Paul And The Final Gospel 2

[Soul man]

Final gospel is the Gospel of Grace. Grace is the keyword in the lives of humans as far as eternal plan of God is concerned. God bestowed grace upon people in the Old Testament. However, this grace was not the same as the grace that came with the call in ministry of the apostle Paul. All grace given to humans before the day of Pentecost was something less than the grace that follows Calvary. Old Testament Grace was often translated mercy.

There is a great difference between God having mercy on someone and God giving Grace. Grace was mercy before Paul because of Moses law that must be kept, you cannot have pure Grace and keep any part of the law. Remember ,Calvery dissolved the law, Galatians, 3:13.

But sadly, many today, particularly those in the kingdom message, offer humanity mercy instead of grace. They do this to keep the law intact because they have never discovered the power of God's total grace without Old Testament mercy and law. Most born-again believers are in this state of spiritual being to varying degrees.

1) To be denied the fullness of God's grace is to be denied what it means to be in Christ. It means to be denied the fullness of the Fatherhood of God. It means to be denied the truths of how Christ lives in all believers. It means to be denied the final gospel and much of the grace of God.

Yet all believers have a measure of God's grace and were I to tell them they were lacking in any part of God's blessing they would be angry. The difference is that many depend on what God can do as their means of spiritual growth rather than depending on his finished work that is already in every born-again believers life.

2) This means God's grace is totally given to every believer and there is nothing else God can do. He has dumped the whole bucket of grace on every believing sinner and their issue in life is to learn about it. There is no more that God will do, it is finished.
No experience, no man-made doctrine, no new translations can make up, or give more than we have already received at Calvary.

3)These liberating truths are to be found only in the final gospel. This kind of gospel is not preached in the Old Testament. It is not preached by the kingdom followers today and it was not preached by the early church before Paul. It only came with a revelation from Jesus our Lord to the apostle Paul. Paul alone gives us the final gospel. Generally speaking, the religious Christian world of today has not come to the fullness of God's plan. Believers are being led into self works by there self efforts and are totally unaware of the Christ who lives in them. Keeping the final gospel from believers has caused the world to not know what a Christian is and worse, not even the Christians know who they are in Christ.

 

[Eugene]

To be denied the fullness of God's grace is to be denied what it means to be in Christ.

Hi Brother Soul man, this brings Gal 5:4 to mind. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Notice that this doesn't say we fall from salvation as the result.

 

[JLB]

Final gospel is the Gospel of Grace. Grace is the keyword in the lives of humans as far as eternal plan of God is concerned. God bestowed grace upon people in the Old Testament. However, this grace was not the same as the grace that came with the call in ministry of the apostle Paul. All grace given to humans before the day of Pentecost was something less than the grace that follows Calvary. Old Testament Grace was often translated mercy.

There is a great difference between God having mercy on someone and God giving Grace. Grace was mercy before Paul because of Moses law that must be kept, you cannot have pure Grace and keep any part of the law. Remember ,Calvery dissolved the law, Galatians, 3:13.

But sadly, many today, particularly those in the kingdom message, offer humanity mercy instead of grace. They do this to keep the law intact because they have never discovered the power of God's total grace without Old Testament mercy and law. Most born-again believers are in this state of spiritual being to varying degrees.

1) To be denied the fullness of God's grace is to be denied what it means to be in Christ. It means to be denied the fullness of the Fatherhood of God. It means to be denied the truths of how Christ lives in all believers. It means to be denied the final gospel and much of the grace of God.

Yet all believers have a measure of God's grace and were I to tell them they were lacking in any part of God's blessing they would be angry. The difference is that many depend on what God can do as their means of spiritual growth rather than depending on his finished work that is already in every born-again believers life.

2) This means God's grace is totally given to every believer and there is nothing else God can do. He has dumped the whole bucket of grace on every believing sinner and their issue in life is to learn about it. There is no more that God will do, it is finished.
No experience, no man-made doctrine, no new translations can make up, or give more than we have already received at Calvary.

3)These liberating truths are to be found only in the final gospel. This kind of gospel is not preached in the Old Testament. It is not preached by the kingdom followers today and it was not preached by the early church before Paul. It only came with a revelation from Jesus our Lord to the apostle Paul. Paul alone gives us the final gospel. Generally speaking, the religious Christian world of today has not come to the fullness of God's plan. Believers are being led into self works by there self efforts and are totally unaware of the Christ who lives in them. Keeping the final gospel from believers has caused the world to not know what a Christian is and worse, not even the Christians know who they are in Christ.

