Prophet David knew Christ is the Rock of his Salvation: He put his ADE in a Messianic Psalm

[Alfred Persson]

Read the exegesis first, then the conclusion at the end. David knew Christ is the Rock:

He also brought me up out of a horrible (07588 שָׁאוֹן sha’own) pit (0953 בּוֹר bowr), Out of the miry (03121 יָוֵן yaven) clay (02916 טִיט tiyt)

1 I waited patiently for the LORD; And He inclined to me, And heard my cry.
2 He also brought me up out of a horrible pit, Out of the miry clay, And set my feet upon a rock, And established my steps.
3 He has put a new song in my mouth– Praise to our God; Many will see (07200 רָאָה ra’ah) it and fear, And will trust in the LORD.
4 Blessed is that man who makes the LORD his trust, And does not respect the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies. (Ps. 40:1-4 NKJ)

Notes:

The bôr šāʾôn (desolate pit) and ṭîṭ hayyāwēn (wet clay) both refer poetically to the place of the dead, a place of separation from God (cf. Ps. 30:3; 69:2, etc.). The image, which was characteristic not only within Israel but also among Israel’s neighbors, evokes the image of a body being buried.”-Jacobson, R. A., & Tanner, B. (2014). Book One of the Psalter: Psalms 1–41. In E. J. Young, R. K. Harrison, & R. L. Hubbard Jr. (Eds.), The Book of Psalms (p. 375). William B. Eerdmans Publishing

07200 רָאָה ra’ah {raw-aw’}
Meaning: 1) to see, look at, inspect, perceive, consider 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to see 1a2) to see, perceive 1a3) to see, have vision 1a4) to look at, see, regard, look after, see after, learn about, observe, watch, look upon, look out, find out 1a5) to see, observe, consider, look at, give attention to, discern, distinguish 1a6) to look at, gaze at.- Strong’s Dictionary.

The two major religious schools of Jesus’ Day (Hillel, Shammai) taught postmortem opportunity . From this context they gleaned two additional names for Gehenna:

I.19 A. Said R. Joshua b. Levi, “Gehenna has seven names and these are …
E. “ ‘tumultuous pit’: ‘He brought me up also out of the tumultuous pit, out of the miry clay’ (Ps. 40:3);
F. “ ‘miry clay’: ‘He brought me up also out of the tumultuous pit, out of the miry clay’ (Ps. 40:3). .”-Erubin 19a, Neusner, J. (2011). The Babylonian Talmud: A Translation and Commentary (Vol. 3, p. 94). Hendrickson Publishers.

“He has put a new song in my mouth”
“The phrase “new song” occurs nine times in Scripture… In every instance, the reference is to a song of praise addressed to God, usually because of his salvation of people.
• Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy (Ps. 33:3).
• He put a new song in my mouth, a hymn of praise to our God (Ps. 40:3).
• Sing to the LORD a new song; sing to the LORD, all the earth (Ps. 96:1).
• Sing to the LORD a new song, for he has done marvelous things (Ps. 98:1).
• I will sing a new song to you, O God; on the ten-stringed lyre I will make music to you (Ps. 144:9).
• Sing to the LORD a new song, his praise in the assembly of the saints (Ps. 149:1).
• Sing to the LORD a new song, his praise from the ends of the earth (Isa. 42:10).
• And they sang a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation” (Rev. 5:9).
• And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth (Rev. 14:3).”-Easley, K. H. (1998). Revelation (Vol. 12, pp. 100–101). Broadman & Holman Publishers.

Notes end.

Prophet David’s After Death Experience imparts truth “many will see” (LXX ὄψονται Ps. 51:8; 107:42; Ac. 2:17; Rom. 15:21; Rev. 22:4) and fear turning aside from the God of Salvation, unto lies.

Figurative language describes David’s experience of the pit of destruction; any slip of the foot, as on miry clay could begin the descent into eternal death. Patiently David waited trusting in the LORD, and his faith was rewarded. David’s feet divinely set securely on the rock of his Salvation, establishing his feet on the path of life. Therefore, David sings the new song of the redeemed. Many eyes see and learn fear of the LORD, trusting only in Him and they will not turn to lies that destroyed all going down into the pit.

From the Messianic context of this prophecy (Psalm 40:6-10; Heb. 10:5-9) the Rock in this context is Christ, hence he sings a new song of salvation (comp. Rev. 5:9; 14:3).

 

[Alfred Persson]

Is Christ's After Death Experience "unorthodox"?


