Precious no more

[poetofparables]

We are all precious to God, but he must dispense those into the lake of fire. Were those precious to him precious no more?

 

[Willie T]

What, specifically, is the "Lake of Fire". I only know of four places it is mentioned, and they are all from a book that is not literal. So, I assume you have a definition from some other place.

 

[poetofparables]

What, specifically, is the "Lake of Fire". I only know of four places it is mentioned, and they are all from a book that is not literal. So, I assume you have a definition from some other place.

Man oh man...
(This post does not follow the guidelines for this forum, specifically "Do not use phrases such as, “You’re wrong.” This is insulting and inappropriate and there are nicer ways to disagree without being insulting." Obadiah)

 

[Willie T]

See? Because of from whence we take that term, we have no way to know what was truly being spoken of there. If you are going to say you believe in that particular thing, then you have to concede that you also believe all the rest of the things in that book.... in the whole Bible, in fact.

 

[Willie T]

I do believe in some sort of "punishment" that Jesus spoke of in plain discourse, but as I have pointed out, there is a corrective purpose to punishment.
(This post does not follow the guidelines for this forum, specifically "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding.” Obadiah)

 

[Willie T]

Man oh man...

Not trying to put you on the spot, but many of us tend to do this sort of thing... grab a particular phraseology, and run with it like it is somehow completely descriptive, when it well may have been used only as a descriptive example.

The term, "Abraham's Bosom" comes to mind. Mentioned only once in a parable (YES, a parable) we have taken it, and made it a picture of what we conclude Heaven is............ when the Bible is FULL of other descriptive phrases that compare Heaven (or the Kingdom) with a number of things.

 

[poetofparables]

Not trying to put you on the spot, but many of us tend to do this sort of thing... grab a particular phraseology, and run with it like it is somehow completely descriptive, when it well may have been used only as a descriptive example.

The term, "Abraham's Bosom" comes to mind. Mentioned only once in a parable (YES, a parable) we have taken it, and made it a picture of what we conclude Heaven is............ when the Bible is FULL of other descriptive phrases that compare Heaven (or the Kingdom) with a number of things.

Yeah I noticed that, and im tired of it willie.

 

[Willie T]

Then why do it? Just because other people seem to have a need to distort the Bible, does this mean you have to join in?

 

[LovethroughDove]

We are God's harvest. Jesus references us like that. Wheat and tares parable.
(Guidelines for posting in A&T: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Obadiah)

 

[Free]

What, specifically, is the "Lake of Fire". I only know of four places it is mentioned, and they are all from a book that is not literal. So, I assume you have a definition from some other place.

No need. The book of Revelation is highly metaphorical, as is most apocalyptic literature, but metaphors still speak of literal things. In this case, the lake of fire is clearly the final destination of the unbelieving, which is all the understanding needed for the point being made.

 

[Willie T]

Hummm, you don't know what it is, nor where it is, yet you "know" it is the final destination of unbelievers....... even though Jesus never breathed one word, saying that. Why would Jesus always use other words, and never once, "Lake of Fire".

I dunno, but it sounds like you might be doing as so many people do, jumping to assumptions not stated, in the Bible, as factual.

That unbelievers will face "something", does not make the ""punishment" Jesus spoke of, a literal lake of fire.

 

[Free]

Hummm, you don't know what it is, nor where it is, yet you "know" it is the final destination of unbelievers....... even though Jesus never breathed one word, saying that. Why would Jesus always use other words, and never once, "Lake of Fire".

I dunno, but it sounds like you might be doing as so many people do, jumping to assumptions not stated, in the Bible, as factual.

That unbelievers will face "something", does not make the ""punishment" Jesus spoke of, a literal lake of fire.

Seeing as how the lake of fire is found only in Revelation, which we both agree on, why are you now arguing to what Jesus did or didn't say during his ministry? Technically, being God, he did speak of the lake of fire in Revelation. Regardless, looking at all the references for "lake of fire," we find (all ESV):

Rev 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Clearly, it is the final destination for unbelievers. This is indisputable, so I don't see why you are trying to argue against it.

However, to address what Jesus did say, he often spoke of the final destination of unbelievers as gehenna, which of course refers to the Valley of Hinnom outside of Jerusalem. In this valley Ahaz introduced the worship of the fire-gods and the Jews then sacrificed their children to Molech, which was done by fire. It became a dump where bodies of criminals, animal carcasses, and other refuse were burned. Even when not mentioning gehenna specifically, Jesus often referred to the punishment of unbelievers and sinners as including fire (Matt 7:19; 13:40; 25:41, to just give a few).

So it is no far stretch to say that gehenna is Hell proper, the final place of unbelievers, known also as the lake of fire.

 

[Obadiah]

Thread closed as the Original Post does not follow the guidelines for the Apologetics and Theology forum: "Original posts should reference specific scripture and what it is the member wants to say or ask about that scripture."

All members please note other examples of posts here that are outside of the new guidelines. This is not a reprimand to the OP or other members, simply an attempt to give some examples since these guidelines are still new.