern context has come to mean nothing at all....and it is now more than ever a political world and that is what rules the day.

 

[elijah23]

If someone says something I believe to be untrue, am I insulting that person by saying, "That isn't true"?

I have ask this question again and again and have never received an answer,just some vague rambling about speaking the truth in "love" etc,etc,etc.....and lets face it love today means everything and anything to everyone and anyone and in the modern context has come to mean nothing at all....and it is now more than ever a political world and that is what rules the day.

I was in a debate today, and someone said something I didn't believe, so I said, "I suspect that isn't true." I was wondering if I should have found another way to put that. If someone said that to me, perhaps I would have been upset, though hopefully not. Someone called me a liar, once, and I did find that upsetting, though I didn't insult the person back.

 

[Mountain Man]

If someone says something I believe to be untrue, am I insulting that person by saying, "That isn't true"?

I have ask this question again and again and have never received an answer,just some vague rambling about speaking the truth in "love" etc,etc,etc.....and lets face it love today means everything and anything to everyone and anyone and in the modern context has come to mean nothing at all....and it is now more than ever a political world and that is what rules the day.

I was in a debate today, and someone said something I didn't believe, so I said, "I suspect that isn't true." I was wondering if I should have found another way to put that. If someone said that to me, perhaps I would have been upset, though hopefully not. Someone called me a liar, once, and I did find that upsetting, though I didn't insult the person back.

The person most prone to insult rules,threads are instantly shut down when they show signs of offense,i avoid many topics and threads because I know that is where it is headed....they used to say that if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen...now they seek to get rid of the heat and the kitchen and turn it all into a nursery.

 

[handy]

But let me ask you something:

If someone says something I believe to be untrue, am I insulting that person by saying, "That isn't true"?

I don't think it's inherently insulting to correct someone speaking an untruth...especially if they believe it to be truth. I think the Bible equips us with some tools here though. First, there is the fact that we are taught to always speak the truth in love. Sometimes folks think that simply speaking the truth is loving, and ignore how they are speaking it. Telling someone "You're such a liar for saying that" might be true, but that's not exactly loving. Speaking the truth in love is of vital importance when we are in disagreement with each other. A more gentle, "I believe you are in error and here is why .... " or something to that effect will probably go a long ways towards not offending.

But, even before we get to that point, as Proverbs 9:7-8 tells us, we shouldn't correct scoffers and the wicked. This is a hard one, because it seems that we need to try to read someone's heart, not something we are equipped to do. However, it does behoove us to try to get to know someone a little before attempting to correct them. I think this is the single biggest mistake the church is making in this day and age of mass communication and social networking via the internet. In our rush to use 21st century technology to "get the truth out there"... we fail to go back and do what Jesus emphasized doing 2000 years ago, seek to love our neighbors (whether the guy next door, or the person a continent away) as ourselves. The gospel is very relationship oriented. When we speak the truth of God's word, without bothering to even build a relationship first, not only can we fall prey to speaking the truth without love, we can also make the mistake of reproving scoffers and the wicked...and will most likely get our head handed to us on a plate for our efforts.

 

[handy]

I was in a debate today, and someone said something I didn't believe, so I said, "I suspect that isn't true."

This sounds pretty gentle and loving. Much better than I'm apt to say when I get engaged in controversial issues.

 

[divinecloud7]

Simply because they are not living by the spirit, but by the flesh nature. They are either not Christians or trying to be and either learning or failing.......again I say the enemy is crafty and some are blinded and tied to wickedness because of it.

It is difficult when I see falsies attempting to perpetuate themselves as so called "angels of light" and deceiving and manipulating in order to maintain the perception of right; when obviously it is wrong.


Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>