Make Peace with my Brothers....

[RadicalReformer]

I wrote in another forum that one must be very careful when entering into "debates". You see, in a debate, the truth is actually irrelevant. The idea for "winning" a debate is presenting the best, most logical argument. Now, we would like to believe that the best and most logical argument would in fact be the "Truth" - however, that doesn't always work out that way.

In a debate, it is about the self, not the truth. The "ego" takes over, the selfish ambitions, and desire to be "right" takes over. Truth is usually left on the corner.

Over the past months, I have wronged my brothers and sisters in Christ who follow the Catholic tradition. In my zeal to debate, I have used words that looking back were wrong - words meant to deliver a "verbal right hook." It was said of me one time by a member on this forum that I might be a pacifist, but I had a vicious "verbal upper-cut". Let me say, that today - I am not too proud of that.

In our zeal to defend our beliefs and our faith traditions, we must be careful not to loose site of our goal of unity in truth, and ultimately to be Christ-like.

Is God big-enough to allow for various faith traditions - is one "Right" and the others "wrong"? Does God meet us where we are at, and allows us to follow a faith tradition, safe in His bosom, knowing that this is the path we need to take to follow Him? I don't know. I would like to think that He is, and that He wants us to view each other as Brothers and Sisters in the Body of Christ, regardless of our "faith traditions" or "practices".

Are there cults, sure. Are there those who use the Scripture, use Christianity for their own gain, their own deceit, you bet. For most of us, they are easy to spot.

While in Bible college, the biggest debate on campus was between Calvinism and Armienism (sp?). While I had my opinions, I realized that the reason I agreed with one over the other, wasn't so much that it was how God actually operated, but rather how God used it to show me His grace and mercy, I agreed with it because it was the 'best' way that I could understand the wonder of the gift of salvation.

Ultimately, there is the Truth. Ultimately there is a 'right and wrong' with doctrine. As I look at a pair of train tracks, I see "calvinism" and "armienism" on either track - and as I look at the horizon, where it appears that the two tracks meet - there is where God is.

Be careful how you defend your beliefs - because it very well may be turning others "off".

I say this to apologize to my Catholic brothers and sisters. Hoepfully, some day that you too will see me as a brother in Christ - because my fear is that there are those who do not see us "non-Catholics" as a brother or sister in Christ.

 

[Relic]

I wrote in another forum that one must be very careful when entering into "debates". You see, in a debate, the truth is actually irrelevant. The idea for "winning" a debate is presenting the best, most logical argument. Now, we would like to believe that the best and most logical argument would in fact be the "Truth" - however, that doesn't always work out that way.

In a debate, it is about the self, not the truth. The "ego" takes over, the selfish ambitions, and desire to be "right" takes over. Truth is usually left on the corner.
....

Whoa! And I thought you were speaking what you believed to be truth!

Wow, Radical, I never thought someone who would profess to be a Christian would actually make sport out of something so precious as what is presumed to be honest converstation in searching for the absolute truth, in searching out the thoughts and beliefs of each other. :-?

Well, at least you have the courage to admit that you should not have done what you did. I hope you now know that what one holds as truth should never be compromised "just for the sport of it" , for any debate, or for any game.

God Bless you for your confession and sincere apology. I hope you meant it for the non-catholics also.


.

 

[RadicalReformer]

Whoa! And I thought you were speaking what you believed to be truth!

Wow, Radical, I never thought someone who would profess to be a Christian would actually make sport out of something so precious as what is presumed to be honest converstation in searching for the absolute truth, in searching out the thoughts and beliefs of each other. :-?

Well, at least you have the courage to admit that you should not have done what you did. I hope you now know that what one holds as truth should never be compromised "just for the sport of it" , for any debate, or for any game.

God Bless you for your confession and sincere apology. I hope you meant it for the non-catholics also.


.

*sigh*... I suppose I need to clarify. Relic, have you ever participated in a formal debate (ie: like a Presidential debate, or debate team in school?) The winner is the one who provides a more convincing argument. While the individual presenting it, probably believes his or her position to be true, it is always that way.

For example, in a formal debate (like debate team), you did not always get to pick what "side" you want to present. Therefore, it could be possible for an debate team from an African-American college to have to defend the practice of slavery.

How you have twisted my words to make them appear to mean something that they did not. It is not that I made it into a "sport", but rather in my zeal to defend what I believe is to be true, if I did so in a way that was offensive to others by the words that I used, then I was in error. If I did so in a way that actually hurt someone else, then I was in error. If I was being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, then I was in error.

This post was directed to and for my brothers and sisters in Christ in the Catholic church, and the discussions/debates that took place in the RC/Orthodox sub-forum. If I did not make that clear in my original post, forgive me... This post had nothing to do with other posts made here. For example, our "discussion" in the political forums, Relic, I still believe you are incorrect.

 

[Rick W]

Good post RR. :smt023

 

[Relic]

I did not intend to twist your words as you say I did. I am not a malicious person to do such a thing just for the sake of doing so. It was just a misunderstanding on my part in the way in which you presented your example.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

.

 

[RadicalReformer]

I did not intend to twist your words as you say I did. I am not a malicious person to do such a thing just for the sake of doing so. It was just a misunderstanding on my part in the way in which you presented your example.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

.

Then in that case, I apologize for accusing you of "twisting". In the future, perhaps it would be best to seek an explanation first.

 

[Devekut]

What I think is probably a good maxim to abide by is this...

In any given discussion, we ourselves will never change one person's opinion.

Does this make discussion and debate futile? No, but it can become so. And I think this is what Rad is saying.

People, being independent, free individuals, do not re-shape their opinions by dictation from another. In fact, we have a remarkable tendency to think we have discovered our opinions rather than recieved them. But this is because we must "ingest" them.

I know myself how long it took me to return home (or perhaps only for the first time) and embrace the Christian Faith. Now, many people and innumerable factors beyond myself contributed to this change of heart (none the least of which was God!). Yet, still in my immaturity, it was almost as though I thought that I had discovered the Christian Faith. I had discovered nothing. Yet...in a sense, and only insofar as my own individual world is concerned, I had made a very great discovery.

This, I think, is a general human tendency. For a conviction to truly be our own, we need to feel that, in a sense, it has become our own. We never switch on the spot, it slowly creeps on us and becomes part of us and one day, we say, "yes, this is where I am".

We should all keep this in mind in our debates. Thanks Rad for this post. I apologize if I have said things to injure my other brothers and sisters as well. We do need a great deal more of peace here between one another as Christians of multiple orientations.

Peace in Christ,
Jordan.

 

[RadicalReformer]

To be honest Devekut, for a second there I am not sure I even know what I was trying to post.

I think in a nutshell, HOW we convey is almost as important as WHAT we are trying to convey.

Anyways, I hope that there is peace between me and those whom I might have offended from the Catholic tradition. The hand is extended - shake it or not, I am at peace.

Wish you all well....

Living out the faith,
--RR