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Mr. Turner reads IHOP's boss...

Willie T

A man who isn't as smart as others "know" they are
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I just read a quote from the founder of an internationally known and recognized "prayer" ministry that needs a bit of discussing. Here's the quote:

"Jesus himself will kill multitudes in the end, and many in the church will become offended when he does."

First of all, this is a quote from an internationally known leader who gets airtime on major Christian networks, columns in major Christian publications, and who is adored and followed by millions of believers worldwide. Therefore, this is not a side issue, but a major, MAJOR, *MAJOR* issue, and mainly because this particular group believes that they and those who follow their model of prayer and worship, will be instrumental in bringing this version of Jesus back to planet earth. This means that their prayers are not simply for "revival", the transformation of society, or the betterment of mankind, but ultimately are for the purpose of opening the door for a murdering messiah to pounce on the planet like a bloodthirsty animal.

That should bother you.

Second, this view is based upon a hyper literal, and therefore flawed, reading of the book of the Revelation, which belongs to a genre of literature called apocalypse, which purposely employs extremely cartoon-ish and metaphoric imagery in order to point to real world events that don't look nearly as dramatic as the writing would suggest. This particular point made by this leader is based upon a misreading of Revelation 19, which pictures Jesus as a conquering warrior, drenched in blood and waging war against the godless.

The problem with his interpretation is that this imagery seems to be purposely subversive, a.) because Jesus is said to be drenched in blood prior to battle, unlike the figure found in Isaiah 63, who comes up from battle drenched in blood. This blood staining the garment of the Jesus of the Revelation is not that of his enemies, but His own, freely given for all, b.) because though it is said that Jesus will make war against the nations, the means by which He does it is with a sword proceeding from His mouth, meaning that He is not literally striking down or slaughtering anyone, but proclaiming a message that destroys the earthly power of their violent empires, c.) because though He is said to "strike down nations", the next line states that He will "shepherd them with a rod of iron". If He will literally slay these nations and wage physical war against them, how will He also shepherd them?

Clearly, based upon its genre, we know that the Revelation is meant to be taken figuratively, which disallows for a literal interpretation of chapter 19. The imagery used in the scenario likewise seems to be pointing to a Jesus who "wages wars" with the violent powers of the earth by violently opposing their violence. While they oppose Him with violence and sword, He comes only proclaiming a message. While they seek to dominate through violence and fear, He comes to shepherd. This is the same Jesus, after all, who spoke forth the sermon on the mount! This is the same Jesus who instructed us to love our enemies, and who told us that when we responded to our persecutors with kindness and mercy, we look like our heavenly Father! Are we *really* to believe that Jesus will all of a sudden decide that going Terminator on the hinder parts of His enemies is the better way?

Of course not.

The Revelation does not seek to reveal a Jesus other than the One Who had already revealed Himself, it simply seeks to reveal how this same Jesus looks and responds to the violence of empire, and of persecution by the powers that be.

I cannot think of a more anti-Christ thing to say about Jesus than that He is returning to murder millions. It's bad Theology, Christology and eschatology, and should not only be rejected, but publicly and passionately refuted.
 
It will be interesting to see who responds to this.
 
Every IHOP i have even been to is not good maybe there is a connection... :tongue
 
I don't think we have anyone here who espouses DOMINIONISM
 
While I have met Mike Bickle, I don't really know the man like my KC family does. Three of them went to school with him. They are a bit Leary of him. But, of course, they are Presbyterians.
 
I remember a debate once but those people are not here anymore.
oh we do. I cant name them but we have had two that I know of. aka post mil types are usually this.

uhm so jesus when he cometh to judge man isn't? ok that doesn't line up with his statements in the parables.
 
I don't understand the thread title - but I DO know that i don't like IHOP restaurants very much.
 
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