Not the only sexual immorality...

[ChristineES]

Same sex intercourse is not the only sexual immorality listed in the bible, there are others (conviently forgotten).

If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. (Deu 22:22)

Deu 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:

Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

In Deu 22:28 and 29 it clearly states that if a man lay with a unmarried girl, then he will marry her and will not be able to divorce her!

It also states in the OT that you are not to sleep with any relatives, with your neighbor's wife, and much more as stated in Lev 18:6- 18:25:
None of you shall approach to any who are near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness. I am Jehovah. (Lev 18:6)

You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father or the nakedness of your mother. She is your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness. (Lev 18:7)

You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife. It is your father's nakedness. (Lev 18:8)

You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father or the daughter of your mother, born at home or born away. Their nakedness you shall not uncover. (Lev 18:9)

The nakedness of your son's daughter, or of your daughter's daughter, you shall not uncover their nakedness. For theirs is your own nakedness. (Lev 18:10)

You shall not uncover the nakedness of the daughter of your father's wife, begotten of your father. She is your sister. (Lev 18:11)

You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister. She is your father's near kinswoman. (Lev 18:12)

You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister. For she is your mother's near kinswoman. (Lev 18:13)

You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother. You shall not approach his wife. She is your aunt. (Lev 18:14)

You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife. You shall not uncover her nakedness. (Lev 18:15)

You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife. It is your brother's nakedness. (Lev 18:16)

You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shall you undertake to uncover her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter. They are her near kinswomen; it is wickedness. (Lev 18:17)

And you shall not take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life. (Lev 18:18)

Also you shall not approach to a woman to uncover her nakedness in the impurity of her uncleanness. (Lev 18:19)

And you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor's wife, to defile yourself with her. (Lev 18:20)

And you shall not let any of your seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shall you profane the name of your God. I am Jehovah. (Lev 18:21)

You shall not lie with mankind as with womankind. It is abomination to God. (Lev 18:22)

And you shall not lie with any animal to defile yourself with it. And a woman shall not stand before an animal to lie down to it. It is a perversion. (Lev 18:23)

Do not defile yourselves in any of these things. For in all these the nations are defiled, which I cast out before you. (Lev 18:24)

And the land is defiled. Therefore I visit its wickedness on it, and the land itself vomits out those who live in it. (Lev 18:25)

You can't pick on one and not pick on everyone else. It is just as much a sin to sleep with your neighbor's wife as it is to sleep with the same sex. It is always good to read everything.

 

[christian_soldier]

No argument here. 8-)

 

[SputnikBoy]

Oh my, Christine ...you HAVE done your homework! Good post.

Don't expect this thread to be too popular, however ...the witch-hunt against homosexuals by Christians is a LOT more fun . . .

 

[christian_soldier]

Oh my, Christine ...you HAVE done your homework! Good post.

Don't expect this thread to be too popular, however ...the witch-hunt against homosexuals by Christians is a LOT more fun . . .

The difference is precisely this, sput.... NO ONE will come to this thread defending this list of taboos.

EXCEPT maybe THIS one:
You shall not lie with mankind as with womankind. It is abomination to God. (Lev 18:22)

Now, WHY IS THAT, oh defender of the abomination?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Yes, we should all have a list of commands from the ancient book of Leviticus framed and hung on our wall for daily perusal ... :wink:

 

[ChristineES]

Oh my, Christine ...you HAVE done your homework! Good post.

Don't expect this thread to be too popular, however ...the witch-hunt against homosexuals by Christians is a LOT more fun . . .

Oh, trust me, I know it will not be popular! People love to point fingers but don't like fingers pointed at them!! :wink:

 

[Quath]

The one I don't like are some of the ones about rape and pre-maritial sex.

