Real faces of ecumenicalism!

[PetriFB]

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/Ecume ... f_the_Pope


Ecumenical work is a very popular concept nowadays. What does this mean? In the Religious world it means that all religions can be one in a way that they can accept one another as ways to God. The Pope who is the principal head of the Catholic Church speaks on ecumenism as the visible unity of all churches and that all religions lead to God.



The word ecumenism comes from the Greek word oikumene which means the inhabited earth or the world; during the time of the Roman Empire it meant all the subjects of the empire. However, Jesus Christ did not speak about ecumenism, but of unity between those believers who are born of the Spirit of God.

 

[mutzrein]

Yes, one of the many faces of Catholicism. Thankyou for the insight and enjoyed having a browse at your web site too.

 

[PetriFB]

Yes, one of the many faces of Catholicism. Thankyou for the insight and enjoyed having a browse at your web site too.

May God bless you with all heavenly treasures in the Messiah Yeshua!

 

[MrVersatile48]

Worth printing this part of the homepage too:-


John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.



The question of oneness here is not from ecumenism. Jesus said, that believers would be one (Greek eis = one) just as the Father and the Son are one. In the oneness of the Father and the Son is not falsehood and not serving of idols, but love, truth, holiness, righteousness......and so on. The prayer of Jesus urges His disciples to this oneness which is consistent with the truth of God. In John 17:21 the word oikumene: ecumenism does not appear.



The word oikumene appears in the Bible in the following instances:



Matthew 24:14 and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the entire world (oikumene) for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.



The gospel, the message of salvation in Christ must be preach in the entire world. Oikumene is not the congregation, but the world, according to the Bible.



Luke 4:5 and the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world (oikumene) in a moment of time.



Oikumene means the world, and not believers.



Acts 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout the entire world (oikumene): which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.



Oikumene means the world, and not believers.


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Back with 1/2 useful links to illuminate any puzzled readers...

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... highlight=

That thread links to others on the phoney Da Vinci Code & Gospel of Judas, etc

God bless!

Ian

 

[thessalonian]

It would help if you people actually studied and understood Ecumenism in the Catholic Church from the docuements on teh subject put out by the Catholic Church. Ecumenism in the Catholic Church IS NOT touchy feel good, I'm okay where I am at and you are okay where you are at. It is a dialogue to find out what we have in common as well as where we differ. It is about understanding. No it is not about multiple paths to God. Tommorrow someone will post "NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH" and the understanding of it will contradict what ecumenism in the Catholic Church is. Pope JP II encouraged ecumenism yet also spoke against indifferentism which says that one religion is as good as another in getting to heaven. You folks really need to stop trying to expound upon Catholicism. You only show your ignorance of it.

Ecumenism in the Catholic Church does not by definition include non-Christian religions. That is called religous dialogue.

Thanks for posting this thread as it shows that you and your weblinks are not reliable sources of Catholic theology. How about trying the Catechism and Cathoolic Documents. Oh, no, we can't do that. They don't twist Catholic theology to our advantage. :-? Seems the general practice on this board is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". As long as they are preaching the Gospel of anti-cathoilcism all is well.

 

[thessalonian]

By the way, the ecumenism that you speak of and criticize is quite alive and well on this board. There are those who deny the divinity of Christ and the Trinity. Some on this very thread. Yet little is ever said of the path that they are on.

 

[thessalonian]

By the way, what evidence do you have that that is a shiva priestess? This garbage has been posted before on this website. I't pathetic.

 

[PetriFB]

By the way, what evidence do you have that that is a shiva priestess? This garbage has been posted before on this website. I't pathetic.

In reality, it makes NO difference WHAT this thing is called which this woman is doing to JP-2, because the point which seems to have been lost in all of this is that, once again, as in the case of the NUDE NOVUS ORDO RITE, briefly explained and linked above, JESUS CHRIST, the Eternal High Priest, DID NOT INCLUDE ANY KIND OF CEREMONY LIKE THIS IN THE MASS HE PERFECTLY INSTITUTED ON THAT FIRST HOLY THURSDAY EVENING and the Holy Apostles certainly did not include any such secular or pagan religious ceremonies, as the case might be, by whatever name, in their Masses either!!!

http://catholic.shrineofsaintjude.net/homec082.html

 

[PetriFB]

In the picture is Pope John's XXIII medal, where it says: Pontifex Maximus.

