Non - Denominational = No Value Church

[Soma-Sight]

The definition of an evangelical non - denominational church can be summed up in an example.

Take a dollar bill that you make yourself (draw old George on it and color in the green) and present it to but some milk or something.

You will soon see that it is COUNTERFEIT and has no intrinsic VALUE.

It may appear to be something, but when it somes for actual "fruits" you will see its fallacy!


Bottom Line - Avoid any Church claiming to be non - denominational (valueless) as its spirit holds no power!

 

[bibleberean]

That is a poorly presented and lousy argument. Can you find me a Luthern, Baptist, or a Roman Catholic church in the bible?

Dumb, just plain dumb... :roll:

 

[Diaconeo]

I happen to currently attend a non-denominational church. It is a 'bible' church, but it is not affiliated with any super denominational group. If you look closely at the early church, none of them were either. Local churches are autonomous from anyone group or hierarchy unless they willingly subject themselves to that larger umbrella group.

I don't know why you think a church has to belong to a denominational group in order to be a true fruit bearing church of Christ. I've seen plenty of 'dead' Methodist, Presbyteryian, Lutheran or yes, even Baptist churches. And I'm not talking merely methodic or baptistic churches, but those that actually belong to the particular large denominational group of that name. While there are advantages of being associated with a large denomination group, there are also disadvantages. Being a fruitful church is not a guarantee of of belonging to a denominational group. The fruit is revealed in the teaching of the local church, not in it's denominational affiliation.

In Christ,
Matthew

 

[Merry Menagerie]

I'm non-denominational because My Lord didn't belong to a denomination. There is only one Church and that's God's church with Christ being the chief cornerstone and it's this church that I'm a part of and it is of no denomination.

Your argument is empty! You will not find a denomination in the bible.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

The definition of an evangelical non - denominational church can be summed up in an example.

Take a dollar bill that you make yourself (draw old George on it and color in the green) and present it to but some milk or something.

You will soon see that it is COUNTERFEIT and has no intrinsic VALUE.

It may appear to be something, but when it somes for actual "fruits" you will see its fallacy!


Bottom Line - Avoid any Church claiming to be non - denominational (valueless) as its spirit holds no power!

Don't you attend the sda? Do you truly think that this is the definition of a denomination in the Christian Body?

 

[Henry]

The bible knows nothing of attending any church, the church is not a place that you can go to in the bible. And there is no denominations at all in the bible, only saints of God.

SDA or what ever it is all man made stuff, that is better left alone all together. Forget denominations they are all a bunch of @#Q*@(^!(^@#

 

[Orthodox Christian]

The bible knows nothing of attending any church, the church is not a place that you can go to in the bible.

If you are an adherent to the 'house church' concept, then church is a place you go to- a home, to be specific. Just as the buildings that Jews met in became known as synagogues because the the synagogues met there, so is are churches known for the churches (ekklesian) meet there.

And there is no denominations at all in the bible, only saints of God.

There were no denominations until after the 12th century. For those of you who have left and founded denominations and non-denominational denominations, I say get back in the One.

SDA or what ever it is all man made stuff, that is better left alone all together. Forget denominations they are all a bunch of @#Q*@(^!(^@#

Some people just have a way with symbols

 

[John the Baptist]

The definition of an evangelical non - denominational church can be summed up in an example.

Take a dollar bill that you make yourself (draw old George on it and color in the green) and present it to but some milk or something.

You will soon see that it is COUNTERFEIT and has no intrinsic VALUE.

It may appear to be something, but when it somes for actual "fruits" you will see its fallacy!


Bottom Line - Avoid any Church claiming to be non - denominational (valueless) as its spirit holds no power!

***********
Before making my comment, let me say that there are surely Christ's True sheep in all false folds! John 10:16

Now for my remark: First, there is only One FAITH! Ephesians 4:5. (not a person having faith, but one True Virgin Faith)

Second: The one faith still is useless as far as salvation is concerned without the Master of His one true faith inside of her!! Read Isaiah 5:3. And Joshua 7:12's last part of the verse. Even this TRUE FOLD IS CHRIST/LESS! (Good for what?? Luke 13:8's DUNGING, what is that?)