Paul preached the same Gospel as Jesus.

For there is no other name under heaven by which man can be saved.

JLB

 

[Eugene]

Paul preached the same Gospel as Jesus.

Brother JLB, if this is so, why does Paul preach things hidden from ages and generations? Do you really believe Peter and the other apostles knew of the inclusion of the mystery of Christ in the Gentiles?
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Do you realize that Paul was caught up into the risen Christ (2 Cor 12:3) to receive revelations none other knew?
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Even Peter later said in 2 Pet 3:16 As also in all his (Paul’s) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood. In this context we might ask if Peter and the other apostles understood that we were to follow the Apostle Paul as he followed Jesus (1 Cor 11:1), and not Peter as the doctrine of a major church proclaims.

Rom 2:16 puts it this way: In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel, that revealed and fulfilled gospel of Col 1:25. It was necessary that Jesus first preach to them He came to we read of in Joh 1:11, He came unto his own, and his own received him not. And Paul confirms this Act 13:46. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[JLB]

Brother JLB, if this is so, why does Paul preach things hidden from ages and generations? Do you really believe Peter and the other apostles knew of the inclusion of the mystery of Christ in the Gentiles?
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Do you realize that Paul was caught up into the risen Christ (2 Cor 12:3) to receive revelations none other knew?
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Even Peter later said in 2 Pet 3:16 As also in all his (Paul’s) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood. In this context we might ask if Peter and the other apostles understood that we were to follow the Apostle Paul as he followed Jesus (1 Cor 11:1), and not Peter as the doctrine of a major church proclaims.

Rom 2:16 puts it this way: In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel, that revealed and fulfilled gospel of Col 1:25. It was necessary that Jesus first preach to them He came to we read of in Joh 1:11, He came unto his own, and his own received him not. And Paul confirms this Act 13:46. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

From the scripture you quoted in Colossians:

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth; 7 as you also learned from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf, 8 who also declared to us your love in the Spirit. Colossians 1:1-7

• Same faith in Jesus Christ: ...since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus
• Through the same Gospel preached throughout Israel first and the rest of the world: of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, which has come to you, as it has also in all the world,

Do you believe those in Israel who heard the Gospel for 10 years before the Gentiles, from the Apostles, are saved by something"other" than faith in Christ Jesus?

Do you believe Cornelius heard another Gospel, other than the Gospel Paul preached?




JLB

 

[JLB]

There is a great difference between God having mercy on someone and God giving Grace. Grace was mercy before Paul because of Moses law that must be kept, you cannot have pure Grace and keep any part of the law.

For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17


The Gospel of Grace came through the preaching and life of Jesus Christ.




JLB

 

[Soul man]

You can not

Hi Brother Soul man, this brings Gal 5:4 to mind. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Notice that this doesn't say we fall from salvation as the result. [/QUOTE

You can not mix one iota of the law to Grace (Christ) or the gospel is perverted.
If paul is studied, you will never find a commingling of the two.
It also brings to mind, Hebrews 6:6
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Most of our Christian lawkeeper's have you in hell at this point, well the fall is the same as Gal. 5:4 back into law.

 

[Soul man]

From the scripture you quoted in Colossians:

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth; 7 as you also learned from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf, 8 who also declared to us your love in the Spirit. Colossians 1:1-7

• Same faith in Jesus Christ: ...since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus
• Through the same Gospel preached throughout Israel first and the rest of the world: of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, which has come to you, as it has also in all the world,

Do you believe those in Israel who heard the Gospel for 10 years before the Gentiles, from the Apostles, are saved by something"other" than faith in Christ Jesus?

Do you believe Cornelius heard another Gospel, other than the Gospel Paul preached?




JLB

Of coarse they were saved by the preaching of Jesus Christ.
You would not know that you are in Christ without Paul. He delivers the message of pure grace, him and Peter had there moments.
We can't grasp that, we want to believe they all lived in harmony, far from it.
To take it further, the OT has nothing about the born again, it's hidden in God. Coming Messiah yes, A death yes, but nothing about God having children.
Jesus mentions to Nicodemus about being born again, and dropped the subject. Without the HolySpirit being poured out no man was going to understand.

