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Professor thinks biblical stories are better than Greek myth

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Oedipus wrecks
UIC | Professor thinks biblical stories are better than Greek mythology for psychotherapy


May 12, 2008Recommend (22)

BY MIKE THOMAS Religion Reporter/mthomas@suntimes.com
Goodbye, Oedipus. Hello, Isaac. That's the basic premise of a new online course being offered through the University of Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine.

Funded by a grant from the John Templeton Foundation and titled "A Biblical Approach to Mental Health," the class examines how hope-filled Bible stories can and should substitute for the fatalistic Greek narratives that serve as case studies in traditional psychotherapy. Abraham and Isaac, for instance, would bump Oedipus and Laius.

» Click to enlarge image

Kalman Kaplan and Elizabeth Jones have co-developed a course at UIC College of Medicine called "A Biblical Approach to Mental Health."
(Richard A. Chapman/Sun-Times)


"The Greek notion of a tragedy is that people can't change," says UIC professor of clinical psychology Kalman J. Kaplan, a Fulbright Fellow and widely published author. He'll co-teach the course with the help of chaplain Elizabeth Recht Jones, coordinator for UIC's Religion, Spirituality and Mental Health program. "So if you're using stories that imply people can't change, what's the point of doing therapy?"

Abraham, not Oedipus Rex
As mythology buffs and fans of the Doors might recall, Laius' son Oedipus is pre-destined to kill his pop and bed his mom in the strife-rife Greek tale -- so Laius tries to have his boy offed before that happens.

In the Old Testament story, Abraham's nearly sacrificed son Isaac is divinely spared slaughter by Dad's knife and becomes his father's blessed disciple. Instead of discord, there's harmony. Instead of despair, there's joy.

The Western world "has it all reversed," Kaplan says. "They look at the Bible as being an enslaving doctrine. That's not the way we see it at all. It gives people free will. In the Greek world, people are fated. You can't possibly get over any dysfunction."

Next class in September
Dr. Joseph Flaherty, dean of UIC's College of Medicine and a professor of psychiatry, says the new program is reflective of American values and priorities.

"[F]or most people in America, particularly more than other Western countries, religion is very important to them, and they have beliefs in God," he says. "And as a medical school with a very diverse student body and patient body, we have to recognize that."

Not everyone is so supportive. In the mid-'90s, Kaplan grew frustrated at what he said was Wayne State University's failure to recognize the validity of his work in this field. Though a tenured professor at Wayne, he sued the Michigan school. The suit was later dismissed.

"If I'd been an assistant professor, they would have fired me for this stuff," Kaplan says, "and this was the best work I had ever done."

Now, after years of fighting for professional props, the pioneering prof is finally starting to feel some love.

As for the public appeal of his concept, Kaplan thinks there's a natural fit.

"People like stories," he says, "so why shouldn't they like biblical stories?"

The first of three scheduled 12-week sessions began last Monday. The next one starts in September. It costs $1,000.


source: http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/reli ... 12.article
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Its nice to know we can change! I had never thought about this before in Greek myths. I've read some of them and they certainly are very fatalistic in that no one really changes. And it certainly is interesting the Bible is viewed by the world as "enslaving" us when in fact the world is the one truly enslaving themselves by not wanting to change.

God calls each of us to change... it's in the word "repent".... change direction.
 
Well, with just a little research, I found out that Elizabeth Recht Jones is a chaplain,
belongs to the United Church of Christ, http://www.ucc.org/beliefs/statement-of-faith.html
She has also been a pastor, and the bible doesn't condone women pastors or preachers.

Elizabeth Recht Jones, M. Div., is Coordinator for the Program for Religion, Spirituality and Mental Health in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine. Ms. Jones also serves part-time as chaplain at Swedish Covenant Hospital in Chicago.
http://www.swedishcovenant.org/about/
She also facilitates spirituality groups on a regular basis. She has served as a pastor and held several church-related positions.

She's also pretty rich: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... sec=&spon=
 
Veritas said:
Its nice to know we can change! I had never thought about this before in Greek myths. I've read some of them and they certainly are very fatalistic in that no one really changes. And it certainly is interesting the Bible is viewed by the world as "enslaving" us when in fact the world is the one truly enslaving themselves by not wanting to change.

God calls each of us to change... it's in the word "repent".... change direction.

Don't be so quick to accept and embrace things, just because they have "buzzwords" in them that make you feel warm and fuzzy.
Investigate.

I like bible stories, too, they are facts. Yes, they bring about hope, and strength.
But, something about this just doesn't add up, as a truly born again Christian endeavor.
 
I always liked the Greek myths, especially "Pandora's box".


Biblereader said:
I like bible stories, too, they are facts.

Not all, surely? What about the allegorical and metaphorical ones?
 
LauraM said:
I always liked the Greek myths, especially "Pandora's box".


Biblereader said:
I like bible stories, too, they are facts.

Not all, surely? What about the allegorical and metaphorical ones?