I say, that a person had best be sure that they are in the one true FOLD first, and then.. ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT CHRIST IS IN THAT FOLD!!! This is our duty, to be convinced! And if we are not? We best get with it. Read Christ's Words of Luke 12:47-48!

And to single out any one false fold? that has to be done using the Word of God.

True, there are a large number of Christ/less folds in Revelation 17:5 (Mother Rome & her daughters) who are the ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH is says in caps. Yet, again, there are many who have passed & who are still there yoked inside with these false doctrines who are sincere, and who have Christ in their hearts! But, if so, what will they do when they learn the Truth? Romans 8:14.

And that includes 7th Day Adventists! Even though they are not called Babylon, Christ tells me, that they will be judged by fare the WORSE than Sodom & Gomorrha in Matthew 10:15. Are these ones worse than Babylon??

Now for the Adventist fold or denomination: She does have Virgin doctrines as I see it. But as we see in Matthew 23:3, Christ told the other side of the Everlasting Gospel (of Revelation 14:6-10) when saying..
"All therefore, whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not after their works: for they say, and do not.[/"

Note that they were 7th Day Sabbath keepers. (in profession)

They were united in 'yoked membership'. (see John 9:22 & John 12:42-43)

They believed in the coming of the Messiah, just not this TRUE one!

They were tithe payers. (surely robbing God by supporting these ones though, huh! See Malachi 3:8 )

Yet, these pure Virgin doctrines saved no one, being alone! It takes both Christ and the Christ of His Everlasting Virgins to be in Christ True Virgin Fold!!

 

[SputnikBoy]

I'm getting sick to death of these SDA bashers! And, the silly thing is, those who are doing the bashing no doubt belong to a church whose doctrines are so removed from the scriptural truths that they should not be bashing anyone!

 

[John the Baptist]

I'm getting sick to death of these SDA bashers! And, the silly thing is, those who are doing the bashing no doubt belong to a church whose doctrines are so removed from the scriptural truths that they should not be bashing anyone!

*****
Hi, John here:
Are you speaking to my post??? If you are, you read like most SDA. In other word's, I love SDA Virgin doctrines. So does Christ, they are His!

So, why not go back & reread what was hated by Him?? The verse is given in Matthew 23:3 by Christ Himself, He gives the problem!!

Also a verse in Matthew 23:15 applies to you ones! So, it seems that Christ has a reason to be upset. Did you read the verse? Now notice in the Adventist Review, November 14, 2002 pg. 18 what your G.C. President reports:
"... preoccupation with numbers--measuring growth only in numerical terms. When I hear that 80,000 megacampaigns with an imported team, they don't even bother to write down names of those who are baptized---'we'll do it after they have been baptized for the third time'--- something is wrong."

Well, it is way beyond me how he (or anyone else) can escape the Revelation 18:4;s warning that his church gives to the world, & when then he himself is being an openly yoked 'Partaker' to it? Not to mention you all in 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 :o

One over seas evangelistic campaign was reported in a recent Adventist Trademark court case, (legal documentation) telling of around 1000 members baptised at one series of meetings, and one year later there were only 50 still going to church.

I think that it is past time for Adventist to lay aside evangelism and clean up their own 'open' garbage can! But that leaves you free from Luke 12:47-48;s Truth, right??

---John

 

[Pelagia]

Actually, Christ established His Church on earth, on the day of Pentecost. The faithful had their churches in homes, at first. The Apostles led the faithful in the different areas, hence the letters, to the different churches. I believe the term, "church" is used in the Bible. The Apostles ordained bishops to handle the organization of churches, because they needed to be free to preach the word of God, without the burden of office.

Over time, and generations, future bishops, priests and deacons were ordained. This is called Apostolic succession. The First Ecumenical Council was brought together in 325 A.D. to combat the heresy of Arianism. Also, the Bible was compiled by the bishops, at that time, and the Nicene Creed(the Creed of Faith).

