Plain Spoken Christ

[Hitch]

Can someone make a coherent case for history to continue after the resurrection?

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48I am that bread of life.
49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Hitch]

Guess not.

 

[Elijah674]

Guess not.

Some folks would not 'SEE' it if Christ SPOKE IT TO THEM IN PERSON. Then there are
others that only need to READ HIS INSPIRED DOCUMENTATION. (Regardless of it being stated OVER & OVER!)

Eccl. 1:9-10

Eccl. 3:15

+Gen. 41:32

 

[Stormcrow]

Can someone make a coherent case for history to continue after the resurrection?

Yep. Resurrection was specifically for the children of Israel, who had "fallen asleep" and whose souls languished in Hades.

"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

There was a general resurrection when Christ rose from the dead:

The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52-53 (NASB)

And another resurrection after the tribulation that befell Jerusalem, though I believe that one - rather than being physical - was spiritual:

Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:4-5 (NASB)

The "last day" to which Christ alludes in John is a reference to the "end of the age", when Christ would take the kingdom of God back from those who crucified Him.

We - believing Jews and Gentiles who comprise His kingdom here on earth - are the greatest proof of all that history continued after the resurrection. There is no resurrection for us now. (Hades - the place of "soul sleep" was emptied at the cross.) We go straight to the Father upon our death, passing instantly from life to life.

 

[Hitch]

Yep. Resurrection was specifically for the children of Israel, who had "fallen asleep" and whose souls languished in Hades.

"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

There was a general resurrection when Christ rose from the dead:

The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52-53 (NASB)

And another resurrection after the tribulation that befell Jerusalem, though I believe that one - rather than being physical - was spiritual:

Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:4-5 (NASB)

The "last day" to which Christ alludes in John is a reference to the "end of the age", when Christ would take the kingdom of God back from those who crucified Him.

We - believing Jews and Gentiles who comprise His kingdom here on earth - are the greatest proof of all that history continued after the resurrection. There is no resurrection for us now. (Hades - the place of "soul sleep" was emptied at the cross.) We go straight to the Father upon our death, passing instantly from life to life.

When you can give up the nod to DF (in pink above) I hope you will then return to orthodoxy.

 

[Stormcrow]

When you can give up the nod to DF (in pink above) I hope you will then return to orthodoxy.

Christ took the kingdom away from those who crucified Him in 70 AD. That's when the "last day" and "end of the age" happened. It was a Jewish event.

I don't think that's a very dispy/futurist position.

 

[Hitch]

Christ took the kingdom away from those who crucified Him in 70 AD. That's when the "last day" and "end of the age" happened. It was a Jewish event.

I don't think that's a very dispy/futurist position.

Last day 'of the age' is exactly what DF says.

What Jesus says over and again is last day ,unqualified.

Frankly I dont even want to know where you came up with the idea that only a handful of jews were to be resurrected. That is utter nonsense.

 

[Stormcrow]

Last day 'of the age' is exactly what DF says.

When they use these terms, they are referring to an end of all time, which is what you appear to be arguing.

That's not what Christ or the apostles taught, but I'm not going to belabor the point. I've made it often enough and really don't have the energy to rehash it here.

What Jesus says over and again is last day ,unqualified.

"Last day" of what, Hitch? Nothing in the Bible is "unqualified." What may not be clear in immediate context can certainly be understood letting the Bible interpret itself. Many of these issues can be understood in the light of the Old Testament, as Christ Himself (and His apostles) were Jews under the Law.

Frankly I dont even want to know where you came up with the idea that only a handful of jews were to be resurrected. That is utter nonsense.

I think I made it clear: Daniel 12:1-2

“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. [Who were Daniel's people???]

And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. [Same prophetic language Christ uses in Matthew 24 speaking of the "great tribulation" that would befall Jerusalem.]

But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (ESV)

You see anything here that refers to a bodily resurrection of the Gentiles???

 

[Vic C.]

This post:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=41166&p=619389&viewfull=1#post619389

is loaded with beliefs specific to the full preterist view. Lets keep such views for the preterist sub forum.

Thanks. :nod

 

[Stormcrow]

This post:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=41166&p=619389&viewfull=1#post619389

is loaded with beliefs specific to the full preterist view. Lets keep such views for the preterist sub forum.

Thanks. :nod

Sorry, Vic. I thought I was addressing a challenge raised by Hitch. One shouldn't ask whether something is preterist or not. One should simply ask whether it's true or not.

In a quest for truth, all relevant points of view should be open for examination, and not pigeon-holed into a "doctrinal ghetto."

Just my $.02

 

[Sinthesis]

This all depends on what you mean by "resurrection", and which one, the first or second, and of whom or what.

Jesus was not plain spoken on purpose.:shocked!

 

[Hitch]

This all depends on what you mean by "resurrection", and which one, the first or second, and of whom or what.

Jesus was not plain spoken on purpose.:shocked!

Sometimes