Which stories do you think are allegorical or metaphorical?


Do you mean the parables Jesus taught? I wasn't referring to them.
I was referring to the factual accounts such as Noah, Abraham, Isaac,
David, Jacob, Elisha, Elijah, Esther, etc. in Old Testament,
and in New Testament, the factual accounts about Paul, Peter, John, Luke, etc.
 
The Western world "has it all reversed," Kaplan says. "They look at the Bible as being an enslaving doctrine. That's not the way we see it at all. It gives people free will. In the Greek world, people are fated. You can't possibly get over any dysfunction."
Sometimes this is so true!

And as you affirmed Biblereader, I too love the bible stories!

I also love allegory within the story!

Galatians 4:22-31 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a free woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the free woman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from mount Sinai, which brings forth to bondage, which is Hagar. For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, you barren that bear not; break forth and cry, you that travail not: for the desolate has many more children than she who has a husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what says the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
 
Biblereader said:
LauraM said:
I always liked the Greek myths, especially "Pandora's box".


Biblereader said:
I like bible stories, too, they are facts.

Not all, surely? What about the allegorical and metaphorical ones?


Which stories do you think are allegorical or metaphorical?


Do you mean the parables Jesus taught? I wasn't referring to them.
I was referring to the factual accounts such as Noah, Abraham, Isaac,
David, Jacob, Elisha, Elijah, Esther, etc. in Old Testament,
and in New Testament, the factual accounts about Paul, Peter, John, Luke, etc.

I was mainly thinking of the parables, yes.

I'm not going to get into the Noah story, because I know there will be a lot of disagreement, but most Christians nowadays are taught that that, too, is a metaphor (and a very powerful one!).
 
Veritas said:
Its nice to know we can change! I had never thought about this before in Greek myths. I've read some of them and they certainly are very fatalistic in that no one really changes. And it certainly is interesting the Bible is viewed by the world as "enslaving" us when in fact the world is the one truly enslaving themselves by not wanting to change.
God calls each of us to change... it's in the word "repent".... change direction.


Biblereader said:
Don't be so quick to accept and embrace things, just because they have "buzzwords" in them that make you feel warm and fuzzy.
Investigate.

I like bible stories, too, they are facts. Yes, they bring about hope, and strength.
But, something about this just doesn't add up, as a truly born again Christian endeavor.

It may not be, but I believe God can make good out of non-ideal situations as well. I'll certainly point out this knowledge of "change" to someone if I'm talking to them and the subject of Greek history comes up. And, if someone's moving towards Christ I'll encourage that. Yes, I'm aware that the UCC is moving towards alot of confusion and relativism and I certainly do not encourage that. I agree with you that the bible stories have alligorical truth that bring hope but are deeper than that, they are real history. They truely bring real hope.

But I appreciate your investigation, if she really is NOT born again into Christ, and I happen to meet her, I'll bring up her own conclusions posted above and witness from that. :wink:
 
LauraM said:
I'm not going to get into the Noah story, because I know there will be a lot of disagreement, but most Christians nowadays are taught that that, too, is a metaphor (and a very powerful one!).
I'm so sorry you don't trust the Bible to be the Truth, the Whole Truth, and God's Word.
You CAN trust the bible, and you can be truly born again.
Simply do this, tonight, or right now:
9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


If you're saved, this won't offend you in the least.
I've discovered that to be the case. Jesus Christ died for your sins, and all you have to do is what these verses say, and you will instantly be born again, and all your sins forgiven!
Do it today!
Isnt' that sad, that most Christians are being lied to? That's such a one way ticket to hell.
God says all liars will burn in the Lake of Fire.

Children have been taught NOTHING in schools, the Bible has been taken out of the schools, and the various New Age movements have successfully invaded all areas of religious denomination.
The church I belong to, some of them actually practice yoga and visualization, which is from a very anti-Christian religion. http://www.bigvolcano.com.au/stories/yoga/index.html


The Lord Jesus brought you in here for that reason, among many others.
 
Ok, ok, lets forgo trying to determine who's saved or not based solely on their Biblical knowledge. Here's Laura's intro if you haven't seen it.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=32101

... and where is this doctrine in the Bible that says one must believe the Bible in a literalistic manner to be saved? What has happened to the concept of essential and nonessential doctrine? I agree that there is a slippery slope when approaching the older books in the Bible in a strictly allegorical fashion; one would have to decide at which point to they begin to believe the Bible to be factual and literal. This is why it is best for a new believer to forgo the deeper studies and concentrate on doctrine more Christocentric (Christ-centered).

Leave the heavier stuff for we nutcases in the Apologetics Forum. :-D

Milk before meat, or one may get a case of indigestion. ;-)
 
LauraM said:
I was mainly thinking of the parables, yes.

Oh yeah... I think Jesus' parables are just fantastic. It's kinda neat how each time I look at them I discover something new!
 
vic C. said:
Ok, ok, lets forgo trying to determine who's saved or not based solely on their Biblical knowledge. Here's Laura's intro if you haven't seen it.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=32101

...

