My Church Practices Backsliding

[Rockytopva]

I believe the churches as seven...

1. Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
2. Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
3. Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
4. Thyatira -Catholicism formed in this time
5. Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - Elegant yet hard and rigid
6. Philadephia - The Great Awakening formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
7. Laodica - Rich, increased with goods, and have need of nothing?

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

As I am not worthy to open and read the book I cannot be sure of the exact boundaries. I believe the seals seal each movement (the candlestick) in which the stars are the ministers thereof. As a star can exist in a constellation I believe the possibility of millions of ministers within each movement.

The Great Awakening - "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out:" - Revelation 3:12

I go to churches I consider of the Great Awakening but am annoyed of the fact that they cannot keep the revival going. I believe the church of the Great Awakening basically has three experiences...

1. Salvation - Very easy! Simply acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ
2. Sanctification - The Christ formed on the inside. If not... Come back tomorrow night!
3. Spiritual Gifts - I believe every one has their own unique gift

I have met people I would consider sanctified and can look inside their character and find nothing but pure goodness. But in this day and time... I sense instability of character that worries me. I also find myself visiting churches I believe of Sardisean nature. In which though not as tender of spirit, much more steadfast. I would even go on to say that the difference between the Sardisean and the Philadelphian...

The Sardisean - Does not believe in backsliding
The Philadelphian - Practices it!

Which... Again... Is very annoying as I can't put much weight on people of Philadelphian type people these days. It is almost to the point these days of reminding me of a scripture in Isaiah...

Lo, thou trustest in the staff of this broken reed, on Egypt; whereon if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all that trust in him. - Isaiah 36:6

All of this church splitting and falling away is to me hurtful. And the ease of carnality destructive. I have found myself visiting Southern Baptist and Lutheran churches more and more these days. Interesting, though, that the Southern Baptist calls itself "Northstar" and you have to dig deep to find their roots Southern Baptist. A good church though and I enjoy the professional and clean type people. They do very well having thousands in attendance...

 

[Hidden In Him]

All of this church splitting and falling away is to me hurtful. And the ease of carnality destructive. I have found myself visiting Southern Baptist and Lutheran churches more and more these days. Interesting, though, that the Southern Baptist calls itself "Northstar" and you have to dig deep to find their roots Southern Baptist. A good church though and I enjoy the professional and clean type people. They do very well having thousands in attendance...

Yeah, I was like this back in my college days. The Assembly church I was attending:

A. wasn't that focused on the baptism in the Holy Spirit like they should have been, and
B. wasn't preaching holiness of conduct either, at least where it concerns the standards they were setting and holding the congregation to.

So I drifted to a Baptist church for a time. I had little in common with the Baptists when it came to their teachings on the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but what is the point of attending a church when their standards of behavior don't mesh with true Pentecostalism? It becomes a sham.

I'm thankful that my wife's Hispanic church (independent Pentecostal) maintains better standards on both doctrine and practice, as I found out in my college days that that's not always the case.

 

[Rockytopva]

I feel myself a product of the Great Awakening and have even enjoyed Francis Asbury type revivals within the Baptist church as well as Pentecostal Holiness. When reading into what I would consider the products of the Great Awakening I find much splits and disturbing news. If I had any advice for those type churches it would be that they were not supposed to be a denomination to begin with. They were supposed to have been an elite group within the established denomination. As Wesley wrote Asbury...

LONDON
September 20, 1788


My Dear Brother:

There is, indeed, a wide difference between the relation wherein you stand to the Americans and the relation wherein I stand to all the Methodists. You are the elder brother of the American Methodists: I am under God the father of the whole family. Therefore I naturally care for you all in a manner no other persons can do. Therefore I in a measure provide for you all; for the supplies which Dr. Coke provides for you, he could not provide were it not for me, were it not that I not only permit him to collect but also support him in so doing.

But in one point, my dear brother, I am a little afraid both the Doctor and you differ from me. I study to be little: you study to be great. I creep; you strut along. I found a school: you a college! [Cokesbury College] nay, and call it after your own names! 0 beware, do not seek to be something! Let me be nothing, and "Christ be all in all!"

One instance of this, of your greatness, has given me great concern. How can you, how dare you suffer yourself to be called Bishop? I shudder, I start at the very thought! Men may call me a knave or a fool, a rascal, a scoundrel, and I am content; but they shall never by my consent call me Bishop! For my sake, for God's sake, for Christ's sake put a full end to this! Let the Presbyterians do what they please, but let the Methodists know their calling better.

Thus, my dear Franky, I have told you all that is in my heart. And let this, when I am no more seen, bear witness how sincerely I am Your affectionate friend and brother,

John Wesley

And... If this makes sense.... I would not want to read any so called "Book of Discipline" outside of the Rev. Thomas Coke and the Rev. Francis Asbury. Who put much effort into the churches of the Great Awakening. I bought a Bible because of the nice leather cover. In looking in the Bible and trying to follow ministers in their sermon I am annoyed that this bible is basically half scripture and half commentary. Next time I buy a Bible I would want to make sure that any commentary is brief and not overshadowing the scripture.

This is my same feeling on the "Book of Discipline." If I were to buy a "Book of Discipline" I would want it as penned by the early leaders of the church. I would not want one with any modern day commentary. Especially from a so-called bishop. In which I would fear would attempt to justify the backsliding within the church.

 

[DavidT]

A close reading of what Lord Jesus said in each of His 7 Messages to the 7 Churches should reveal there are end time events He pointed to with them. And one should especially notice by 'simple reading' of those 7 Messages that only the 2 Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia He had no problem with.

So why allow men's doctrines that are like the many baskets of 'fragments' gathered up after the feeding of the multitudes to dictate ideas that go against those 7 Messages that are not that difficult to understand? The 1830's Darbyite dispensationalist theories ruin the meat of those 7 Messages by Christ.

Christ's 7 Messages to the 7 Churches represent 7 types... of Churches that exist from John's day all the way to the end of this world. They are still today representative of things going on in types of Churches even for today. One can look at Christ's Message for each one and discover what kind... of Church they are in today.

And the 2 Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia, which Christ had no problem with, had a doctrine that Jesus did not mention with any of the other 5 Churches. These 2 understood about those who 'say'... they are Jews, but are not, and are the "synagogue of Satan".

When I ask brethren just who is that "synagogue of Satan", they most often claim they are Jews, like real Jews of lineage of the "house of Judah" (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). But that is not who the "synagogue of Satan" is, for even true Jews believe in God and that Messiah would come; most of them have simply been blinded by God about Christ so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles (Rom.11).

The real "synagogue of Satan" is about Satan's followers that 'know' they belong to Satan and worship him. They crept in among Judah from the Canaanites long ago, the very nations which God told the children of Israel to destroy when coming into the lands of Canaan. They became bondservants in Israel first, taking over some of the temple duties of the Levites, then slowly crept into the Israelite priesthood, and even into the office of scribes of Israel. Yet they have NO genealogical heritage of the literal seed of Israel. This is why the very last verse of Zechariah 14 shows they will be kicked out of the house of God in final.