Unfortunately, by 1054 A.D. the issue of the Filioque, led the bishop of Rome to anathamatize the bishop of Constantinople. And Rome became her own boss(in a word). The Filioque being the false teaching that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, which is an obvious heresy(See John 3:16) and against the First Ecumenical Council. From this Great Schism, Luther eventually seperated and "created" his own "church". And those that did not agree with Luther, seperated from him, etc. etc. etc.

In the meantime, the Eastern Church, now know as the Orthodox Church, continued to live by the Apostolic succession(since Rome broke away from that).

Christ established a specific Church on earth, because we are human and live within a physical boundary and we need to relate to a physical space of worship, but our prayers should be offered from our hearts, which is spiritual. Christ guided the Apostles, who passed that faith down to the next generations. That faith which they taught is the truth, but overtime, people created confusion and created their own truths about God and the faith(heresies).

The Church that Christ established through the Apostles had a main function...to offer the Holy of Holies... the Body and Blood of Christ... Holy Communion. That's why the church and priests are necessary....Christ offers Himself to us in the Liturgy. The Last Supper had a very specific meaning. But, the offering of Christ's Body and Blood has to be done in the full truth of the faith that He taught the Apostles and that they passed down to their successors. The Apostolic succession is the true line of the Church that Christ established. Anything else is a half truth.

In Christ

Pelagia

 

[John the Baptist]

I do not buy into anything without it being backed up by a thus sayeth the Lord! :wink:

In Psalm 77:13 (read it in the King James) we have God telling us that His way is in the Sanctuary. And the book of Hebrews tell's us what is beyond the 'rent Vail' (at Christ's death) between the Holy Place & the Most Holy Place. And Revelation gives much Truth as to heaven itself, to what the Sanctuary on earth was patterned after! And who studies this??? Adventist doctrine!

But, does that mean that they are any more saved because they have Virgin doctrines??? Hardly! Luke 12:47-48 And one best believe the verse! :

---John

 

[SputnikBoy]

John, call me 'thick', call me whatever you will, but I haven't got a CLUE what you are raving about. Do you speak 'in tongues'? You sure write in them.

 

[John the Baptist]

John, call me 'thick', call me whatever you will, but I haven't got a CLUE what you are raving about. Do you speak 'in tongues'? You sure write in them.

*******
Hi friend:
Some are on meat here! But, I am not calling any personal one anything, here. We all grow at different speeds.

---John

 

[bibleberean]

There is no such thing as "apostolic succession".

The apostles laid the foundation of the church and we have there doctrines and teachings recorded in the bible.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

The church foudation has been laid. The RCC and other apostate churches believe that they stand in the place of Christ and His apostles today but they are liars.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

 

[Orthodox Christian]

There is no such thing as "apostolic succession".

I disagree.

The apostles laid the foundation of the church and we have there doctrines and teachings recorded in the bible.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

The Apostles and prophets (note the similarity and contrast between the Hebrew expression for scripture- "The Law and Prophets"- and the Christian expression Apostles and Prophets) laid the foundation of the Church. They themselves are not entombed in the Church basement. Far from it-

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

If apostolic authority has died with the Twelve, then so did the teaching gift and evangelism. Of course, we know that the Apostolic gift was not associated only with the Twelve. No, rather, Paul, James and Jude, Titus, Apollos, Barnabas, John Mark, and others are mentioned in scripture as apostles.

Elders and Bishops were designated in each city, authorized by the Apostles and by those whom the Apostles authorized.

The church foudation has been laid. The RCC and other apostate churches believe that they stand in the place of Christ and His apostles today but they are liars.

I would agree with the part "other apostate churches." Take for example the so called 'bible-believing churches.' They claim authority based upon their reading of the bible, and they are liars indeed.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

You highlight this as to make Christ say that anyone claiming to be an apostle was a liar. One small problem- had apostles gone away, there would be no need to test them.

Besides, we know that the context of this scripture is not the denial of the persistence of the apostolic ministry/office.

 

[John the Baptist]

There is no such thing as "apostolic succession".