I only said it because I CARE about her soul! Please read my profile, in "What's Your Spiritual Gift"

Please don't misunderstand my fervor. I really care, and it grieves me to see what the devil is doing to lost souls.
 
vic C. said:
Ok, ok, lets forgo trying to determine who's saved or not based solely on their Biblical knowledge. Here's Laura's intro if you haven't seen it.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=32101

...

I only said it because I CARE about her soul! Please read my profile,below, found in "What's Your Spiritual Gift"

Please don't misunderstand my fervor. I really care, and it grieves me to see what the devil is doing to lost souls.

OK, here's my number one gift: prophecy.
I am VERY familiar with this gift, and how it affects others.


The results of your Spiritual Gifts Inventory indicate that your number one dominant gift is PROPHECY! That does not mean you are supposed to have visions of the future. It means you are a "forthteller," telling or "speaking forth" the mind of God: preaching, speaking, and teaching God's Word. You are very discerning; one who points out sin with the goal of making Christians aware of sin in their lives so they will repent. A prophet in full-time Christian service is usually a "hell-fire, brimstone preacher." You have the Spirit-given capacity and desire to serve God by proclaiming His truth.

As a prophet you have an ability to see that which is wrong. In fact, you tend to easily spot what is wrong and have to look to find something right. You probably spend much time praying and even weeping over the sins of the church and for lost sinners. You have a great burden over the sinful condition of the world around you. Because of this, you take every opportunity to proclaim that everyone must repent or perish.

You have a strong sense of duty and are very opinionated, impatient, and likely more depressed or serious than lighthearted about life. You enjoy being alone, but would rather be in a group than relate to people one-on-one. You desire to speak publicly. You are able to make quick decisions and want things done right. You do not like in-depth study.
 
vic C. said:
Ok, ok, lets forgo trying to determine who's saved or not based solely on their Biblical knowledge. Here's Laura's intro if you haven't seen it.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=32101

... and where is this doctrine in the Bible that says one must believe the Bible in a literalistic manner to be saved? What has happened to the concept of essential and nonessential doctrine? I agree that there is a slippery slope when approaching the older books in the Bible in a strictly allegorical fashion; one would have to decide at which point to they begin to believe the Bible to be factual and literal. This is why it is best for a new believer to forgo the deeper studies and concentrate on doctrine more Christocentric (Christ-centered).

Leave the heavier stuff for we nutcases in the Apologetics Forum. :-D

Milk before meat, or one may get a case of indigestion. ;-)


Thank you, Vic. I was beginning to wonder if maybe this site wasn't right for me, given some of the comments I've already received. Maybe I should try to find a "Christianity for beginners" site instead?
 
Thank you, Vic. I was beginning to wonder if maybe this site wasn't right for me, given some of the comments I've already received. Maybe I should try to find a "Christianity for beginners" site instead?

While I can understand why you might wonder, I certainly hope you give us a chance, Laura! I've not been on-line for awhile, due to some health issues my hubby is facing but I've had a chance to read through a few of your posts. You seem to be sincerely seeking after Christ's righteousness and I would hope that this is a place where you could find good Christian fellowship. You are most welcome to be here and it's refreshing to have a new babe in Christ around!

In regards to the OP, I am surprised and hopeful at this. Sure, it may be a lot like the Bible as Liturature course that gets taught, a course that seeks to strip the Bible of all supernatural influence and therefore seeks to nullify the power of God. But, come on! WE know that God's power cannot be nullified and I believe when we expose folks to God's Word, good things can happen.

Especially encouraging to me is the fact that this is being taught at University level pyschology. As Kaplan pointed out, the University blew off his work:

"If I'd been an assistant professor, they would have fired me for this stuff," Kaplan says, "and this was the best work I had ever done."

And so they would have. It might not be in the way we would like, and it might not be getting done with a right heart, but this represents a positive move and one the church should encourage. Especially in the field of psychology which can be a very dark, depressing place.
 
handy said:
While I can understand why you might wonder, I certainly hope you give us a chance, Laura! I've not been on-line for awhile, due to some health issues my hubby is facing but I've had a chance to read through a few of your posts. You seem to be sincerely seeking after Christ's righteousness and I would hope that this is a place where you could find good Christian fellowship. You are most welcome to be here and it's refreshing to have a new babe in Christ around!
I agree. I would have not grown in strength and Spirit if I only "hung out" with new believers. My milk comment was only made to suggest this:

If you find yourself in over your head, swim back to shore and figure out how far out you can swim. The better you get at swimming, the farther out you can go... just don't give up and leave the beach. :-D

... and remember this; some are here to throw you a life preserver and some are here to hit you with it. ;-) It's up to you to prayerfully consider which is which. Take it all in a constructive way.
 
... and remember this; some are here to throw you a life preserver and some are here to hit you with it.

I love that quote !
 
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