[_ Old Earth _] No creation can be superior to its creator

[Heidi]

This is an irrevocable truth that cannot be altered. Every creation has to have a creator. There is nothing that man has created that he cannot also destory. Therefore, every creation is at the mercy of its creator. We humans exist. We got here somehow. We could not have therefore come from anything inferior because everything in this world has a purpose. Every building, object, plant, animal, has a design and a purpose in the universe. And every design presupposes a designer or it wouldn't be a design! But those who rebel against God use different words for design even though they mean the same thing. They are not fooling people by semantics except others who can be easily fooled.

So since every creation of man is at the mercy of man, so is man at the mercy of his creator, because without his creator, he could not exist. A creation originates in the mind of the creator which by definition, makes the creator superior to even conceive of his creation! And creations are always clueless as to the intelligence of their creator.

All creators know the weaknesses of their creations much better than their creations know them because the creator designed them in the first place. This is why Jesus says; "no student can be greater than his teacher" because if the student eventually does know more than his teacher, then his teacher would no longer be his teacher.

Therefore, the traits of an ape or primate can never produce the traits of a human being because they never existed in the primate to begin with! If they had, then the primate wouldn't be a primate, he would be at least as complex and intelligent as his offspring. But evolutionists claim the traits that humans have came out of thin air to the offspring. They use the word "mutation" when that's impossible because mutation can only occur on characteristics already present in a cell, not those which are not present. And that is why no mutant is ever consider superior to its parents, but instead, an aberration.

 

[Guest]

We created nuclear weapons, and they may very well prove to be greater than us some day.

Are you also saying that children can never do better than their parents? That they can't be smarter, more athletic, etc.?

 

[Loren Michael]

i know it's absolute fantasy, but "The Matrix" begs to differ.

ooh, ooh, and the coolest way to end all life on earth- the "grey goo" cloud of nanobots.

anyways, "superior" is always so subjectve. we "create" cars that are superior in speed, we "create" computers taht can preform calculations faster than any human mind (and to a greater level of detail!) and like thanatos said, we "create" nuclear weapons that can obliterate any number of us. i don't think it's outside the realm of possibility to have humans "create" a lifeform that is superior to humans, with respect to genetics or what have you.

i accept that nothing can be greater than God. that's pretty much written into the definition of "God", but it's hardly an "irrevocable truth" for all beings under Him in creation.

where did you get that from, anyways?

EDIT: "Doomsday", the character that killed Superman. i know it's showing my nerd side, but a creator can easily intentionally make something to be superior to itself. to succeed where the creator has failed, and whatnot.

 

[Rick W]

They use the word "mutation" when that's impossible because mutation can only occur on characteristics already present in a cell, not those which are not present. And that is why no mutant is ever consider superior to its parents, but instead, an aberration.

Correct

As far as mutations are concerned I've yet to hear of a mutation that actually added something. Mutations are a diminutive form of the original resulting in somerthing less than the original. This is not to be confused with adaptation or speciation.
For example:
Two dogs can have the genes for both short fur or long fur. If the short-furred offspring are born in a cold climate they die, the long furred offspring survive, survival of the fittest. In such a climate the short-furred genes with each succesive parent would be supressed, or "weeded out" causing a dominance of the long-furred gene. After a given time the short-furred gene may become so suppressed as to not exist at all. In this case the short-furred gene is lost to guarantee the survival of the species. However, that cold-climate species could not adapt "backward" to a warmer climate since the short-furred gene is gone (mutated) and extinction of that species would result if the climate changed. So the "mutation" of the lose of information for short fur was beneficial for the cold-climate species of the original animal.

 

[Heidi]

We created nuclear weapons, and they may very well prove to be greater than us some day.

Are you also saying that children can never do better than their parents? That they can't be smarter, more athletic, etc.?

All we haveto do is defuse them. Therefore, if they destroy us one day, it will be by man's choice.

Children are always at the mercy of their parents. And if their parents keep them safe, they will grow into adulthood. Their parents always have the option of destroying them and if they choose not to, the child will survive.

 

[jwu]

And if their parents keep them safe, they will grow into adulthood. Their parents always have the option of destroying them and if they choose not to, the child will survive.

And no grown up child is ever smarter, stronger, more healthy and more beautiful (well...whatever you would call "superior") than its parents were at the same age?

As far as mutations are concerned I've yet to hear of a mutation that actually added something. Mutations are a diminutive form of the original resulting in somerthing less than the original.

How about a mutation which allows some being to digest a different type of food which wasn't edible at all before? Would that count?

 

[Heidi]

And if their parents keep them safe, they will grow into adulthood. Their parents always have the option of destroying them and if they choose not to, the child will survive.

And no grown up child is ever smarter, stronger, more healthy and more beautiful (well...whatever you would call "superior") than its parents were at the same age?

[quote:0ae4d]As far as mutations are concerned I've yet to hear of a mutation that actually added something. Mutations are a diminutive form of the original resulting in somerthing less than the original.

How about a mutation which allows some being to digest a different type of food which wasn't edible at all before? Would that count?[/quote:0ae4d]

You completely miss the fact that a baby is completely at the mercy of his parents and society. And if he grows up at all, it is by the choice of his creator, namely his parents and God. Therefore, he is not greater than his creators. His very existence is in their hands, nor can he destroy his parents unless his parents allow him to grow up to the point where he can.