1. A raped unengaged, single woman has to marry her rapist.

2. There is no punishment for raping an unengaged slave.

3. Raping a married or engaged slave and you gave to kill an animal.

4. If a woman has per-maritial sex, kill her in front of her parents. There is no punishment for a man.

 

[GundamZero]

1. Deuteronomy 23 deals with this mostly. Now you need to understand that verses 28-29 only applies if verses 23-27 don't apply.

2. If you read Deutoronomy 23, you'll find in the later verses about rape that there is no distinction between slave or free, just virgin, betroved or not.

3. Again, only applies if one cannot verify a case for forced rape. If a slave girl is in a bind, she could say any guy raped her, but no one would know if it is true. Now read over verse 27 again. If the girl, slave or not, cries out, than it's solid proof for rape, which is handled like murder, and the guy doesn't have a defense.

4. Keep in mind there is only a few ways to know it a girl has commited pre-marital sex. But can you think of a way to tell if a guy has? And in that situation, if somehow it was found out, the guy would be put to death because, as it says in verse 22-23, since those verses can be applied.

That's why even Israel had lawyers. Be careful. I remember thinking the same things when I read through those verses. But if you really examine it, it's not as bad as you think. It's just like our own legal system, things aren't always as thay seem and you need the whole picture to understand it.

God wanted them to be able to judge these situations for themselves. Sadly, they never quite figured it out. And we haven't today either. Isn't it strange how a drug dealer can get life, but a rapist can be out in a few months? It's a fallen world, my friend.

 

[Quath]

1. Deuteronomy 23 deals with this mostly. Now you need to understand that verses 28-29 only applies if verses 23-27 don't apply.

I think you mean Deuteronomy 22.

I agree. The previous cases were for married or engaged women. Verses 28-29 were for virgin unmarried women.

2. If you read Deutoronomy 23, you'll find in the later verses about rape that there is no distinction between slave or free, just virgin, betroved or not.

Not here, but elsewhere there is. Leviticus 19:20-21 - 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD.

3. Again, only applies if one cannot verify a case for forced rape. If a slave girl is in a bind, she could say any guy raped her, but no one would know if it is true. Now read over verse 27 again. If the girl, slave or not, cries out, than it's solid proof for rape, which is handled like murder, and the guy doesn't have a defense.

Deut 22 is dealing with sex/rape with free women. Lev 19 is dealing with the slaves.

4. Keep in mind there is only a few ways to know it a girl has commited pre-marital sex. But can you think of a way to tell if a guy has? And in that situation, if somehow it was found out, the guy would be put to death because, as it says in verse 22-23, since those verses can be applied.

There are a lot of things wrong with this:
1. God uses the bleeding of the hymen as a virginity test. Yet we know that test is not very good. Many girls break their hymen before they have sex through accidents or luck. For God to use this as a test shows that God has a poor understanding of anatomy.

2. If God designed the body, why did he try to make a test for women built in, but not for men.

3. Verse 22-23 just says to follow the laws. But there are no laws forbidding men from having pre-maritial sex.

That's why even Israel had lawyers. Be careful. I remember thinking the same things when I read through those verses. But if you really examine it, it's not as bad as you think. It's just like our own legal system, things aren't always as thay seem and you need the whole picture to understand it.

What really happened is that mothers or servants would give brides animal blood to shed on the sheets to keep them from being killed based on the holy word of God.

God wanted them to be able to judge these situations for themselves. Sadly, they never quite figured it out. And we haven't today either. Isn't it strange how a drug dealer can get life, but a rapist can be out in a few months? It's a fallen world, my friend.

If God wanted people to figure it out, he should have let humans make the laws. Once God makes the laws, people have a hard time breaking away from them. Imagine how horrible it would be if we had to follow the laws that God set up today.

 

[christian_soldier]

If God wanted people to figure it out, he should have let humans make the laws. Once God makes the laws, people have a hard time breaking away from them. Imagine how horrible it would be if we had to follow the laws that God set up today.

:smt017

 

[Relic]

Oh my, Christine ...you HAVE done your homework! Good post.

