Recognizing the Tares

[Vince]

Do you know why some of you have had very bad experiences in church? In the coming days, I want to explain some things from Matthew 13:

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "

 

[Elijah674]

Thesetwo class cannot be known by man as different. The reason why is because tares are not OPEN sinners. Open sin is to be dealt with as Christ docuented in Matt. `8:15-18. (that is why you see Rev. 17:1-5 in open sin and as such)

And if a 'whole' church like these ones will not do as Christ directed? They will be removed as Partakers, & another put in its place! Rev. 2:5

--Elijah

 

[Vince]

Notice in verse 25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat ..."

Satan sows his tares secretly. Galatians 2:4 tells us how salvation by works entered Christianity: "And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),"

Jude 4 tells us how modernism entered Christianity: "For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ."

When dealing with these types of people, you do well to remember that they are not genuine Christians, and it is not God who put them among us.

 

[Elijah674]

Notice in verse 25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat ..."

Satan sows his tares secretly. Galatians 2:4 tells us how salvation by works entered Christianity: "And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),"

Jude 4 tells us how modernism entered Christianity: "For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ."

When dealing with these types of people, you do well to remember that they are not genuine Christians, and it is not God who put them among us.

I surely agree with much of that. One never knows who is standing behind a pulpit? But my take on this is not the Rev. 17:1-5 ones per/say, (who are already captured) but the last one of Rev. 3's Virgin candlestick! Ibide 16-17 They to have known open sinners who are no longer secret tares who stand behind their pulpits teaching opposite Joshus 7's Partaking Truths! (forum: see Joshua 7:12's last part of the verse if one believes the Word of God)

--Elijah

 

[Vince]

"his enemy ... went his way"

We often miss this important point: SATAN DOES NOT TRAIN THE TARES. WE DO. We teach lost church people to memorize John 3:16, how to act properly, how to pray, Biblical doctrine, etc. Satan stays out of it. That's why they look and act like Christians when they start out.

 

[Hitch]

Its interesting that the parable is silent wrt the tares ability to change into wheat.

 

[Vince]

So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'

There's an important point here. The SERVANTS noticed the tares. Not the bishops, elders, pastors, teachers, etc. Depending on which translation you're using, this Greek word "servants" is translated "deacons," "ministers," "slaves," or "servants" elsewhere in the New Testament. It refers to "menial servants."

In the parables of Jesus, the servants are the soul-winners. In Acts and the epistles, the servants do menial tasks, teach the Word to the saved, teach the Word to the lost, and are sometimes given authority to perform specific tasks. It is Christians who are actually DOING God's work who spot the tares, perhaps because the tares are attacking the servants.

 

[Eventide]

The words of eternal life..

IMO one of the vital things to glean here is that the wheat is a result of the word of God.. that's the good seed, the incorruptible word of God which lives and abides for ever.. and this is how Peter tells us that we were born again Spiritually.. by the word of God.. for His words are spirit and they are life..

 

[Elijah674]

So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'

There's an important point here. The SERVANTS noticed the tares. Not the bishops, elders, pastors, teachers, etc. Depending on which translation you're using, this Greek word "servants" is translated "deacons," "ministers," "slaves," or "servants" elsewhere in the New Testament. It refers to "menial servants."

In the parables of Jesus, the servants are the soul-winners. In Acts and the epistles, the servants do menial tasks, teach the Word to the saved, teach the Word to the lost, and are sometimes given authority to perform specific tasks. It is Christians who are actually DOING God's work who spot the tares, perhaps because the tares are attacking the servants.

What would Saul be in Acts 7 & 8 + some of Acts 9? or even Peter when Christ told satan to get behind Me, while talking to Peter? Both had not been converted yet, but are we hearing that they were wheat?? Interesting! But I do not think anyone knows who the tares are. But again, we are to JUDGE [AS A CHURCH BODY] OPEN SINNERS. They are to be removed as what?? Yet, there is a loving purpose for that. One being that they might be reclaimed after being turned over to satan. See 1 Cor. 5:3-5 And that is only known by God alone, huh?

Another is found in 1 Tim. 1:17-20 even with a thought of Christ being King Eternal, ... Immortal, and then these two who made 'shipwreck'

But again the point is, is that Christ did indeed 'document' Matt. 18:17-18 as GOSPEL TRUTH!

And there will be NO loose go it alone ones who cannot be unified in His Word in heaven ever again. These ones would be tares! Matt. 6:24 finds just two, one wheat & the other Tares. 666 will seperate these into just the two camps.
And most are already in solid spiritual concrete & have decided there fate. Rev. 17:1-5.

---Elijah

 

[Vince]

Some things to notice about the servants:

1) They told the owner of the vineyard, but they didn't tell anybody else.
2) They didn't accuse anybody by name.