 

[Quid]

And if their parents keep them safe, they will grow into adulthood. Their parents always have the option of destroying them and if they choose not to, the child will survive.

And no grown up child is ever smarter, stronger, more healthy and more beautiful (well...whatever you would call "superior") than its parents were at the same age?

[quote:cf5dc]As far as mutations are concerned I've yet to hear of a mutation that actually added something. Mutations are a diminutive form of the original resulting in somerthing less than the original.

How about a mutation which allows some being to digest a different type of food which wasn't edible at all before? Would that count?

You completely miss the fact that a baby is completely at the mercy of his parents and society. And if he grows up at all, it is by the choice of his creator, namely his parents and God. Therefore, he is not greater than his creators. His very existence is in their hands, nor can he destroy his parents unless his parents allow him to grow up to the point where he can. [/quote:cf5dc]
You seem to think the creation process stops at popping out the kid. All that makes is a baby.

First the parents make a baby. But over the next couple decades or so the parents will make a person. One quite possibly greater than them.

 

[Rick W]

I don't think offspring can be classified as "creations". Maybe "procreate" or "reproduce" are better definitions.

 

[kat]

The idea of a purpose is man-made.

 

[Quid]

I don't think offspring can be classified as "creations". Maybe "procreate" or "reproduce" are better definitions.

Reproducing is creating something.

 

[jwu]

You completely miss the fact that a baby is completely at the mercy of his parents and society. And if he grows up at all, it is by the choice of his creator, namely his parents and God. Therefore, he is not greater than his creators. His very existence is in their hands, nor can he destroy his parents unless his parents allow him to grow up to the point where he can.
_________________

So you define greatness as power to destroy...

However, that aside, this leaves two alternatives: Either it happens that the offspring becomes more powerful than the parents. Then, at that time it is greater than them. Just because at one time its life was at the whim of its parents doesn't mean that it will always count as inferior. Things can change.

The other possibility is that you insist on beings always being inferior to their parents because at some time they were inferior. Well, in that case that definition of greatness completely loses significance in regards to the matters of this forum. Because then greatness no longer depends on actual capabilities in any way.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Heidi I find your view here to be heretical. You're very clearly limiting big G to making universes less perfect than him/herself. If God is allpowerful then God could make a universe with more perfection than God.

 

[Heidi]

And if their parents keep them safe, they will grow into adulthood. Their parents always have the option of destroying them and if they choose not to, the child will survive.

And no grown up child is ever smarter, stronger, more healthy and more beautiful (well...whatever you would call "superior") than its parents were at the same age?

[quote:f7dd2]As far as mutations are concerned I've yet to hear of a mutation that actually added something. Mutations are a diminutive form of the original resulting in somerthing less than the original.

How about a mutation which allows some being to digest a different type of food which wasn't edible at all before? Would that count?

You completely miss the fact that a baby is completely at the mercy of his parents and society. And if he grows up at all, it is by the choice of his creator, namely his parents and God. Therefore, he is not greater than his creators. His very existence is in their hands, nor can he destroy his parents unless his parents allow him to grow up to the point where he can.

You seem to think the creation process stops at popping out the kid. All that makes is a baby.

First the parents make a baby. But over the next couple decades or so the parents will make a person. One quite possibly greater than them.[/quote:f7dd2]

Sorry, but a creator has complete control over his creation because he knows its strengths and weaknesses. He therefore realizes that if he lets his creation exist, then his creation could well destroy him. Therefore his creation is completely at the mercy of his creator. That holds true for children as well as atom bombs and computers. He is therefore in complete control of whether he allows his creation to exist.

And since no creation can ever be greater than its creator, there is a higher creator of man of which man is at the mercy and so are his children. So there is another factor in the equation other than man. And that's why the bible says;'Does the clay have the right to ask the potter; 'why did you mold me?" The very existence of the clay is only possible because of its creator and so is man's existence possible because of his creator because our design originated in the mind of our creator just like our creations originate in our minds.

 

[Quid]

And since no creation can ever be greater than its creator, there is a higher creator of man of which man is at the mercy and so are his children. So there is another factor in the equation other than man. And that's why the bible says;'Does the clay have the right to ask the potter; 'why did you mold me?" The very existence of the clay is only possible because of its creator and so is man's existence possible because of his creator because our design originated in the mind of our creator just like our creations originate in our minds.

Tell me Heidi, am I greater than my parents? Actually, at my age my dad was fitter than I am. My brother, however, is fitter and stronger than my father was at his age. Has he become stronger than his creator or not?

 

[Heidi]

And since no creation can ever be greater than its creator, there is a higher creator of man of which man is at the mercy and so are his children. So there is another factor in the equation other than man. And that's why the bible says;'Does the clay have the right to ask the potter; 'why did you mold me?" The very existence of the clay is only possible because of its creator and so is man's existence possible because of his creator because our design originated in the mind of our creator just like our creations originate in our minds.

Tell me Heidi, am I greater than my parents? Actually, at my age my dad was fitter than I am. My brother, however, is fitter and stronger than my father was at his age. Has he become stronger than his creator or not?

And to whom do you give credit for your creation and your life? Yourself? Apes?Do you think you could have survived without your creator? If so, please explain how. :o

 

[Quid]

I can now. You said I could never be greater than my parents. Are they no longer my parents when I become stronger and smarter?