Peter living to be an old man and imminence - short

[MisterE]

Some theologians argue against the imminent return of Christ being taught in the Bible. They say that Christ promised Peter he would live to an old age (GJohn 21.18, 19) and therefore Christ could not have returned until Peter was old. For the early church that precluded an any-moment Rapture.

However, Peter himself told believers to look for the coming of the Lord, calling those who did not do so willingly ignorant (2 Pt 3.3-5).
When John wrote the Gospel, and said Peter was to live to be an old man, Peter was already dead 20 years or more ago. So, by the time this saying of Jesus (in the Gospel) was sent out to the churches, they would not have argued this saying. Who knows how old Peter was when he died (under Nero's reign) or what constitutes "old" man.

Essentially, this argument no longer has any force.

 

[RandyK]

Jesus said the Gospel had to be preached in all nations, and then the end would come. At what point do you think Christ's Coming became "imminent"--before or after the Gospel had been preached to all nations?

 

[follower]

Jesus said the Gospel had to be preached in all nations, and then the end would come. At what point do you think Christ's Coming became "imminent"--before or after the Gospel had been preached to all nations?

I'm pretty certain, though not positive, you have read the Gospels and Acts, plus more.
Therein read and see that the Gospel was already in the first century preached to all nations.

 

[RandyK]

I'm pretty certain, though not positive, you have read the Gospels and Acts, plus more.
Therein read and see that the Gospel was already in the first century preached to all nations.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[follower]

You didn't answer the question.

That's immaterial.

Like when will the rising of the sun be imminent ?

 

[RandyK]

That's immaterial.

Like when will the rising of the sun be imminent ?

No, it was the central point.

 

[follower]

No, it was the central point.

A mute point.

 

[RandyK]

A mute point.

I get it. You wish to prove your point when you can't answer what you claim is a "moot point." Suit yourself.

 

[follower]

Make a point that is not moot, and we can compare them.

 

[RandyK]

Make a point that is not moot, and we can compare them.

I disagree. The point is not moot. As I said, it is central. If you can't answer the question, I understand. From your perspective, you cannot.

 

[MisterE]

Jesus said the Gospel had to be preached in all nations, and then the end would come. At what point do you think Christ's Coming became "imminent"--before or after the Gospel had been preached to all nations?

Before. Remember the Apostle Paul included himself when he said "then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up together..." 1 Thes 4.17. For Paul, he thought he would be included in the Rapture in the first century.

And remember, you have to include Daniel's 70th week in the timetable for all nations to be preached the Gospel. So, Paul didn't see any reason he couldn't have been Raptured in the first century. Revelation tells us the God is going to use angels to preach the gospel during the Tribulation to all the world. What Jesus said would have been possible in the first century counting the Apostolic Age plus the 70th week for all the nations to be preached to.

 

[RandyK]

Before. Remember the Apostle Paul included himself when he said "then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up together..." 1 Thes 4.17. For Paul, he thought he would be included in the Rapture in the first century.

And remember, you have to include Daniel's 70th week in the timetable for all nations to be preached the Gospel. So, Paul didn't see any reason he couldn't have been Raptured in the first century. Revelation tells us the God is going to use angels to preach the gospel during the Tribulation. What Jesus said would have been possible in the first century counting the Apostolic Age plus the 70th week for all the nations to be preached to.

Brother, at least you're consistent. There is a brother who refused to answer, and still wished to argue his point. Doesn't work for me. Thanks!

Though I respect your answer, here is the problem I have with that. Jesus, when asked when the Kingdom would come, told his Disciples that they should be engaged in the ministry of evangelism to the world that they were called to.

This assumes a couple of things in my opinion. 1) It assumes they were part of the Gospel being preached to the nations before the end comes. And 2). It assumes that the Disciples were looking forward to the end of the age, when Israel would be restored. This isn't the same thing as looking forward to an any-moment Rapture.

But thanks for answering the question.