While the Scriptures do not forbid either practice, they generally don't work.

Matthew 15:13-14 tells us: " But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."

 

[Elijah674]

Some things to notice about the servants:

1) They told the owner of the vineyard, but they didn't tell anybody else.
2) They didn't accuse anybody by name.

While the Scriptures do not forbid either practice, they generally don't work.

Matthew 15:13-14 tells us: " But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."

No names is the point, right? For NO ONE KNOW WHO IS A LOST TARE! Yet, the false doctrinal teachings are to be signaled out!

And what INDIVIDUAL that is 'knowingly' doing so, is not a tar at that time?? And who in their past LOST TARES STATE of 1 Cor. 6:9-11, had not been changed from a tare to a ex/tare?? John 3:3-8

And 'i' am not talking of the Godheads Eternal befor/knowledge! But about when or if 'one' chooses the Eternal CONDITIONS that are laid down to seperate the two. Eze. 33:11 & verse 19 + even verse 9 & Eze. 18:24-25 & verse 32.

Deut. 30:19 'I call [heaven and earth to record] this day against you, [that I have set before you life and death], ... [therefore choose life that both thou and thy seed may live.]'

Josh. 24:15 'CHOOSE YE THIS DAY WHOM YE WILL SERVE]..'

The same Holy Spirit who was STRIVING with Noah's preaching (Gen. 6:3) for 120 years to 'SURRENDER' (for the above ones) has appeared to all of mankind with the same results. Yet, it was, is, & always will have been 'their' free choice! Matt. 7 + Rev. 17:1-5.

--Elijah

 

[childeye]

No names is the point, right? For NO ONE KNOW WHO IS A LOST TARE! Yet, the false doctrinal teachings are to be signaled out!

And what INDIVIDUAL that is 'knowingly' doing so, is not a tar at that time?? And who in their past LOST TARES STATE of 1 Cor. 6:9-11, had not been changed from a tare to a ex/tare?? John 3:3-8

And 'i' am not talking of the Godheads Eternal befor/knowledge! But about when or if 'one' chooses the Eternal CONDITIONS that are laid down to seperate the two. Eze. 33:11 & verse 19 + even verse 9 & Eze. 18:24-25 & verse 32.

Deut. 30:19 'I call [heaven and earth to record] this day against you, [that I have set before you life and death], ... [therefore choose life that both thou and thy seed may live.]'

Josh. 24:15 'CHOOSE YE THIS DAY WHOM YE WILL SERVE]..'

The same Holy Spirit who was STRIVING with Noah's preaching (Gen. 6:3) for 120 years to 'SURRENDER' (for the above ones) has appeared to all of mankind with the same results. Yet, it was, is, & always will have been 'their' free choice! Matt. 7 + Rev. 17:1-5.

--Elijah

I find your reasoning hard to follow, respectfully. You show above a good insight in your describing "the eternal conditions that are laid down to seperate the two". This is a very objective point of view. But then you claim it was, is, & always will have been their free choice. These negate each other in my reasoning. If the choice is free, then they decide if they are tares or not. Since the scripture states that the children of God are made so not by the will of men, there is a disconnect. Moreover the parable claims the seed that is planted is good seed which does not imply the seed is freely changeable. This parable is about why there are bad seeds in the field and they are attributable to Satan, not to men's "freewill". I detest this freewill theology as described in this manner. Ask me why later. Ezekial 33 is not an explanation of freewill, but is a description of the unfairness to God wherein men think they have one as pertains to vanity. This of course will be argued depending on ones definition of freewill.

In fact there are ways of telling who are the tares and who are the wheat. There are certain characteristics that divide the two. The tares are there to mimic the wheat, the wheat are not there to mimic the tares. Likewise lies exist to hide the Truth, not the Truth exists to uncover the lies. Truth precedes lies in existence even as Holiness precedes corruption. The wheat want to be found. the tares do not. The wheat are willing to die to preach the Truth. The tares are willing to kill to silence it. I am very willing to discuss the merits of freewill theology for the sake of preaching the Truth and this parable is very telltale regarding that.

 

[Elijah674]

I find your reasoning hard to follow, respectfully. You show above a good insight in your describing "the eternal conditions that are laid down to seperate the two". This is a very objective point of view. But then you claim it was, is, & always will have been their free choice. These negate each other in my reasoning. If the choice is free, then they decide if they are tares or not. Since the scripture states that the children of God are made so not by the will of men, there is a disconnect. Moreover the parable claims the seed that is planted is good seed which does not imply the seed is freely changeable. This parable is about why there are bad seeds in the field and they are attributable to Satan, not to men's "freewill". I detest this freewill theology as described in this manner. Ask me why later. Ezekial 33 is not an explanation of freewill, but is a description of the unfairness to God wherein men think they have one as pertains to vanity. This of course will be argued depending on ones definition of freewill.

