Playing the God Card

[Vince]

You're running some Christian activity, and someone announces "God has told me to..."

All planning, appointments, successful ministries, etc., are cancelled because someone decided "I am led by the Holy Spirit to..."

Whether it's seizing leadership, changing direction, or something else, everyone else is outranked by a person who claims "God has told me to..."

There are actually two main verses that deal with how to handle this, and I want to discuss the problem with others.

 

[Danus]

Can you be more specific and quote the verses?

 

[DarkHorseRising]

You're running some Christian activity, and someone announces "God has told me to..."

All planning, appointments, successful ministries, etc., are cancelled because someone decided "I am led by the Holy Spirit to..."

Whether it's seizing leadership, changing direction, or something else, everyone else is outranked by a person who claims "God has told me to..."

There are actually two main verses that deal with how to handle this, and I want to discuss the problem with others.

Good for them, wish them well and continue on your own thing. Just because God led them to do something doesn't compel you to do it as well. God can speak to you just as easily as them.

 

[Vince]

I had just gotten out of Bible college in the 1970's, and the pastor asked me to take over their children's church, which was running about 175 kids. We had a bus ministry, and many of us worked hard, and the children's church rose to about 300.

One day I was called into a meeting, where the pastor's enraged wife had assembled some enraged women, announcing that God had called her to take over the children's church. She explained that I was an immature Christian and she was a mature one, and that God had called her to leadership positions. I was interfering with God's plan for her life by not putting her in charge.

I pointed out that she was not helping in the children's ministry in any way, and I could not let her be in charge, and of course the pastor gave it to her.

Three years later, they were running ten children. But how could you have known, from the beginning, that God had not put her in charge?

 

[handy]

The key is just what DarkHorseRising said... God can speak to you just as easily as to her.

With her being the pastor's wife, there was probably no way you could have prevented it... but moving forward, there is just no reason to take someone's word that "God told me" if you're doing something and He isn't telling you the same thing.

 

[Adullam]

I had just gotten out of Bible college in the 1970's, and the pastor asked me to take over their children's church, which was running about 175 kids. We had a bus ministry, and many of us worked hard, and the children's church rose to about 300.

One day I was called into a meeting, where the pastor's enraged wife had assembled some enraged women, announcing that God had called her to take over the children's church. She explained that I was an immature Christian and she was a mature one, and that God had called her to leadership positions. I was interfering with God's plan for her life by not putting her in charge.

I pointed out that she was not helping in the children's ministry in any way, and I could not let her be in charge, and of course the pastor gave it to her.

Three years later, they were running ten children. But how could you have known, from the beginning, that God had not put her in charge?

God's ways are certainly mysterious!! ;)

 

[celo]

You're running some Christian activity, and someone announces "God has told me to..."

All planning, appointments, successful ministries, etc., are cancelled because someone decided "I am led by the Holy Spirit to..."

Whether it's seizing leadership, changing direction, or something else, everyone else is outranked by a person who claims "God has told me to..."

There are actually two main verses that deal with how to handle this, and I want to discuss the problem with others.

Finally, someone here can relate to my agnosticism! Although for me, the entire religion is the 'God card'. God never spoke to me about joining any religion or changing my life in any way. To me, that only comes from other people claiming God spoke with them. Or people who follow several books, who claim that those who wrote it claimed that God spoke to them.

Lets leave it at that! But for fun, I'll replace certain words from Vince's quote to describe my attitude.


'You're running some [secular] activity, and someone announces "God has told me to..."

All planning, appointments, successful [secular activities], etc., are cancelled because someone decided "I am led by the Holy Spirit to..."

Whether it's seizing leadership, changing direction, or something else, everyone else is outranked by a person who claims "God has told me to..."



I suppose you couldn't just have said, "Okay, if that's wha-ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL-.... Okay, that was God. He just informed me that he has changed his mind and want's me to continue as leader. He said he is sorry and has been pretty busy but he will contact you later about this."

 

[Chris.]

In genuine cases it takes a lot to stand out and claim divine guidance for fear of ridicule and I believe some people need to do this if God is to work in the leadership of churches.


The trick is to differentiate between the still small voice of God and the still small voice of my own personal desires for gain and my own way. I usually set fleeces to check because if God can tell us something one time he can confirm it at least 2 more times.

 

[Vince]

I appreciate all the thoughtful and courteous answers.

There was more than one way to know that God had not told her to seize the Children's Church, but one of them is found in Galatians 5:19-21. "19Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

The pastor's wife was guilty of more than one of these, and I do not believe that she had ever been born again, but I want to focus on "selfish ambitions." The King James Version translates the word as "strifes," and it refers to people who fight in order to advance themselves through leadership positions.

This is one of the two key passages that are useful in dealing with the God Card: God did not tell anyone to fight their way into higher positions in Christian service.

 

[Pard]

It seems to me that if God wants something very badly than He will have it pass in His time by His means. I don't mean to say that you shouldn't listen to God when He speaks, but I do mean that God isn't going to say to a single person "Go take over that activity being done by that other person." If he wished for that person to take over He may say "Hey, heads up, that's gonna be you someday." And then from there on slowly work you into that place and work that other person out of it.

Look at David and Saul. Saul was king, God destined David to be king. David didn't just walk up to Saul take the crown from his head and kick him out of the high chair, nope he suffered and just kept with it, doing God's desire, until God finally stripped Saul of his kingship and made David king by the people saying "HEY DAVID IS THE KING NOW!"

 

[Chris.]

It seems to me that if God wants something very badly than He will have it pass in His time by His means. I don't mean to say that you shouldn't listen to God when He speaks, but I do mean that God isn't going to say to a single person "Go take over that activity being done by that other person." "HEY DAVID IS THE KING NOW!"