Don't expect this thread to be too popular, however ...the witch-hunt against homosexuals by Christians is a LOT more fun . . .

The difference is precisely this, sput.... NO ONE will come to this thread defending this list of taboos.

EXCEPT maybe THIS one:
You shall not lie with mankind as with womankind. It is abomination to God. (Lev 18:22)

Now, WHY IS THAT, oh defender of the abomination?

I'm sorry if this is long but this has to be said! And I will try to break it down in 4 separate postings here.

Because this defending sin is just too much, and making a big deal out of which sins we discuss is just plain ridiculous! This is a Christians site people! Making excuses such as, 'Well you better bring up other sins too', is just ludicrous!

All this Defending Sin for who?
No one defends those "other" sins as much because many people here don't object to those sins. But it is only those who object to speaking out against the sin of homosexuality who come in hoards to defend those who think they are homosexuals.
Those who come here to defend the sin of homosexuality all too rarely speak about the healing power of Jesus Christ while speaking about the sin of homosexuality, but they come to speak in defense of the homosexual. What's that all about?
God does not say to defend those who live in sin, and to defend them because they think they were "genetically oriented" that way.
God's Holy Word teaches us to exhort one another, to rebuke the evil of the sin and to teach as Jesus did as he did with the woman at the well, to Go and Sin No More.
No, We are NOT throwing stones!
When someone says a person is living in sin, that does not mean they are saying to throw stones at the sinner to put them to death. No! What it does mean is they are announcing that the sin is wrong, what is wrong about it and to say to them to Go and sin No More.


Psalm 33:4
For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Psalm 28:5
Because they regard not the works of the LORD, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"As long as I have breath and as long as there are people who care about children, I don't believe this issue will ever die down. With 1.8 million children missing, it's damn time somebody did something about it besides me." ~John Walsh~

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAMBLA must be stopped!
GLSEN must be stopped!

end of part 1 of 4

 

[Relic]

.



Sin Must Be revealed
Do you teach the sinner to Go and Sin No More? Many a sinner won't know they are living in sin if they don't hear the Truth about the destruction sin does in their lives. The Holy Word of God opposes sin and teaches a way out of sin. The Holy Spirit convicts everyone of sin and calls them to Repentance of it. If there isn't anyone being used by the Holy Spirit to announce the Holy Truth, then what? No one is allowed to speak out? John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul, All the Prophets? They aren't allowed to speak about a particular sin without having to bring up all of the sins of fornication? Well. That's not how it works.

Talking about The Root Cause and The Solution
When people go to a therapist, do they talk about all their problems in every single session, or do you break it down and work on one at a time in a series of sessions so as to find the root cause of the problem?
Give me a break! there is No excuse to say we don't bring up any other of the sins but only the one sin.

That posting I made about Swingers who are Adulterers.... Well, no swingers or adulterers objected. And no one came to their defense. Except one person who took a secular ungodly stance for what anyone wants to do by saying let them do it as long as no one gets hurt. :-? Like that's a Christian's thing to say and believe. NOT! It was written by an atheist. :roll:
And nor did those guys who speak out so adamantly in objection of the posting in any thread that brings up the sin of homosexuality come to speak out for or against the sin of swinger/adulterers. They only speak out against those who come to speak out about the sin of homosexuality. Go figure. :roll:

They won't come to this thread to object to the speaking out against the sin of homosexuality because it is mixed in with the other sexual sins. What, do they think it won't be noticed as much? :-? Or is this not the thread to wage their war because it isn't specific enough but "includes" others, and so they just keep a low profile here? :roll:


Psalm 33:4
For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Psalm 28:5
Because they regard not the works of the LORD, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"As long as I have breath and as long as there are people who care about children, I don't believe this issue will ever die down. With 1.8 million children missing, it's damn time somebody did something about it besides me." ~John Walsh~

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAMBLA must be stopped!
GLSEN must be stopped!

end of part 2 of 4

 

[Relic]

.