In fact there are ways of telling who are the tares and who are the wheat. There are certain characteristics that divide the two. The tares are there to mimic the wheat, the wheat are not there to mimic the tares. Likewise lies exist to hide the Truth, not the Truth exists to uncover the lies. Truth precedes lies in existence even as Holiness precedes corruption. The wheat want to be found. the tares do not. The wheat are willing to die to preach the Truth. The tares are willing to kill to silence it. I am very willing to discuss the merits of freewill theology for the sake of preaching the Truth and this parable is very telltale regarding that.

Whatever??? yet, we will know soon enough! But when the forced 666 comes around whose side will most take in satan's forced worship stuff? Remember that Caesar will be required for that! (not Christ) And already Rom. 13 is being tossed around for fighting in WAR executions by most of the Rev. 17:1-5 ones.. even some Bible Belt Baptists, huh! And the old sun. closing laws with many still on the books! And in Baptist country.

How do you think a USA Suprem Court of two non/christian Jews & 6 from rome would rule on that.;) And you know who the tares are, so lets just execute them now, huh!

---Elijah

 

[francisdesales]

How do you think a USA Suprem Court of two non/christian Jews & 6 from rome would rule on that.;) And you know who the tares are, so lets just execute them now, huh!

---Elijah

How about you go back and read the bible again (or for the first time, who can tell) and discover what JESUS said to do in this situation:

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Mat 13:30

 

[francisdesales]

"his enemy ... went his way"

We often miss this important point: SATAN DOES NOT TRAIN THE TARES. WE DO. We teach lost church people to memorize John 3:16, how to act properly, how to pray, Biblical doctrine, etc. Satan stays out of it. That's why they look and act like Christians when they start out.

Indeed, they are PART of the Kingdom, unlike some interpreters would have it, outsiders of the Church...

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Mat 13:41

Many overlook "His Kingdom" here and the connotations of that - there are those in the Church, born again, saved, etc., who are of the Kingdom, and have the potential to be 'gathered up', those who "do iniquity". They were practically inseparable from the "wheat", since tares look just like wheat. They "do church" together, participate in functions, have families, claim to be saved, etc... But some will be gathered up at the end due to their "visible but ignored" or "hidden" iniquities.

Regards

 

[childeye]

Indeed, they are PART of the Kingdom, unlike some interpreters would have it, outsiders of the Church...

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Mat 13:41

Many overlook "His Kingdom" here and the connotations of that - there are those in the Church, born again, saved, etc., who are of the Kingdom, and have the potential to be 'gathered up', those who "do iniquity". They were practically inseparable from the "wheat", since tares look just like wheat. They "do church" together, participate in functions, have families, claim to be saved, etc... But some will be gathered up at the end due to their "visible but ignored" or "hidden" iniquities.

Regards

Francis de Sales, I love the quote at the bottom of your posts.

 

[Elijah674]

Thesetwo class cannot be known by man as different. The reason why is because tares are not OPEN sinners. Open sin is to be dealt with as Christ docuented in Matt. `8:15-18. (that is why you see Rev. 17:1-5 in open sin and as such)

And if a 'whole' church like these ones will not do as Christ directed? They will be removed as Partakers, & another put in its place! Rev. 2:5

--Elijah

Me again: When one reads Gods WORD, what class are these ones in! And the Rev. 18:4 verse has the WHOLE FALSE GARBAGE YOKED TOGETHER IN MEMBERSHIP equally as Partakers!

PRIESTS HIT HARD BY HIDDEN AIDS EPIDEMIC
CNN
January 31, 2000

(AP) -Roman Catholic priests in the United States are dying from AIDS-related illnesses at a rate four times higher than the general population and the cause is often concealed on their death certificates, The Kansas City Star reported in a series of stories that started Sunday.
http://CNN.com/2000/HEALTH/AIDS/01/31/aids.priests/index.html

 

[stovebolts]

Francis and Elijah,

While I do understand your differences, I would like to remind the both of you of our TOS and add that our TOS is designed so that differences such as the two of you have can be hammered out in a constructive way.

While I don't mind a healthy discussion on these opposing views, I'm afraid that if either of you can't stay within the confines of this sites TOS, then perhaps you might try a bit of self control, which after all, as you both well know is a fruit of the spirit.

I do consider both of you friends, as well as Brothers in Christ, and I would hate to issue either of you an infraction over this matter.

I am locking this thread for now, and will be back on Monday to check my PM's in case either of you need to contact me over this incident.

Grace and Peace.