18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us-- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him. (1 Pet. 3:18-4:1 NKJ)

"AFTER Death Experience" is a more accurate term for an actual event like Christ Experienced. Its not considered a possible "hallucination" by advocates because it refers to experiences after the brain has died. Nothing in scripture is a hallucination.

I am NOT the only Orthodox Commentator that classifies David's testimony as a "Death Experience".

David had a near-death experience that he describes in Ps 30.-Hamilton, J. M., Jr. (2021). Psalms (T. D. Alexander, T. R. Schreiner, & A. J. Köstenberger, Eds.; Vol. 1, p. 352). Lexham Academic.

Regardless of the origin of the psalm, it is a powerful reminder of the difference God can make in a person’s life when things are going badly. The psalmist writes of being in the depths, of enemies eager to gloat over his vulnerable position, and perhaps even a near-death experience (30:1–3). Yet God had responded with deliverance, healing, and life.-Longman, T., III, ed. (2010). Psalms thru Song of Songs (Vol. 5, p. 29). Barbour Publishing.

David writes this psalm as a man who has just come out of a near-death experience.-Smith, J. J., & Akin, D. L. (2022). Exalting Jesus in Psalms 1–50 (D. Platt, D. L. Akin, & T. Merida, Eds.; p. 227). Holman Reference.

The point is not that David had actually died and been buried in the grave. Rather, “grave” (Hebrew, Sheol) simply depicts forcefully a near-death experience.-Barker, K. L. (1995). Praise. In Cracking old testament codes: a guide to interpreting literary genres of the old testament (p. 226). B&H Academic.

1–7. Hezekiah’s near-death experience occurs ‘in those days’, a time that can be set just prior to or during the Assyrian threat of 701 BC.-Wray Beal, L. M. (2014). 1 & 2 Kings (D. W. Baker & G. J. Wenham, Eds.; Vol. 9, p. 480). Apollos; InterVarsity Press.

Move my posts back to Theology. They are NOT unorthodox.

They should have been left in Apologetics, where I put them. Then you unorthodox folks could try prove your points, instead of smearing it as "unorthodox".

 

[hawkman]

Move my posts back to Theology. They are NOT unorthodox.

https://christianforums.net/forums/talk-with-staff-report-an-issue.59/

 

[hawkman]

First we have you talking about David's ADE .

Prophet David’s After Death Experience imparts truth “many will see”

Now it is a NDE , big difference .

David had a near-death experience that he describes in Ps 30.

perhaps even a near-death experience

David writes this psalm as a man who has just come out of a near-death experience

depicts forcefully a near-death experience

 

[Alfred Persson]

First we have you talking about David's ADE .




Now it is a NDE , big difference .

If you had a legit scriptural comment, you should have made it in apologetics. Here you smeared the post as "unorthodox". Put it back in apologetics and refute it if you can. Its your beliefs that are "unorthodox" viewing them from a NT Scriptural perspective.

And I can prove it. In apologetics. Not here. You smeared it here.

 

[hawkman]

If you had a legit scriptural comment, you should have made it in apologetics.

My comment is your are now defending NDE , which I have no problem with , and not the OP subject ADE .

 

[Alfred Persson]

My comment is your are now defending NDE , which I have no problem with , and not the OP subject ADE .

Your beliefs about the afterlife are "Unorthodox" from a 2nd century Christian perspective. Its immaterial the novelties the church adopted centuries later, are what you believe. They remain "unorthodox":

Clement of Alexandria (150–215) Christian teacher at Alexandria who spent his twilight years with his friend Alexander when he became bishop of Jerusalem, had this to say about souls in Hades:

So I think it is demonstrated that God (being good) and the Lord (being powerful) both save with a righteousness and equality that extends to all who turn to God, whether here or elsewhere. For it is not here alone that the active power of God is present. Rather, it is everywhere and is always at work.… For it is not right that those persons [who died before Christ] should be condemned without trial, and that those alone who lived after His coming should have the advantage of the divine righteousness. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, EE Eastern), 2.491. Dead, Intermediate State of The. (1998). In D. W. Bercot (Ed.), A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (p. 192). Hendrickson Publishers.

You can try defending your eisegesis of scripture here, in "Apologetics":

I challenge all apologists: Prove Ps. 30:1-4 does not show Prophet David believed in Postmortem Salvation

You have brought up my soul from Sheol 1 A Psalm of David. A song at the dedication of the temple. I will extol you, O LORD, for you have drawn me up and have not let my foes rejoice over me. 2 O LORD my God, I cried to you for help, and you have healed me. 3 O LORD, you have brought up my soul...

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