Romans believed that gods have an affect and commanding in seven hills of Rome "De septem montibus virum". From this formed concept to Romans; High town of seven hill, which rules whole world. Romans believed, that their must rule whole world under the leadership of Jupiter high priest (Pontifex Maximus). Symmachus, who was the high priest of Rome (Pontifex Maximus) called himself for the man of the seven mountain.

According to Romans opinion, the world can only rule he who rules in Rome, in the town of seven hill. Julius Caesar got title Pontifex Maximum and like this emperors started use also themselves this title. The emperors led state and also religious life of Rome, because emperor was principal of religion, the high priest (Pontifex Maximus).

Also Popes hold themselves as heir of gentile Jupiter high priest (Pontifex Maximus) and Roman Catholic Church openly admit this, because they have imprinted name of Pontifex Maximus to meant to be a Pope!

Jupiter high priest (Pontifex Maximus) cult is service of idols. Like this we can see to whom Catholic Church of Rome worships and serves.

 

[thessalonian]

Petri,

Evidently you do not know that Paul quoted pagan sages. He used an altar to an unknown God to explain Jesus Christ to the Athenians. Peter used a pagan name for hell. Pauls ideas about the body of Christ, expressed in Romans 12 and 1 Cor 12 have counterparts in pagan writings that he likely had access to and had read. We worship either on Saturday (for some of you seventh day types) or Sunday, oh my paganism. Why don't you go by the wording of the Bible, 1st day of the week, second day..... Oh, only when Catholicism is being spoken of is any link that might be conjured up to paganism spoken of. Your prejudice that you spread to others is truly sad petri. I will pray for you and those whom you lead astray with such posts. Protestants like you feel the need to stip cultures of all that is in them. Indians need to become Europeans essentially. That was not Pauls method in Acts 17 in the Aeropogus. neither is it the method of the Bible. Culture needs to be redeemed by Christ. Not destroyed. Transformed and reformed. Not buried.

 

[PetriFB]

Petri,

Evidently you do not know that Paul quoted pagan sages. He used an altar to an unknown God to explain Jesus Christ to the Athenians. Peter used a pagan name for hell. Pauls ideas about the body of Christ, expressed in Romans 12 and 1 Cor 12 have counterparts in pagan writings that he likely had access to and had read. We worship either on Saturday (for some of you seventh day types) or Sunday, oh my paganism. Why don't you go by the wording of the Bible, 1st day of the week, second day..... Oh, only when Catholicism is being spoken of is any link that might be conjured up to paganism spoken of. Your prejudice that you spread to others is truly sad petri. I will pray for you and those whom you lead astray with such posts. Protestants like you feel the need to stip cultures of all that is in them. Indians need to become Europeans essentially. That was not Pauls method in Acts 17 in the Aeropogus. neither is it the method of the Bible. Culture needs to be redeemed by Christ. Not destroyed. Transformed and reformed. Not buried.

Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

 

[thessalonian]

duplicate

 

[thessalonian]

From the CCC

666 Jesus Christ, the head of the Church, precedes us into the Father's glorious kingdom so that we, the members of his Body, may live in the hope of one day being with him for ever.

792 Christ "is the head of the body, the Church." He is the principle of creation and redemption. Raised to the Father's glory, "in everything he [is] preeminent," especially in the Church, through whom he extends his reign over all things.


669 As Lord, Christ is also head of the Church, which is his Body. Taken up to heaven and glorified after he had thus fully accomplished his mission, Christ dwells on earth in his Church. The redemption is the source of the authority that Christ, by virtue of the Holy Spirit, exercises over the Church. "The kingdom of Christ [is] already present in mystery", "on earth, the seed and the beginning of the kingdom".

747 The Holy Spirit, whom Christ the head pours out on his members, builds, animates, and sanctifies the Church. She is the sacrament of the Holy Trinity's communion with men.


2045 Because they are members of the Body whose Head is Christ, Christians contribute to building up the Church by the constancy of their convictions and their moral lives. The Church increases, grows, and develops through the holiness of her faithful, until "we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."