Well, I am not going to defend any of those sexual sins, but I will speak out against them all.
And when the Lord prompts me to speak out against one or another is not for you to say that I am focusing on the one particular sin without bringing up the others. Much of the time it is necessary in order to work through the issue without allowing diversions to enter in which would create distractions which serve as an aide to evade the issue. Which by the way is one of the favorite means of distraction used by some of those who come to advocate for a sin.

I have been guilty of some, I'm not taking claim to have never had any sin in my life. However! I have repented of the ones I have done, And as a Christian who has been washed clean of such sin, I am obligated to speak out against them and say, “Repent, Go and Sin No More!â€Â

Now if I choose to speak out against one of them at a particular time, that doesn't mean I don't speak out against the others at some other instance.

The thing is, that those who come to defend homosexuality, try to accuse us of not speaking out against the other sins all too much in other threads. And that IS a false accusation on their part. This board is full of threads in which these other sexual sins are brought up in threads that go as far back as 1993, but do these people who keep on insisting there is a witch hunt against the homosexuals pay attention to this fact? NO! And so, here it is... almost 4 years later and they still cry foul over threads posted specifically on the abomination of homosexuality, they use false accusations as their attack to justify their defense of the homosexuality as if there is nothing the homosexual can do about it.
Do you ever see them post for the homosexual to Repent and Go Sin No More? They don't tell homosexuals that Jesus is the healer! They say God can't or won't do a thing for the homosexual because they think God made them that way. What’s that all about? :o
Makes one “tend towards†suspect that these guys are homosexuals themselves who only come to defend themselves. But then I should never ever dare to think such a thing, aye? It’s like if I defend a sinner, is that because I have no qualms against the sin therefore I would be free to do the sin myself if I wanted to. ;)
Why else would anyone defend a sin? It’s like saying Oh I have no qualms to marrying an animal, but I wouldn’t do it. :o Then why defend it? To be really free from sin one must set limits. And Abuse of Freedom of Will does not serve righteousness, it serves sin! Same stands true with the terms within freedom of speech, If you choose to advocate for the sinner what are you serving, Freedom to sin? :o And so, double standards are very strange indeed, they lack any sign of having integrity! You are either for righteousness or not. You can't serve two ideals and say you are a person of integrity by supporting a sin but saying it is not for you.



Psalm 33:4
For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Psalm 28:5
Because they regard not the works of the LORD, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"As long as I have breath and as long as there are people who care about children, I don't believe this issue will ever die down. With 1.8 million children missing, it's damn time somebody did something about it besides me." ~John Walsh~

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAMBLA must be stopped!
GLSEN must be stopped!

end of part 3 of 4

 

[Atonement]

But it is only those who object to speaking out against the sin of homosexuality who come in hoards to defend those who think they are homosexuals.

I stopped reading your post after that comment. I don't defend or speak out about homosexuality. I rather speak to the sinner themself as Jesus our Lord did. I can yell all day, Hell Fire and Brimstone, but that tattic won't change anyone's direction, neither speaking for it or against it. When you can have an heart to heart conversation with someone, on why Jesus came here and explain that if Jesus came back tomorrow to judge you on the 10 commandements would you be found guilty? Then I share with them the love our Father gave to cover that sin (any sin) to have fellowship with Him.. Sounds more reasonable, more meaningful and more promising to the sinner and to come to repentence of any sin in their life. That's what the Bible is all about.. Creating a wonderful meaningful realtionship with our King in Heaven.

 

[Relic]

.

In regards to the list of sins in OP

Sexual Sin Controversy 1. Did God "make" people be born to be persons who can't stop having desires and attractions to have sex with whomever they want adulterer, fornicator, incest, same-sex or adult/child? And so, those who think they were born that way have every right to have desires and attractions to have sex with whomever they want because they think they were born into it "genetically oriented" that way?