 

[MisterE]

This assumes a couple of things in my opinion. 1) It assumes they were part of the Gospel being preached to the nations before the end comes. And 2). It assumes that the Disciples were looking forward to the end of the age, when Israel would be restored. This isn't the same thing as looking forward to an any-moment Rapture.

At this time, the Rapture was still a mystery. The disciples during Christ's earthly ministry would not have considered a Rapture. They only knew of the 2nd Coming of Christ to set up the Kingdom. That's why they ask in Acts 1.6 if Christ was going to restore the Kingdom to Israel at that time. So, you are correct. They apostles would not have been asking Christ about an any-moment Rapture. Under the doctrine of Progressive Revelation, the Rapture was revealed to Paul well after Christ return to heaven.

 

[follower]

Brother, at least you're consistent. There is a brother who refused to answer, and still wished to argue his point. Doesn't work for me. Thanks!

Though I respect your answer, here is the problem I have with that. Jesus, when asked when the Kingdom would come, told his Disciples that they should be engaged in the ministry of evangelism to the world that they were called to.

This assumes a couple of things in my opinion. 1) It assumes they were part of the Gospel being preached to the nations before the end comes. And 2). It assumes that the Disciples were looking forward to the end of the age, when Israel would be restored. This isn't the same thing as looking forward to an any-moment Rapture.

But thanks for answering the question.

This post in part and all together does not make the first moot post un-moot.
See that it makes no difference in whatever point you want to make ?
So then, effectively, my reply is most best, honest.
If you have a point to make, state it clearly and let's see together if it is true , eh ? (without "assuming" anything.

 

[RandyK]

This post in part and all together does not make the first moot post un-moot.
See that it makes no difference in whatever point you want to make ?
So then, effectively, my reply is most best, honest.
If you have a point to make, state it clearly and let's see together if it is true , eh ? (without "assuming" anything.

Since you refuse to answer my question, I have nothing more to discuss with you. Discussion is a 2 way operation--not just your way.

 

[follower]

Discuss your mute point then .... state clearly what difference what you posted makes for anyone , anywhere ?

I don't think you can - it was basically empty post without substance, or if not, what is the point ?

I understand so far that you made the post in error, and are not even embarrassed by it. What was (or is?) the point of the post if any ?
At what point did Christ's coming become imminent ?
His coming has been imminent since day one of Creation!

 

[follower]

For the early church that precluded an any-moment Rapture.

No. Not at all. They expected Jesus to return "imminently"; they eagerly watched every day for their Savior Messiah to return to save them out of this life , all in line perfectly with all of His Word Genesis thru Revelation.

It was only later, when the enemy got in, that different stories were started.

 

[MisterE]

No. Not at all. They expected Jesus to return "imminently"; they eagerly watched every day for their Savior Messiah to return to save them out of this life , all in line perfectly with all of His Word Genesis thru Revelation.

It was only later, when the enemy got in, that different stories were started.

If you look at the post from where you got this, I was describing someone else's position that I don't agree with. Please be careful when you quote someone that you include the context!!!

For sure, the early church was living in hope of an any-moment Rapture.

 

[RandyK]

Discuss your mute point then .... state clearly what difference what you posted makes for anyone , anywhere ?

I don't think you can - it was basically empty post without substance, or if not, what is the point ?

I understand so far that you made the post in error, and are not even embarrassed by it. What was (or is?) the point of the post if any ?
At what point did Christ's coming become imminent ?
His coming has been imminent since day one of Creation!

As I said, I'm not interested in discussing a subject with you when I ask you a question, which to me is central to the point, and you refuse to answer it, calling it a "moot point."

 

[RandyK]

"refuse to answer" is wrong. I 'answered' properly , exposing the mute point (which you have no defense for so far, and likely ever).
If and when a post is made like that, without a valid point, just drop it and start afresh with a better post, with a valid point.

What about "I'm disinterested in discussing this with you" don't you understand?