Lot and his daughters

[felix]

One of the most mysterious passages in the Old Testament is the with Lot and his two daughters. How would a father made up his mind to give his two daughters to be raped for the sake of two strangers? When I was looking into these passages today, I was finally able to unveil the truth behind what made Lot do this.

(Gen 19:8) See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.”

We see that clearly in the above verse, Lot is providing his two daughters who are virgins to be raped instead of strangers.

A recap of the final events

(Gen 19:12-15) Then the men said to Lot, “Have you anyone else here? Son-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whomever you have in the city—take [them] out of this place! For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it.” So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who had married his daughters, and said, “Get up, get out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city!” But to his sons-in-law he seemed to be joking. When the morning dawned, the angels urged Lot to hurry, saying, “Arise, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the punishment of the city.”

Explanation

If you closely follow the verses, the angels are asking Lot to save other relatives. So, Lot goes to his sons-in-law to warn them, but didn’t warn or inform his daughters who are married to them, nor does scripture speaks anything about them. This shows there are only two daughters for Lot who were married in Sodom but the husbands haven’t had any sexual relationship which proves they were actually living a homosexual lifestyle. This could have forced Lot’s daughters to come and stay with their father because of their abominable deeds.

Now, Lot, knowing that his daughters cannot have a child because, their husbands were not willing to sleep with (and haven’t even slept once with them). So, he is allowing anyone to have his daughters, so that he can have grandchildren at least through any of them. It is such a sorrowful situation when the whole of Sodom is full of abomination esp, with homosexuality.

Let me know what you think about this view ..

 

[John 8:32]

One of the most mysterious passages in the Old Testament is the with Lot and his two daughters. How would a father made up his mind to give his two daughters to be raped for the sake of two strangers? When I was looking into these passages today, I was finally able to unveil the truth behind what made Lot do this.



We see that clearly in the above verse, Lot is providing his two daughters who are virgins to be raped instead of strangers.

A recap of the final events



Explanation

If you closely follow the verses, the angels are asking Lot to save other relatives. So, Lot goes to his sons-in-law to warn them, but didn’t warn or inform his daughters who are married to them, nor does scripture speaks anything about them. This shows there are only two daughters for Lot who were married in Sodom but the husbands haven’t had any sexual relationship which proves they were actually living a homosexual lifestyle. This could have forced Lot’s daughters to come and stay with their father because of their abominable deeds.

Now, Lot, knowing that his daughters cannot have a child because, their husbands were not willing to sleep with (and haven’t even slept once with them). So, he is allowing anyone to have his daughters, so that he can have grandchildren at least through any of them. It is such a sorrowful situation when the whole of Sodom is full of abomination esp, with homosexuality.

Ref: http://www.churchsw.org/lot-and-his-daughters

Let me know what you think about this view ..

Some interesting thoughts here. The conundrum of Lot and his daughters has puzzled me also. I have often wondered if the corruptness of Sodom had influenced Lot to the point that his values had slid to the level he saw nothing wrong with offering his daughters.

 

[Claudya]

I checked a number of translations, English and German, and most of them speak of the daughter's husbands as engaged to them - pledged to marry, but not married yet.
That would be a better explanation why Lot could offer his daughters to the men outside... [cynicism]if they'd been married the authority to offer the women for rape would fall to their husbands. [/cynicism]

 

[felix]

I checked a number of translations, English and German, and most of them speak of the daughter's husbands as engaged to them - pledged to marry, but not married yet.
That would be a better explanation why Lot could offer his daughters to the men outside... [cynicism]if they'd been married the authority to offer the women for rape would fall to their husbands. [/cynicism]

Engaged ? Which verse does it say that ?

 

[Claudya]

Genesis 19:14
Most translations on biblegateway.com speak of the sons-in-law being engaged to Lot's daughters.

Is anyone here good enough in Hebrew to give us an interpretation of the original text, as to whether they were engaged to marry, or already married?

 

[felix]

Genesis 19:14
Most translations on biblegateway.com speak of the sons-in-law being engaged to Lot's daughters.

Is anyone here good enough in Hebrew to give us an interpretation of the original text, as to whether they were engaged to marry, or already married?

Below is LXX (in English) translated into Greek ~ 200 BC.

(Genesis 19:8) But I have two daughters, who have not known a man. I will bring them out to you, and do ye use them as it may please you, only do not injury to these men, to avoid which they came under the shelter of my roof.
(Genesis 19:14) And Lot went out, and spoke to his sons-in-law who had married his daughters, and said, Rise up, and depart out of this place, for the Lord is about to destroy the city; but he seemed to be speaking absurdly before his sons-in-law.
(Genesis 19:15) But when it was morning, the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise and take thy wife, and thy two daughters whom thou hast, and go forth; lest thou also be destroyed with the iniquities of the city.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It is Jewish custom as well as other nations even today that once a daughter is engaged, they are considered married.
I believe that in my past rabbinic studies that this was clarified in the Talmud.
It's been a long time ago, I can't quote anything specifically.

 

[felix]

It is Jewish custom as well as other nations even today that once a daughter is engaged, they are considered married.
I believe that in my past rabbinic studies that this was clarified in the Talmud.
It's been a long time ago, I can't quote anything specifically.