Sexual Sin Controversy 2. Did God "make" people be born to be a person who can't stop having desires and attractions to have sex with a beast? And so, those who think they were born that way have every right to have desires and attractions to have sex with animals because they think they were born into it or "genetically oriented" that way?

Fact: There are groups of people who believe they were 'genetically oriented" that way, and so they think they have every right to do what they want with whomever or whatever they want!
So does that give the homosexual who isn't a pedophile an exception to those who believe their orientation is based on some genetic make up? :o

See what can happen when one group uses some excuse for their behavior and then other groups think well, they can say the same thing because who's to prove it otherwise. And until it is proven one way or another, they will continue to do as they please to do!
And so, they think that even if they don't prove it to be a genetic orientation thing, that they have every right in the world to do as they please to do as long as it isn't hurting anyone else and it is between consenting people.
And some of these people even go so far as to say, what's to say about animals, how can a little bit of sex hurt a stupid animal?
Well! I ask, How absurd disgusting and perverted is that?

Some people think that way! And they think... who are you or who does God think He is to tell them what they can and can't do?
Well.... there ya go.....they are the ones who live by their own rules and don't care what the rest of decent people in society has to say about how much damage it does to them or others.
They don't care what anyone thinks because their minds are anti-establishment. They will believe and live whatever way they so well choose to live.

What about that? People who refuse to abide by anything but their own thinking be it considered perverted or not. There ya go. Rebels without a cause for societies standards of righteousness.
They are out to change what mainstream society thinks about what is right and what isn't right. They want Society to accept their perversions as if they are normal! :o They don't believe in that word called sin. They just say, 'well.... who are you to tell me I am a sinner and what I should do about it?'

And so...... many of them end up complaining that their rights are being taken away from them and that people call them outcasts and label them with a term that is an offense to them. Ironic isn't it?
Many of them can be offended by the righteousness of others but we can't be offended by them because we are telling them what is defined as decent or not! They reject the laws of society and they reject the truth of God.
Many of them have no regard for Consequences of what they do! but they tell those who consider consequences that they have no rights to tell them.
And that, is what is the aim of sexual sinners. Many of them want the rights to do whatever they want with whomever they want. And they even want to partake in some of our 'sacred unions/marriage, those very unions that are sanctified by God as a Holy union. They want to marry each other. How Ironic is that?

They are those who pervert absolute truths without regard to it's consequences. They reject truth! There was one case in which a person wanted to marry a snake! And thought nothing of it! Well, If it was a boa-constrictor and it got hungry while they were cuddling in bed one night would that person be sorry for marrying a snake? there was a case in which this man thought he could observe bears and live with them as he observed them.. Well, he invited his girlfriend to join him and they both ended up dead! did he listen to the warning of people who told him it was a dangerous thing to do? No.

And so those who insist that sexual sin is not sin..... will they listen to the warnings of why it is wrong to live in that sin?

And so I must give fair enough warning and ask All decent people... While many of them are craftily sneaking to infiltrate our government and schools will those silent passive so called Christians do nothing but whimpily tell them how wrong they are, Will they actually get up off of their lazy do nothing attitudes and make serious efforts of pro-actions against the perverted intent they use to wipe out righteousness as a standard by which to live by?
Wake up and arise all ye Christians! If the minority of you who say you are Christians continue on to defend the sinner long enough you will be a contributor to the ruin of decent standards we must all live by. These people are out to destroy what Christians believe in and intend of doing it on the sly, while we do nothing to stop them. Our standards will be subtly destroyed by them! You guys better wake up and take action against these people who think nothing of committing to living in sin! And you guys had better make sure you check out your childrens teachers, counselors, and anyone who deals with them. And you had better get involved with stopping the immoral people from entering into the government offices!

