[_ Old Earth _] Miracles...

[Blazin Bones]

What do you think, can miracles happen?

 

[Featherbop]

By what definition(s)?

 

[Tobael]

What do you think, can miracles happen?

If we believe the Scriptures then we have to say yes. There are some who say otherwise, i.e. that we can believe the message of the Gospel without believing that the miracles actually happened. What they don't realise is that the miracles are part of the message, that the Kingdom of God is here and now active in the world. Jesus reveals the Kingdom in Himself through the signs of the messianic age that the miracles provide: the deaf hear, the blind see, etc, in fulfilment of Isaiah. (cf. Matthew 11:5)

Miracles also happen in the modern Church, or rather Jesus still works His miracles in the Church. This is in keeping with His being God and the Master of Creation. Their primary purpose is to be signs of the Kingdom, rather than proving that God exists.

Tobael

 

[Quath]

This is a tough question because I am not sure what a miracle is.

For example, say there were some people praying for some rain. So some guys get in a plane and seed a cloud and it rains. Was it a miracle? What if they prayed to God and God seeded a cloud, was it a miracle then?

Are miracles violations of the laws of physics as we know them?

Quath

 

[reznwerks]

miracles

The term miracle is used broadly and loosely but I think a true miracle would be a violation of the laws of nature as we know them. That being said strange things have happened but we may not know all the variables which may have been present which produced the witnessed claim so I would say no to true miracles happening.

 

[keebs]

I said that I don't know, just because it really depends on what you view as a miracle. I could find $5 on the street and consider it luck, but somebody else would call it a miracle. It's all subjective.

 

[ThinkerMan]

I said that I don't know, just because it really depends on what you view as a miracle. I could find $5 on the street and consider it luck, but somebody else would call it a miracle. It's all subjective.

I DID find over $300 on the side of the road a few months ago.

Not a soul around. Perhaps it was a miracle. But the driver I bought using the money hasn't helped my drive one bit, I still slice all over the place.....so perhaps it wasn't much of a miracle.

If miracles mean something "out of the ordinary", then yes, I would believe they occur. Any distribution of events and probabilities will create a bell-curve with some seemingly inprobable occurances.

If miracles mean a violation of the laws of physics, then I would say no.

 

[Sabazi]

What's your definition of miracle, Brutus?

 

[keebs]

If miracles mean a violation of the laws of physics, then I would say no.

Because the laws of physics can't be violated. If we discover something contrary to our current theories on physics, we modify them, but the actual laws of physics are never violated.

 

[DivineNames]

Are miracles violations of the laws of physics as we know them?

Quath

I would say they would have to be inexplicable in principle, not merely that the supposed miracle can not be accounted for by the laws of physics "as we know them".

 

[DivineNames]

David Hume's definition-

"A miracle may be accurately defined as a transgression of a law of nature by a particular volition of the Deity, or by the interposition of some invisible agent."


Some philosophers have wished to add that the event must be beneficial or have "religious significance" to qualify as a miracle. Not everyone would agree with the idea of miracles "violating" laws of nature.

 

[hopefearmercy]

wills of God

Everything happens that is supposed to happen. Ordainment is one thing that no one can escape. God's will will always be done....whether you believe He is the cause or not. In Islam we can explain the wills of God.

hopefearmercy

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Miracle is an odd thing to define. 3000 years ago it would be talking to someone who was 8000 miles away, seeing the dead walk, talk and fight with Darth Vader(Alec Guiness is dead, yet when you watch Star Wars, he is alive, miraculous!), or making a glass ball emit light, or making crops and livestock that grow to sizes that they could never do before.
To quote Arthur C Clarke, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

In 500 years we might be able to talk to people a light year away in real time, disintegrate one place and reintegrate another, walk through a virtual world that exists within computers, live within computers, shirking our mortal vessals etc etc.

Miracle is highly subjective, because it's atributing to a deity some action that seems physically impossible. It's a sort of bet, 3000 years ago they were betting that you couldn't keep water cold in the desert, they lost the bet.
Declaring something a miracle is a risky business, because in all likelihood, you'll be proven wrong by time and tide.

Oh, and another good quote from Clarke "If there are any gods whose chief concern is man, they can't be very important gods."

 

[peace4all]

a miracle is pushing a square through a circle hole..

it is impossible.

when it happens, I will convert though :P

 

[allofus]

I said I don't know because I wasn't thinking of the miracles in the bible, rather I was thinking in terms of miracles today and I don't know your definition of miracle and I simply am not sure that true miracles happen today.

 

[Featherbop]

a miracle is pushing a square through a circle hole..

it is impossible.

when it happens, I will convert though :P

That is easy to do. Just get a larger hole than a square....