[_ Old Earth _] Neat scientific phenomenon which God uses...

[cyberjosh]

I've had some pet theories over the last couple years of trying to use phenomena in nature and science to shed light a little on supernatural occurances or realities in the Bible. Not to say it can be accounted for solely by science, but that such phenomenon may be naturally present but supernaturally enacted and enhanced. By far the coolest thing I have ever seen, which can shed some light on some amazing descriptions of God riding on the clouds - or being enveloped in a cloud, is jet condensation.

Look these awesome pictures, with the verses I'll put between them, of "Jet condensation" that occurs when jets travel at high speeds, reducing the pressure and temperature around them thus forming a following cloud. God most certainly does not have to travel fast to make such a cloud but the principle is astounding. And actually a couple verses do say that God would travel swiftly (or speed) on the clouds:

"Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt" (Isaiah 19:1)

"He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters; He makes the clouds His chariot; He walks upon the wings of the wind" (Psalm 104:3)

"He bowed the heavens also, and came down; With thick darkness under His feet. He rode upon a cherub and flew; And He sped upon the wings of the wind." (Psalm 18:9-10)

"You will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN" (Matthew 26:64)

"BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him" (Revelation 1:7)

"The LORD descended in the cloud and stood there with him as he called upon the name of the LORD. " (Exodus 34:5)

"As I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal in the midst of the fire." (Ezekiel 1:4)

Notice that there is also a rainbow in these clouds:

"And there was a radiance around Him. As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD" (Ezekiel 1:27-28)

"And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance. " (Revelation 4:3)

"I saw another strong angel coming down out of heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was upon his head, and his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire" (Revelation 10:1)

How do you like them apples? 8-) Pretty cool, no?

If you have any other ideas or theories about scientific phenomenon which God uses please, by all means, post your observations/thought here.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Quath]

I am not quote sure of what you are saying. Are you saying that God set up the physics so that clouds would for so he could talk about them later on? Or are you saying that the cloud with the jet can only be fully explained by assuming that we lack some scientific information?

Finding "God" in nature is usually the Islamic thing. They have many websites devoted to it like this one. Christians typically use healing miracles in a similar manner.

 

[cyberjosh]

Are you saying that God set up the physics so that clouds would for so he could talk about them later on? Or are you saying that the cloud with the jet can only be fully explained by assuming that we lack some scientific information?

Definately no to the last one. As for the first one I wouldn't set up the causality exactly like that. God wouldn't make a scientific phenomenon just so he could use it in some way in the future - though certainly God designed scientific phenomenon for a reason. Really the only point of this thread was to show how natural scientific phenomenon can parallel some of the so-called "amazing/impossible" acts of God (thus making people realise that it is a little more reasonable to imagine). But in this you must accept that the supernatural does infact exist, for I do not attribute things such as God riding on the clouds as an entirely scientific phenomenon (and I said as much in my OP).

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Quath]

I find quantum mechanics pretty errie. One of the weird things is that quantum mechanics says that cause/effect is not reality. We can do experiments that changes the past. However, we can't send information to the past. This is so counterintuitative that Einstein didn't want to believe it.

 

[cyberjosh]

I find quantum mechanics pretty errie. One of the weird things is that quantum mechanics says that cause/effect is not reality. We can do experiments that changes the past. However, we can't send information to the past. This is so counterintuitative that Einstein didn't want to believe it.

Quantum mechanics involves "spooky" counter-intuative forces that interact on the subatomic level. One consequence of quantum mechanics is the paradoxial "communication" between subatomic particles that have a spin - the only thing is, that we cannot know which spin (negative or positive - half spin, or whole spin) a particular particle has until it is observed. The Paradox takes place in the thought experiment of a spliting an atom which produces two quantum particles which fly opposite directions at near the speed of light. Now scientifically the particles must have opposite spin to compliment one another. The paradox states that once you view one of the particles and determine its spin the other particle will instantaneously (despite how far away it is - even violating the law of forces not exceeding the speed of light) cause the other particle to have the opposite spin. Einstien called this "spooky actions at a distance" and could not wrap his head around it. He spent the last years of his life trying to reconcile his Relativity Theory with Quantum Physics and was unsuccessful! Today research into Super String Theory is attempting to try to bridge this but no definate evidence has yet been gleaned from Super String theory.

But even if scientists do find an underlying unification of all the forces, it would only serve to confirm what the Bible had said all along:

"He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." (Colossians 1:17)

"And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power" (Hebrews 1:3)

"If He should determine to do so, If He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath, All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust." (Job 34:14-15)

In other words God's Spirit is what holds all things, large and elemental, together - by his power, and if he were to remove his Spirit all things would distintegrate and break down into their base elements (another Big Bang - or maybe what Scientists call the "Big Crunch"). God is the one who sustains an underlying force to all things. Not saying God is in all things (bordering on pantheism) but rather that he sustains all things by the power of his Spirit, and without his Spirit (if he were to remove his Spirit) things would no longer be able to hold together (and even Quantam Physicists can tell you that the Quantum Particles in an atom are very delicately and amazingly balanced, thus is also why the most explosive elements are unstable & radioactive [which is why they are used in nukes]). God is what keep that careful & amazing balance going.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Barbarian]

Um, so when God approaches, He will be exceeding Mach 1?

Why?

 

[cyberjosh]

Um, so when God approaches, He will be exceeding Mach 1?

Why?

You obviously didn't read my OP, because I answered that question.

~Josh

 

[Barbarian]

Um, no. Nothing about faster than the speed of sound.

 

[unred typo]

Cybershark, that’s pretty cool. I believe it says Jesus will return in the twinkling of an eye, so how fast is that, Barbarian?

 

[Barbarian]

When my eye twinkles, it doesn't break the sound barrier. At least when theologians argued how many angels could dance on the head of a pin, they had a point to it.

We should avoid making up such "just-so" stories.

 

[mondar]

Um, so when God approaches, He will be exceeding Mach 1?

Why?

God does not approach, he is already there.

 

[cyberjosh]

Cybershark, that’s pretty cool.

Yeah, I know. Thanks. It's an interesting pet theory of mine.

 

[Vic C.]

I for one, enjoyed the photos. Thanks Josh!

 

[cyberjosh]

I saw something else on TV recently which made me think of another natural phenomenon which seems remarkably similar to a Biblical description which is deemed by some as "fanciful". Because of the huge forest fire in California they were talking about how fire tornados work to lift fire off the gound, relocate, set back down and catch something else on fire. That reminds me of the "pillar of fire" that God lead the Israelites with by night in the desert, and also the pillar of fire that consumed Elijah's sacrifice when he challenged the priests of Baal. I found that as yet another neat phenomenon which inspires awe, and you'd think either the Hebrews were as scientifically advanced as us all the way back then to know what a fire tornado was and exploit the phenomenon to make it sound supernatural, or it really happened and God created a real pillar of fire. I vote for the last one.

~Josh