Do you not know that many a pedophile are professors and teachers in our schools! Don't you know that many pedophiles are actively seeking to be around children wherever children are! Don't you know that plenty enough homosexual groups who are out to desensitize your children and train them that there is no moral wrong with homosexuality, are infiltrating the government and schools so as to gain control of the next term in office, the next generation of children!!!! Many of them are the ones who are promoting the sin abomination of homosexuality! They would prefer that all children be desensitized to it! Wake up and arise Christians! There are plenty enough of these people around who are out for that purpose! And don't think they don't visit this web forum. I do not say all of them are doing this, but believe it enough are doing it! Wake up people! You had better get off your tushes and start to defend our country and our children and our morals! And take an active participation in this fight for what is to come. Christians, arise... wake up!

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Well, The Lord God wants us to participate in His Holiness.

James 2:17 - 18
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Faith without works is dead folks!
And the those who take to being slack are not serving anything!

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Guess what folks, those wicked demon spirits want you to think they don't work through the flesh! We as Christians must know that it is the spirit that works through the flesh to accomplish it's goal! That's the whole point in that scripture, that it's not the flesh that is the problem it is the spirit that is using the flesh to reach it's goal and once all these slacker Christians get it straight that we must take action for the cause of righteousness. Not just sit back and watch the wicked work through the flesh! We must make sure they don't !!!!!


Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Ephesians 5:3-17
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.


Psalm 33:4
For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Psalm 28:5
Because they regard not the works of the LORD, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"As long as I have breath and as long as there are people who care about children, I don't believe this issue will ever die down. With 1.8 million children missing, it's damn time somebody did something about it besides me." ~John Walsh~

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAMBLA must be stopped!
GLSEN must be stopped!

end of part 4 of 4

 

[Relic]

I stopped reading your post after that comment. I don't defend or speak out about homosexuality. I rather speak to the sinner themself as Jesus our Lord did. I can yell all day, Hell Fire and Brimstone, but that tattic won't change anyone's direction, neither speaking for it or against it. When you can have an heart to heart conversation with someone, on why Jesus came here and explain that if Jesus came back tomorrow to judge you on the 10 commandements would you be found guilty? Then I share with them the love our Father gave to cover that sin (any sin) to have fellowship with Him.. Sounds more reasonable, more meaningful and more promising to the sinner and to come to repentence of any sin in their life. That's what the Bible is all about.. Creating a wonderful meaningful realtionship with our King in Heaven.

Well I have a wonderful meaningful relationship with our King and He isn't alway so gentle when it comes to dealing with the stubborn! Have you Noticed? Jesus didn't treat everyone so gentle all the time. Are we to ignore that part of him and ignore why he did that when it was deemed appropriate to do so? Why do you think he scolded the Pharisees and Peter and those who fell asleep while he struggled with facing his calling to the cross and sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane? Yes, Jesus was in a human body, and that body resisted no differently than ours! It was His Holy spirit that fought the good fight! It is a war against the evil spirit. If you think the only way to communicate to those evil spirit is by not rebuking them with sometimes a very harsh reality, you are mistaken. It's not always a gentle approach that gets the job done. I know when to be gentle and when not to be gentle. And I don't ignore when I need to be tough on the stubborn. If you don't like the fact that Jesus is not alway gentle in dealing with some people it's not my problem. I've been taught that lesson already. Are your parents never without strict speaking? Were all of the warnings in the bible of a gentle nature? NO, they were not. I am not hating anyone. I am speaking truth that is in the word and truth of what sin is and what harm it does. Sorry if it is too harsh for you to understand that.

You don't know what direction anyone will take in regard to how gentle or harsh the words appear to them. God works through many means of communicating, and yes, some are very harsh! Jesus didn't cast out spirits by speaking softly to them! And when we are to follow Jesus, it isn't always going to be gentle like some people misunderstand Paul and take it out of context. And you think to rebuke is always gentle? You think discipline is always gentle? I've struggled plenty with the gentle approach in my own life! Many times the gentle approach does nothing for someone who needs a loud voice and a hard look at reality of what they are doing to themselves. Been there my self all too often. Young whipper snappers usually don't understand the hardness that comes along with facing things we'd rather prefer to dis. I know, I was a young whipper snapper myself who thought the snap of a whip was just a fun thing like like they do in the rodeo. If I didn't get a swift kick in the face of reality for some of the things I was doing in my life, I would still be in that particular sin!