 

[Eugene]

Do you believe those in Israel who heard the Gospel for 10 years before the Gentiles, from the Apostles, are saved by something"other" than faith in Christ Jesus?

Not at all, but the total fulfilled gospel was not given to them as it is to us; it was hid until it was revealed to Paul. Initial salvation is not the end of our experience as we walk after the Holy Spirit. There is our initial salvation if we believe on the Lord Jesus, working out our salvation with all fear and trembling as we walk through this present life, and the deliverance from the very presence of sin as we're finally caught up into the very presence of our Saviour.

 

[JLB]

the total fulfilled gospel

The total fulfilled Gospel?

What is the total fulfilled Gospel?

The Gospel Jesus preached, and taught His disciples to preach, is the Gospel, the same Gospel Paul preached.

The same Gospel that was being preached throughout the world.

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesusand of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth; 7 as you also learned from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf, 8 who also declared to us your love in the Spirit. Colossians 1:1-7

• Same faith in Jesus Christ: ...since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus
• Through the same Gospel preached throughout Israel first and the rest of the world: of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, which has come to you, as it has also in all the world,

JLB

 

[JLB]

You would not know that you are in Christ without Paul.

Now your talking about teaching people who are saved and have the Holy Spirit, not preaching the Gospel to the lost.


The Holy Spirit is the Teacher, who reveals the depths and riches of Christ to us.

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Of coarse they were saved by the preaching of Jesus Christ.
You would not know that you are in Christ without Paul. He delivers the message of pure grace, him and Peter had there moments.
We can't grasp that, we want to believe they all lived in harmony, far from it.
To take it further, the OT has nothing about the born again, it's hidden in God. Coming Messiah yes, A death yes, but nothing about God having children.
Jesus mentions to Nicodemus about being born again, and dropped the subject. Without the HolySpirit being poured out no man was going to understand.

This is all very interesting.

You say that without the Holy Spirit being poured out no man was going to understand.
As I read 1 Corinthians I see in chapter 2 that the natural man does not accept or understand the things of God because they are foolishness to him since the are spiritually appraised.
1 Corinthians 2:14

But it goes on to say that he who is spiritual has the mind of Christ and understands things spiritual.
1 Corinthians 2:16

When I first read through the N.T. it seemed like Paul and Jesus were in agreement.
After a few years I began to notice something different about them. Jesus spoke about what we're to do if we're Christian, Paul kept speaking about grace.

Later on still, I realized that there really is no difference since Paul also tells us of what we are to do, just like Jesus does and as the other writers also do.

So do you think Jesus knew less than Paul? Do you feel Jesus had to send the Holy Spirit for man to understand things? Is Jesus not the Holy Spirit? Is He not God? I'm more than sure that He had the capability to tell us all we needed to know to be saved. He told Nicodemus we had to be born from above. We are born of this world, but we must also be born of the unseen world --- the Kingdom of God, which is right here if we can see it.

Jesus didn't "drop the subject". He told Nicodemus all N needed to know. Jesus explained the Kingdom in Mathew 5. You mean to tell me that if Paul had not been chosen by our Lord to preach to the gentiles, we would not know how to be saved?

 

[Kidron]

2) This means God's grace is totally given to every believer and there is nothing else God can do. He has dumped the whole bucket of grace on every believing sinner and their issue in life is to learn about it. There is no more that God will do, it is finished.
No experience, no man-made doctrine, no new translations can make up, or give more than we have already received at Calvary.

.

Yes, Salvation, is a completed situation that God offers.
ITs a Gift.
Salvation is like a bank account that has no limit, and its offered to any who would come and receive the funds.
What many struggle with, is that they think that they have to do something to keep the money, or worse, that they are a part of the bank.
Once they understand that God's SALVATION is the bank, and not their works, and not their holding onto the bank...but that God, who is the giver of the Bank's funds (Salvation), gives all the money for free = ONCE you become a member. (born again).

 

[Soul man]

Now your talking about teaching people who are saved and have the Holy Spirit, not preaching the Gospel to the lost.


The Holy Spirit is the Teacher, who reveals the depths and riches of Christ to us.

