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Prayer Or The Hospital ?

Lewis

Member
<header id="yui_3_8_1_1_1372921163190_307" class="header"> Court upholds parents' convictions in prayer death

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<cite class="byline vcard top-line"> <abbr>10 hours ago</abbr> </cite>




MADISON, Wis. (AP) — A mother and father who prayed instead of seeking medical help as their daughter died were properly convicted of homicide, the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled Wednesday in a decision that dramatically limits legal immunity for parents who turn to God rather than science to heal their children.
The decision marks the first time a Wisconsin court has addressed criminal culpability in a prayer treatment case where a child died. The court ruled 6-1 that the state's immunity provisions for prayer treatment parents protect them from child abuse charges but nothing else, opening the door to a host of other counts.


"No one reading the treatment-through-prayer provision should expect protection from criminal liability under any other statute," Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson wrote for the majority.
Most states, including Wisconsin, created exemptions from child abuse charges for prayer-healing parents in the 1970s to meet federal requirements.
At least 303 children have died since 1975 after medical care was withheld on religious grounds, according to Rita Swan, director of the Iowa-based advocacy group Children's Healthcare is a Legal Duty. Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska and North Carolina have taken their exemptions off the books, Swan said.


The Wisconsin case revolves around an 11-year-old girl named Madeline Kara Neumann, known as Kara to family and friends. She died of undiagnosed diabetes on Easter Sunday in March 2008 at her home in Weston, a central Wisconsin village about 140 miles north of Madison.
Kara, who had been growing weak for several weeks leading up to her death, eventually became too sick to speak, eat, drink or walk. Her parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, don't belong to any organized religion or church but identify themselves as Pentecostal Christians and believe visiting a doctor is akin to worshipping an idol, the Supreme Court opinion said.


As Kara's condition worsened, her parents resisted suggestions from her grandmother to take her to a doctor. Kara's grandfather suggested giving her Pedialyte, a supplement used to combat dehydration in children, but Leilani Neumann said that would take the glory away from God.
Dale Neumann testified that the possibility of death never entered their minds. After the girl died, Leilani Neumann told police God would raise Kara from the dead.


Doctors testified that Kara would have had a good chance of survival if she had received medical care before she stopped breathing.
Separate juries convicted the couple of second-degree reckless homicide in 2009. They faced up to 25 years in prison, but a judge instead ordered them to serve a month in jail every year for six years, with one parent serving every March and the other every September.


The couple's attorneys argued the immunity clause in Wisconsin's child abuse statutes protects parents from criminal liability through the point of creating a substantial risk of death. The reckless homicide statute says whoever creates a substantial risk of death is guilty of the charge. The attorneys contended the similar language makes it difficult to know when a situation has become so serious that parents who stay with prayer healing become criminally liable.
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FILE - In this May 7, 2008 file photo, Leilani and Dale Neumann leave a Marathon County Circuit Cour …

State attorneys said parents have a legal duty to seek care once they realize a child could die.
The Wisconsin Supreme Court found no ambiguity exists in state statutes.
"If the legislature intended a treatment-through-prayer provision to apply across the board to all criminal statutes, the legislature could have used different language or placed a treatment-through-prayer provision ... with other defenses to criminal liability," Abrahamson wrote.
Justice David Prosser, the lone dissenter, maintained it wasn't clear Kara was in danger of dying and insisted state law is murky on prayer treatment immunity.


"Failing to acknowledge these deficiencies will not advance the long-term administration of justice," Prosser said.
A spokeswoman for the state Justice Department, which defended the convictions, declined to comment.
Dale Neumann's attorney, Steven L. Miller, said the ruling effectively eliminates legal immunity for prayer treatment.
"If I was advising a parent on faith healing, I'd say there is no privilege," Miller said. "They pretty much gutted it."


A spokesman for the Christian Science church, a religious group that embraces faith healing, had no immediate comment.
Norm Fost, a professor of pediatrics and director of the University of Wisconsin-Madison's bioethics program, said it's unfortunate the Supreme Court didn't strike down the exemption completely. Still, he said the ruling sends a message that sticking with prayer treatment when children are obviously seriously ill can result in prosecution.
"The only recourse to deter families from behaving this way is prosecution," said Fost, who consults on child abuse cases and has tracked religious exemptions. "The state cannot tolerate decisions like this that result in serious disability or death of a child."