Did Jesus tickle the Pharisees when he told them of their sins? Did Jesus smile at Peter when he told the spirit of satans that got a hold of him to "Get thee behind me Satan"?

When people come on board and deliberately advocated for the cause of what the bible says is an abomination, they are not going to get smiles from me. Doesn't mean I don't sincerely care about them.

I know people who think they are homosexual and my sisters husband's brother died of full blown Aids at a very young age! And you think the only way to get across to any of them who adamantly for years seek out to fight against those who speak out against the abomination of homosexuality, is your way of not even speaking out about it? :o Sorry if this sin is too sensitive for you to deal with in any other way but your way. And so I ask you this, would Paul also say to Jesus be ye gentle to one another in revealing them their sins?
Sorry, but not all people listen to the gentle warnings, some people need a swift kick in the face of reality.

I'm sure you had some harsh realities that converted you. Not all so gentle, aye? The conviction of sin is not always easy pickings. If you want to feed milk to people then go right ahead. The meat of the Holy Word is not always so easy to digest.



I understand your not understanding the so called "tactic". It's not a tactic. If it was the prophets wouldn't have written any of their books and Jesus wouldn't have said some of the things He did to some. The truth hurts only to those who don't want to face it.

God Bless you.

.

Psalm 33:4
For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Psalm 28:5
Because they regard not the works of the LORD, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"As long as I have breath and as long as there are people who care about children, I don't believe this issue will ever die down. With 1.8 million children missing, it's damn time somebody did something about it besides me." ~John Walsh~

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NAMBLA must be stopped!
GLSEN must be stopped!

 

[SputnikBoy]

Relic, the fanaticism behind your posts is most disturbing. You're not preaching. You're pounding a hate message with a gavel. If I've contributed to driving you to this behavior I'm truly sorry.

 

[Drew]

I very much agree with Atonement's post.

The problem with the approach of using the more "hard-edged" approach to revealing sin is simply this: hypocrisy. Unless one really has earned the "moral high ground", this approach will backfire and backfire badly.

Example 1: A Christian with a $ 100,000 automobile who expounds on the evils of sexual promiscuity.

Example 2: A Chistian who falsely claims that other people have made certain statements who then also expounds on the evils of lying.

Even though it is indeed true that promiscuity and lying are sin, people will not hear such messages from those whose lives reveal unrepentent sin. This is human nature.

Of course, Jesus does have the moral high ground to take such an approach.

 

[Atonement]

Relic, your response is noted. I have my tattics and you have your tattics. Being an ex-Satanist that I am, standing here telling teenagers about my testimony and sharing the Love God has for them, has proven to work better then trowing the Bible at them and saying if you don't repent your going to hell. Though it is true, it's not the proper way to get a message across. Intime with the help from the Holy Spirit, will that person repent from their sins and grow in their relationship with God.

 

[ChristineES]

I have always been under the impression to "hate the sin, but love the sinner". With all due respect there are many who don't follow this way of thinking. Just as homosexuality is not the only sexual taboo in the bible, all the sins mentioned aren't just about sexual immorality. There are many other sins, that are mentioned in the OT and the NT.

People screaming about hell has done more to turn people away from Christ than to it! (that is not to say that it does not work at times, because it does). The old axiom goes "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" fits in some situations.

The truth of the matter is that we all sin! We all need to repent! I am not a homosexual, but I have other sins that are considered just as bad. If I were perfect, I would not need Yeshua (Jesus) in the first place.

We should focus more on love and less on condemnation. After all, that is what Jesus did.