1348 All gather together. Christians come together in one place for the Eucharistic assembly. At its head is Christ himself, the principal agent of the Eucharist. He is high priest of the New Covenant; it is he himself who presides invisibly over every Eucharistic celebration. It is in representing him that the bishop or priest acting in the person of Christ the head (in persona Christi capitis) presides over the assembly, speaks after the readings, receives the offerings, and says the Eucharistic Prayer. All have their own active parts to play in the celebration, each in his own way: readers, those who bring up the offerings, those who give communion, and the whole people whose "Amen" manifests their participation.

1119 Forming "as it were, one mystical person" with Christ the head, the Church acts in the sacraments as "an organically structured priestly community." Through Baptism and Confirmation the priestly people is enabled to celebrate the liturgy, while those of the faithful "who have received Holy Orders, are appointed to nourish the Church with the word and grace of God in the name of Christ."

I'll stop there, though there were 74 hits on my search through the CCC. And your point was?
:-?

 

[PetriFB]

From the CCC

666 Jesus Christ, the head of the Church, precedes us into the Father's glorious kingdom so that we, the members of his Body, may live in the hope of one day being with him for ever.

792 Christ "is the head of the body, the Church." He is the principle of creation and redemption. Raised to the Father's glory, "in everything he [is] preeminent," especially in the Church, through whom he extends his reign over all things.


669 As Lord, Christ is also head of the Church, which is his Body. Taken up to heaven and glorified after he had thus fully accomplished his mission, Christ dwells on earth in his Church. The redemption is the source of the authority that Christ, by virtue of the Holy Spirit, exercises over the Church. "The kingdom of Christ [is] already present in mystery", "on earth, the seed and the beginning of the kingdom".

747 The Holy Spirit, whom Christ the head pours out on his members, builds, animates, and sanctifies the Church. She is the sacrament of the Holy Trinity's communion with men.


2045 Because they are members of the Body whose Head is Christ, Christians contribute to building up the Church by the constancy of their convictions and their moral lives. The Church increases, grows, and develops through the holiness of her faithful, until "we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."

1348 All gather together. Christians come together in one place for the Eucharistic assembly. At its head is Christ himself, the principal agent of the Eucharist. He is high priest of the New Covenant; it is he himself who presides invisibly over every Eucharistic celebration. It is in representing him that the bishop or priest acting in the person of Christ the head (in persona Christi capitis) presides over the assembly, speaks after the readings, receives the offerings, and says the Eucharistic Prayer. All have their own active parts to play in the celebration, each in his own way: readers, those who bring up the offerings, those who give communion, and the whole people whose "Amen" manifests their participation.

1119 Forming "as it were, one mystical person" with Christ the head, the Church acts in the sacraments as "an organically structured priestly community." Through Baptism and Confirmation the priestly people is enabled to celebrate the liturgy, while those of the faithful "who have received Holy Orders, are appointed to nourish the Church with the word and grace of God in the name of Christ."

I'll stop there, though there were 74 hits on my search through the CCC. And your point was?
:-?

The Bible speaks about Babylon, which means confusion by mixing. That is RCC:

964 Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";502 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:



966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."506 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:



967 By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "pre-eminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus) 508 of the Church.



968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Saviour’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."509



969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."510

So you see that RCC mix up things by saying about Jesus and Mary. RCC proclaim Mary very high position, because RCC teaches that when Mary was taken up to heaven she did not lay aside her saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring catholics the gifts of eternal salvation. Therefore RCC calls Mary as Mediatrix.

Jesus Christ has saving office, not Mary. Jesus Christ brings eternal salvation, not Mary. Jesus Christ is Mediator between man and God.

We can't teach confusion by mixing things as RCC have done!

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[mutzrein]

Good grief. They actually believe that? Well I suppose if your salvation hinges on it, you'll believe anything. What scriptures was that doctrine taken from?

 

[thessalonian]

Ah the old sliding issue tactic. Tell me Petri, does the Catholic Church believe Christ is the head of the Church or not? You have born false witness. Acknowledge that you did and move on. Then I will speak about the paragraphs you cite in the CCC. Your commentary on the bottom of the post contains more distortions of Catholic teaching. They will be exposed in due time. Stay tuned folks. :o