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26



JLB

Yes, but look at the where the "in Christ" preaching as a message comes from first. Not saying the other Apostles are not of God or were not used of God.
All they knew at one time was Christ was crucified, you needed to be baptized, so on.
Not until Paul do you get the full intent of the the purpose of God, and that was too birth His own children.
The mystery, Paul never uses the word born-again, he refers to Christ in us as a mystery.
Careful study of the scriptures has to be given, we can't go at them with our doctrines or we don't get anywhere.
We have to take off our doctrinal glasses, being a good berean,
Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[JLB]

Yes, but look at the where the "in Christ" preaching as a message comes from first. Not saying the other Apostles are not of God or were not used of God.
All they knew at one time was Christ was crucified, you needed to be baptized, so on.
Not until Paul do you get the full intent of the the purpose of God, and that was too birth His own children.
The mystery, Paul never uses the word born-again, he refers to Christ in us as a mystery.
Careful study of the scriptures has to be given, we can't go at them with our doctrines or we don't get anywhere.
We have to take off our doctrinal glasses, being a good berean,
Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

No unbeliever is taught about the mysteries of God's Kingdom.

They have the Gospel of the Kingdom preached to them.

When they have the Holy Spirit, then they can comprehend with all of the saints, the riches and depths of Christ Jesus.

14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Ephesians 3:14-19

This teaching is for the saints, not the lost.

• You are mixing together two different things:

The preaching of the Gospel to the lost, with the teaching of the things of Christ to born again, Spirit filled believers.


Which is why you seem to come up with Paul preaching a different Gospel than Jesus and His Apostles.


There is no "final Gospel ", other than what Christ and His Apostles preached.
There is no special "completed Gospel", other than what Christ and His Apostles preached.
There is no special "Gospel of grace to the Gentiles", other than what Christ and His Apostles preached.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48



Here is what the Jews said about the Gospel that was preached to the Gentiles:

18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” Acts 11:18




JLB

 

[Soul man]

No unbeliever is taught about the mysteries of God's Kingdom.

They the Gospel of the Kingdom preached to them.

When they have the Holy Spirit, then they can comprehend with all of the saints, the riches and depths of Christ Jesus.

14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Ephesians 3:14-19

This teaching is for the saints, not the lost.

• You are mixing together two different things:

The preaching of the Gospel to the lost, with the teaching of the things of Christ to born again, Spirit filled believers.


Which is why you seem to come up with Paul preaching a different Gospel than Jesus and His Apostles.


There is no "final Gospel ", other than what Christ and His Apostles preached.
There is no special "completed Gospel", other than what Christ and His Apostles preached.
There is no special "Gospel of grace to the Gentiles", other than what Christ and His Apostles preached.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48



Here is what the Jews said about the Gospel that was preached to the Gentiles:

18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” Acts 11:18




JLB

No unbeliever is taught about the mysteries of God's Kingdom.

They the Gospel of the Kingdom preached to them.

When they have the Holy Spirit, then they can comprehend with all of the saints, the riches and depths of Christ Jesus.

14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Ephesians 3:14-19

This teaching is for the saints, not the lost.

• You are mixing together two different things:

The preaching of the Gospel to the lost, with the teaching of the things of Christ to born again, Spirit filled believers.


Which is why you seem to come up with Paul preaching a different Gospel than Jesus and His Apostles.


There is no "final Gospel ", other than what Christ and His Apostles preached.
There is no special "completed Gospel", other than what Christ and His Apostles preached.
There is no special "Gospel of grace to the Gentiles", other than what Christ and His Apostles preached.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48



Here is what the Jews said about the Gospel that was preached to the Gentiles:

18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” Acts 11:18




JLB

No, there is only one gospel. Unbelievers handle this message easy than most seasoned Christians.
Believers for the most part have to be hungry for the things of God.
When they get honest with themselves and realize there may be something they don't know or have seen.
We stick our head in the sand and say "that is just the short coming of man" or what ever excuse they can come up with.
When they are not putting life together and the school house is working to get the mind to yield to the HolySpirit so they can be taught the Christ-life, the only life a believer has.

 

[Soul man]

This is all very interesting.

You say that without the Holy Spirit being poured out no man was going to understand.
As I read 1 Corinthians I see in chapter 2 that the natural man does not accept or understand the things of God because they are foolishness to him since the are spiritually appraised.
1 Corinthians 2:14

But it goes on to say that he who is spiritual has the mind of Christ and understands things spiritual.
1 Corinthians 2:16

When I first read through the N.T. it seemed like Paul and Jesus were in agreement.
After a few years I began to notice something different about them. Jesus spoke about what we're to do if we're Christian, Paul kept speaking about grace.