Rep. Terese Berceau, D-Madison, plans to introduce a bill eliminating the exemption. A similar measure from Berceau in 2009 never got a vote.
"It is a parent's responsibility to ensure the health of their children and, as this case so tragically demonstrates, to set aside their own personal convictions in order to save the life of their child," Berceau said in a statement.
http://news.yahoo.com/
 
As Kara's condition worsened, her parents resisted suggestions from her grandmother to take her to a doctor. Kara's grandfather suggested giving her Pedialyte, a supplement used to combat dehydration in children, but Leilani Neumann said that would take the glory away from God.
Dale Neumann testified that the possibility of death never entered their minds. After the girl died, Leilani Neumann told police God would raise Kara from the dead.

This is a very sad case. It's easy now to condemn these parents for allowing their daughter to die. We have a young friend who developed childhood diabetes and believe me, even with her getting treatment, there are times she suffers from the diease.

I quoted the above from the article. It's clear that these parents held much faith that God would not allow their child to die. And yet... she did. I remember when I was about 13, a very new Christian, being asked to go and lay hands on a dying girl and pray for her. My best friend's dad was an elder of an Assembly of God church and they were trusting that God would heal the girl. She died as well... causing some to lose their faith in God, because everyone was trusting Him to heal and healing did not take place.

I just think it is so sad that children die and parents are prosecuted...and some even lose faith, all because of a very faulty understanding and false expectation that, just because of one or two texts, some will preach and teach that God will always heal and that it's somehow sinful to go to a doctor or hospital. I wonder how many of the Neumann's friends are now accusing them of not having "enough" faith...:gah
 
Most people forget that the book of Acts, which talks the most of divine healing was written by Luke...who was a doctor! So my answer is always both...God can miraculously heal or he can choose to use the doctors and medications to bring healing. Either way, the healing comes from the Lord.
 
Most people forget that the book of Acts, which talks the most of divine healing was written by Luke...who was a doctor! So my answer is always both...God can miraculously heal or he can choose to use the doctors and medications to bring healing. Either way, the healing comes from the Lord.
Yes thank you both for your input' there is a recent case right here' where the parents are accused of doing this twice' here it is I found it. This is recent.
Purported faith-healing couple charged in death of infant son who fell ill


(CNN) -- Parents already on court notice to provide medical care for their children have been charged with third-degree murder in the death of their infant son, Philadelphia authorities announced Wednesday
Herbert and Catherine Shaible's son, Brandon, died April 18 from dehydration and bacterial pneumonia. But his death was ruled a homicide by the Philadelphia medical examiner's office because the Shaibles -- purportedly followers of a faith-healing doctrine -- did not seek medical help for the sick infant, authorities said.
In addition to third-degree murder, the couple was also charged with involuntary manslaughter, conspiracy, and endangering the welfare of a child, Philadelphia district attorney Seth Williams announced Wednesday afternoon at a press conference.
In April the couple admitted to police that their son began displaying symptoms of illness several days before his death but instead of contacting a doctor they chose to pray for him, "and ultimately called a funeral director," according to Williams.
The couple already was on probation after being found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in the 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, Kent, who also died after the Shaibles refused to get medical attention as the child suffered bacterial pneumonia.
One condition of their 10-year probation was a requirement that they seek medical attention and follow medical advice if any of their children were to get sick in the future, First Assistant District Attorney Ed McCann said at the press conference.
Joanne Pescatore, who previously prosecuted the Shaibles in 2009 stated that the circumstances of that case were "eerily similar" to this one.
"To say that I was upset would be an understatement," Pescatore said, "I knew at their sentencing that they were not going to follow the judge's instructions."
Pescatore said that she argued for a prison sentence in the earlier case but the judge didn't feel it was appropriate.
According to McCann, the Shaibles were members of the First Century Gospel Church. Calls to the church were not immediately returned.
The church's website quotes one particular biblical passage that states, "By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name, and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see."
The Shaibles have at least two other children who were taken into the custody of Philadelphia's Department of Human Services following the death of Brandon in April. DHS would not comment on the children or the Shaibles' situation.
McCann stated that because the parents refused to follow the judge's prior orders to seek medical treatment for a sick child and given that this was the second death in the family, the district attorney's office felt a murder charge was appropriate.
Attorney Mythri Annapoorna Jayaraman, who confirmed she is representing the Shaibles, had no comment to CNN Wednesday.
The couple has not yet been arraigned and bail had not been set Wednesday, but McCann said prosecutors will be requesting a bail they believe will be high enough to detain both of them.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/22/us/pennsylvania-faith-healing-death
 
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