I agree with you that it is in Jewish tradition but Sodom is not Jewish. In Sodom, they have a different tradition of male residents raping male strangers visiting the city publicly.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It should be obvious that there were heteralsexual people there or the city would have just died out.
Their sin was that they just put up with or just excepted the homosexual lifestyle, much as today.
The sons-in-laws laughed and didn't believe that God would judge them, much as people today.
This was their sin.
There's nothing that proves they were homosexual, only your desire to find an answer.

 

[stovebolts]

A plain reading of the scriptures makes it clear.

Lot had more than two daughters.

 

[felix]

A plain reading of the scriptures makes it clear.

Lot had more than two daughters.

Which is why I am asking, why did Lot not warn his married daughters, if he had more than 2 but just the sons-in-law?

 

[stovebolts]

Good question and I could only answer by saying that culturally, the man was the head of the house. It was up to the husbands to care for his married daughters. Yet the texts state that they did not take Lot's warning seriously.

 

[felix]

Good question and I could only answer by saying that culturally, the man was the head of the house. It was up to the husbands to care for his married daughters. Yet the texts state that they did not take Lot's warning seriously.

The angel specifically mentions in Genesis 19:12 "Son-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whomever you have in the city—take [them] out of this place". But Lot goes only to sons-in-law.

 

[felix]

Good question and I could only answer by saying that culturally, the man was the head of the house. It was up to the husbands to care for his married daughters. Yet the texts state that they did not take Lot's warning seriously.

The angel specifically mentions in Genesis 19:12 "Son-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whomever you have in the city—take [them] out of this place". But Lot goes only to sons-in-law.

 

[stovebolts]

The angel specifically mentions in Genesis 19:12 "Son-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whomever you have in the city—take [them] out of this place". But Lot goes only to sons-in-law.

Yes it does, doesn't it.

We know that Lot has two daughters in the house as scripture already states. By way of what the Angel says it appears that Lot also has sons in the city, as well as daughters who are married. When I read, Son-in-law and your daughters I immediately think that the daughters in that passage are referring to those who are married which would make their husbands Lot's son-in-law. Why? Because in verse 14 the texts say, So Lot went forth and spoke to his sons-in-law. Went forth would be leaving his home.

But verse 14 also says, the suitors of his daughters. The KJV says, who married his daughters.

Is it possible that the "whomever you have in the city" could be taken as grand children?

You know, not to change the subject, but I wonder if this is one reason why Lot's wife looks back... This thought just now occurred to me... and I know it goes against the grain of orthodoxy regarding that verse.

 

[handy]

Could it just be that Lot was a pretty chauvinistic guy of his time and place and really didn't value his daughters... This would explain why he went to the sons-in-law (although the simplest explanation for that was that they were the heads of their household, so it would be their decision whether or not to leave) as well as offering up his two remaining virgin daughters.

We tend to think of how much we would love and cherish our daughters... We only have to read the reports of how daughters are treated in places like Afghanistan today to see that daughters aren't always treated so well.

 

[felix]

Could it just be that Lot was a pretty chauvinistic guy of his time and place and really didn't value his daughters... This would explain why he went to the sons-in-law (although the simplest explanation for that was that they were the heads of their household, so it would be their decision whether or not to leave) as well as offering up his two remaining virgin daughters.

We tend to think of how much we would love and cherish our daughters... We only have to read the reports of how daughters are treated in places like Afghanistan today to see that daughters aren't always treated so well.

But Scripture calls Lot as righteous. Even in the law, delivering daughters to be raped would be a grave sin.

 

[stovebolts]

I agree Felix. But I try to keep in mind that Lot wasn't under the law and neither was Abram. Remember, the law states you can't marry your sister, yet Abram married his sister. Also, child sacrifice was against the Law too, yet Abram willingly and obediently went to sacrifice his only son whom he loved.

Isaac was spared, and so was Lot's daughters. But I would add that Abram was a man of hospitality. We see this in so many places. Lot was also a man of hospitality as seen by his willingness to care for strangers in need.

 

[handy]

Do the Scriptures really tell us that Lot was righteous? If so, can someone supply the reference. I don't think that God saved Lot because Lot was righteous, but rather on Abraham's account.
Genesis 19:29 "Thus it came about, when God destroyed the cities of the valley, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot lived."

 

[Claudya]

Could it just be that Lot was a pretty chauvinistic guy of his time and place and really didn't value his daughters...

Could be, and probably was. Women were regarded to be property by most men in that day and age. And still are today in many places on earth.

But I think there's another issue here... Lot and his family had stayed with the people of Sodom and Gomorrah for a long time and lived in that climate of boundless sexuality, abuse and violence. It would be hard for anyone not to get corrupted in a place like that. Later in Lot's story we learn that his two daughters, the ones he was so ready to sacrifice to the rape mob, didn't hesitate to rape their own father. So they weren't all that innocent themselves. It's not just a story of chauvinism, it's a story about a traumatised and messed up family in a cruel world.

Why God called them righteous I have no idea, but He calls us righteous, too, and we all know how evil we are inside our hearts. So it's also a story of how graciously God can forgive and disregard our depravity.