That's the hard bit, identifying the degree ego and self is contributing to discerning Gods will for a situation.

Ideally in a perfect scenario you would be like a conduit for a message passing through without biases tainting it. I know thats a bit impossible to do.

 

[Pard]

That's the hard bit, identifying the degree ego and self is contributing to discerning Gods will for a situation.

Ideally in a perfect scenario you would be like a conduit for a message passing through without biases tainting it. I know thats a bit impossible to do.

Or is it? I don't know. I think this may reflect on our state of being as a Christian body.

We have let the secular world shape us too much! People who talk about hearing God are "crazy", even among brothers and sisters in Christ. People who acknowledge that there really are demons whispering in our ears the blasphemies of the world are required to take medicines for "the voices". We have so many diseases of the mind that any contact with the divine can be instantly ruled as a case of A or B.

I have been working, slowly and maybe not so diligently, at discerning the words of God from all the other voices in my head. It's funny because you begin to recognize those other voices when you start to figure out which one is God. I'm pretty sure I know the voices of at least a few of the demons, I know when the idea in my head is mine and when it is theirs, though I do fear I may be blaming them for things they are not saying. I know my own voice, and though I am not 100% at it yet I am starting to tell when God is speaking. It's a bit harder, though, because I generally don't realize it is His voice until it has already stopped talking.

Nonetheless, my point is that we, as the body of Christ, need to encourage this "division of the voices" (if you will) and help one another work tot he point where we can tell which voice is God. I think that when we get to this point we will be in so much love with Him that we will not even want to corrupt His desire with our heart's.

 

[Vince]

Okay, having learned from Galatians 5:19-21 that people who fight their way into church leadership positions are not obeying God, we continue.

I learned from other Christian school teachers that similar things had happened to them. They would be given a ministry, the ministry would succeed, and then some enraged Christian would demand the leadership. In every case I know of, when someone stole the ministry, it declined. When the person was able to hold onto the ministry God gave him, it continued to succeed.

Jesus taught that God gives responsibilities according to our abilities. The problem is not between Christians with little ability and those with a lot. The problem is between Christians with little ability and those who THINK they have a lot.

 

[former atheist]

Usually, when God calls one of us to do something for his Glory, it isn’t something that we ourselves desire to do or are more than happy to comply with; at least not at first.

Many examples are found in the Bible of God calling upon someone, and that someone resisting God until they finally comply. In the end, God is praised or glorified.

Furthermore, to realize God’s will for another person, it can sometimes be as simple as knowing God in determination of a real calling from God or a personal calling not from God, but derived from Sin. The simplest way to know Gods will from your own will or the will of another in your life is to test it upon the character of God revealed in the Word of God, and through the life of Christ our Lord.

In the example of the Pastors wife taking over, it is at least simple for me to determine that her calling was out of Sin. First, she felt that she was a superior candidate for the position given her maturity verses the current person in the position. God often uses the weak. Secondly, and in my opinion most importantly, it seems she said that it was for her to take over leadership. In my opinion, God leads us always. If God had led her to serve, as a leader should serve, she would have only said that God was calling her to serve. Leadership may have followed in the program after, but the point of being the leader would have been a non-issue.

 

[Vince]

I appreciate the courtesy and thoughtfulness of the people responding on this thread. I had mentioned that there are two verses that deal with this problem.

Some time ago, some Godly saints from the US arrived here in Mexico, announcing that God had called them to start a satellite church of a large mega church in the US. Over a period of months, this house church grew until it ran steadily in the teens. But within five weeks, half the congregation moved out of the area (there was not a church split) and the couple got discouraged and quit.

A few weeks ago, the woman wrote us that God had called them to be our pastors and ordered us to obey them. Can you KNOW that God did not call them to be our pastors?

 

[Vince]

Sometimes people who are not evil announce that God has placed them in a position of authority, or they announce God's will for someone else's life. How do you handle it?

In Deuteronomy 18:22, we are told: "when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him."

These Christians have a track record of announcing God's will, having it fail, and then announcing God's will somewhere else. Folks, you cannot keep making one wrong call after another, and then demand that God's people believe your statements.

 

[Pard]

"I the prophet Ian pronounce that tomorrow shall be called "Thursday", for the Lord has told me such in an vision!" ;)

Couldn't resist, I gotta start my record of positive prophecy somewhere...

That's a good point though. Measure their words against their history. Hard if you don't know them though. I also think there is a difference between the prophets and what they said and what your situation has people saying. Notice now that prophets never really seem get a prophecy for their gain. It is always about another, like "repent" or "there will be no rain until I say otherwise"

 

[John O]

A few weeks ago, the woman wrote us that God had called them to be our pastors and ordered us to obey them. Can you KNOW that God did not call them to be our pastors?

Run from these people as fast as you can! "If you need to tell people you are the leader you are not!" Shane Willard.

Jesus showed us that the greatest in the kingdom is the servant to all. Servant does not mean downtrodden or a doormat but simply that you heart attitude is to serve and build up others. People will flock to a leader who leads like that.

John O

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A few weeks ago, the woman wrote us that God had called them to be our pastors and ordered us to obey them. Can you KNOW that God did not call them to be our pastors?

I've always thought this is a good way to know whether or not someone belongs in the position of ministry they desire: The principle is, start small and wait till others confirm what one thinks God is calling them to:

"7 When he noticed how the guests picked the places of honor at the table, he told them this parable: 8 “When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. 9 If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this man your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. 10 But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all your fellow guests. 11 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” (Luke 14:7-11 NIV1984)

That way you won't be humiliated when it becomes obvious you seized a higher seat of honor than you should have.

If others don't recognize God's grace at work in you to take an exalted position you probably haven't been called to that position.

"7 ...they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews. 8 For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9 James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews." (Galatians 2:7-9 NIV1984)