The apostles laid the foundation of the church and we have there doctrines and teachings recorded in the bible.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

The church foudation has been laid. The RCC and other apostate churches believe that they stand in the place of Christ and His apostles today but they are liars.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

*******
Here is some more of the Everlasting Gospel! :fadein:

"And I give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 17:19

Baptism will put the name on the heavenly record books & the same church can remove the name from the heavenly record books when the REQUIREMENT of CHRIST are followed.

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell his fault between thee and him alone: if he hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as the heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matthew 18:15-18

These surely are the Word's of Christ! Yet, it is not always the local folks who are in error. Israel as a whole fold were cut off. Matthew 23:38. See Revelation 2:5 ".. or else I will come unto thee quickly, and remove thy candlestick out of his place, .." Revelation 1:20 finds the 'Candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

These are not the Revelation 17:1-5 ones for sure! These are Virgin in Christs Doctrines. Yet He requires faithfulness! See His Words of Luke 12:47-48. And surely we see the last candlestick once again in Revelation 3:16-17 becoming SICKENING TO CHRIST and being SPEWED OUT, then a new leader took over & they became the Synagoge of satan! Revelation 3:9.

BUT, BOTTOM LINE: Because the Lord removes the candlestick, that does not mean that Order & organization has been laid aside. This has always been Christ's ETERNAL Gospel REQUIREMENT!! Can one even think of what heaven would be like with all the 'loose cannons' that we see on the internet running around??

Naw, we see the sixth fold replacing the seventh as did the church replace Israel of old. And we see Philadelphia which is the sixth, replace fallen Laodicea which is the seventh. Both were on the scene each time period!
---John

 

[Merry Menagerie]

I don't think we should be naming denominations and putting them down. I don't believe that the organisational church of today is represented in the bible AT ALL. The organisational church is a man-made thing established to keep order and for political and monetary reasons. The church of the NT is not represented in ANY denomination currently on this earth.

I have an article written about it...am I allowed to post a link? Does anyone know?

 

[bibleberean]

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Ephesians 2:19-22

The example of the church is a building.

A foundation is laid at the bottom. If there are still apostles then the foundation is not complete.

But as anyone can read the foundation is finished.

The apostles doctrine established the church.

As a founding apostle Paul states...

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

We read Pauls revelation and we understand his apostolic knowledge by reading God's word.

The Popes and the Patriarchs are not apostles. The foundation of the church has been laid.

These men are frauds and usurpers.

Liars.

The apostles were eye witness's of the resurrected Christ...

Peter when speaking to the disciples in the upper room before Pentecost said that the man who was to replace Judas had to be an eye witness of the resurrected Christ and needed to be someone who was with them from the "beginning".

Acts 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Jesus told the apostles...

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Paul was a special apostle "born out of due time" but he too was an eyewitness of the resurrected Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:1
Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

Speaking of seeing the resurrected Christ Paul states...

After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me [PAUL] also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Paul was the last person aside from the apostle John to see the resurrected Christ.

The apostles worked miracles... and showed the signs of an apostle...

2 Corinthians 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.

2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.


"And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles." Acts 2:34

"And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people..." Acts 5:12

The church is built on the apostles doctrine...

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

These purple and scarlet clothed frauds are no apostles....

And neither is this anit christ imposter.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

 

[bibleberean]

I don't think we should be naming denominations and putting them down. I don't believe that the organisational church of today is represented in the bible AT ALL. The organisational church is a man-made thing established to keep order and for political and monetary reasons. The church of the NT is not represented in ANY denomination currently on this earth.

I have an article written about it...am I allowed to post a link? Does anyone know?

If you are right then the gates of hell have "prevailed against the church" and Jesus would be mistaken.

There are many churches today which bear the marks of a biblical church.

The scriptures are their criterion for truth.

They fellowship in the name of Jesus and keep His ordinances.

They may or may not be denominational churches.

There are errors in all churches today just as there were in the days of the apostles.

Read the many rebukes to the churches by Peter, James, John and Paul.

Read the rebuke of Christ Himself to the 7 churches....

Revelation 1-3

Things may be worse today then they were then but the same problems they had we have...

In His service,

Robert