Later on still, I realized that there really is no difference since Paul also tells us of what we are to do, just like Jesus does and as the other writers also do.

So do you think Jesus knew less than Paul? Do you feel Jesus had to send the Holy Spirit for man to understand things? Is Jesus not the Holy Spirit? Is He not God? I'm more than sure that He had the capability to tell us all we needed to know to be saved. He told Nicodemus we had to be born from above. We are born of this world, but we must also be born of the unseen world --- the Kingdom of God, which is right here if we can see it.

Jesus didn't "drop the subject". He told Nicodemus all N needed to know. Jesus explained the Kingdom in Mathew 5. You mean to tell me that if Paul had not been chosen by our Lord to preach to the gentiles, we would not know how to be saved?

You have alot of good questions, I know most believers minds are really fixed in their understanding.
Its a God thing, He gave us our own unique expression and we are all different. That is to the delight of our Father, being ourselves.
But the catch here in Christianity is we are free to express who we were created to be, but "in Christ."
In other words for Christ to come out of you as you are your mind must be renewed.
He uses the uniqueness of our creation to express Himself, such as "the fruit of the Spirit."
The fruit of the Spirit is the character and personality of the Christ in you nature. We in no wise can produce that fruit, we may bare the fruit only.
That's what a Christ-person is, or as we say Christian.
The two have become one, the new creation is not Christ without you, nor is it you without Christ.
The gospel is little more detailed then the death, burial, and resurrection. We thank God for that, nothing is possible without that, but it reaches alot further than we understand.
We can know but just a casual look and gleaning over the word will never bring the Christian to the deep things of God.

Maybe if you could just ask a couple questions at a time , ill try to answer.

 

[JLB]

No, there is only one gospel.

Amen!

 

[Soul man]

This is all very interesting.

You say that without the Holy Spirit being poured out no man was going to understand.
As I read 1 Corinthians I see in chapter 2 that the natural man does not accept or understand the things of God because they are foolishness to him since the are spiritually appraised.
1 Corinthians 2:14

But it goes on to say that he who is spiritual has the mind of Christ and understands things spiritual.
1 Corinthians 2:16

When I first read through the N.T. it seemed like Paul and Jesus were in agreement.
After a few years I began to notice something different about them. Jesus spoke about what we're to do if we're Christian, Paul kept speaking about grace.

Later on still, I realized that there really is no difference since Paul also tells us of what we are to do, just like Jesus does and as the other writers also do.

So do you think Jesus knew less than Paul? Do you feel Jesus had to send the Holy Spirit for man to understand things? Is Jesus not the Holy Spirit? Is He not God? I'm more than sure that He had the capability to tell us all we needed to know to be saved. He told Nicodemus we had to be born from above. We are born of this world, but we must also be born of the unseen world --- the Kingdom of God, which is right here if we can see it.

Jesus didn't "drop the subject". He told Nicodemus all N needed to know. Jesus explained the Kingdom in Mathew 5. You mean to tell me that if Paul had not been chosen by our Lord to preach to the gentiles, we would not know how to be saved?

So do you think Jesus knew less than Paul? Do you feel Jesus had to send the Holy Spirit for man to understand things? Is Jesus not the Holy Spirit? Is He not God?

1) No, Paul is Just a human being, I do believe Paul recieved his gospel directly from the resurrected Christ.

2) yes, you can read about the HolySpirit in chapters 14-16, Jesus said what He would do. The day of penecost is the day the HolySpirit was poured out upon all flesh. Prior to that in the Old Testament He came upon man for a specific use.

3) no, Jesus is not the HolySpirit, if you understand the Trinity, one God. Don't even try to figure it out, you can't. God the Father, God the Son, and God the HolySpirit.

4) Yes, Jesus is God.

What an individual needs to see is the plan of God before the creation of the world. We were chosen to be in Christ before the foundation of the world.
That means the Father had in His mind to birth His very own children before the foundation of the world.
We are living in the dispensation of Grace, it came after the cross. All of creation was designed for this age in time.
There has never been a people like us, Christians, living in this world with Christ in them.