Righteousness

[biblecatholic]

Everyone has/had a chance to know Christ.

what about a pigmy in africa who never met a missionary? what about the only christians someone meets is, say in the k.k.k. who claim to be christian. how on earth could you meet Jesus through a racist. what about joe churchgoer who tells you about Jesus but sure doesnt act like he knows Him. if this was the opportunity to know Christ there aint a chance someone will meet Him. now im not saying that this is a commonality, but i believe it is possible.there are exceptions to the rule, babys, mentally ill, young children and nowhere does it say in scriptures that these exceptions are there. i hope and pray for mercy on all those who dont know Christ.

You are bordering on getting some heat biblecatholic...and I find it interesting you knew it. We all fall short biblecatholic. It doesn't matter if your buddhist friend seems like he has the morality of Christ. Even if he's close, he's fallen short. Guaranteed. Therefore, dead in his sin, and your buddhist friend is doomed to death unless he accepts Christ. Only Christ was perfect and only Christ can please His Father. It's only through Christ that we are saved.

true, we are saved through Christs passion. He did die for all humanity not just the elect. and all im saying is if He can make an exception for babys, mentally ill, and young children that He could and might do the same for someone who never met Him depending if they were searching for truth and never got the whole thing.

Is your friend making Christ proud? Does He accept Christ as his Savior? Is he leading people to believe that Christ died for their sins and that He is their Savior?
And have you told him what Christ has done for us?
John 3:16 and John 14:6 are clear on what is needed.
You see,
There is nothing we can do to make God love us more, and
There is nothing we can do to make God love us less.

i believe that also. the difference is that i believe a human can love God less and we can love Him more. we can even fall out of love with Him.....i did say i know of him not know him .... ive only met him oncebut when i met Him we talked about it.
. he lives a more christian life than most christians. does He make Jesus proud, yes on some areas of life. the areas where he is being like Christ in the way he treats people, yes that makes God proud. then God says why do not all those who say they have faith in Me not act like this. its like in our life God is proud of some stuff and other stuff He's like you say you know me but you didn't act like it.

 

[jgredline]

BC
Your theology is way out in left field....

First study Romans chapter 2....Paul addresses the folks ''who have never heard the Gospel''

Second...How is it possible for your budhist friend to please God when it takes God centered faith to please God?..because there is not one who is righteous, no not one...We are clothed in righteousness ''only'' through Jesus Christ if one is born again.....

Thirdly...Jesus did die for only the Elect...The question is who is the Elect?...If he died for all humanity as you say, then you are back to preaching UR which is against the TOS of this site....

Fourthly....
Good works are evidence of ones salvation...James says ''faith with out works is dead''....This means if one is not producing good works, one must question this person salvation...We shall know a tree by what type of Fruit it produces....Perhaps it is in the way you write, but I keep reading from your post, that in order to continue to be saved, we must ''keep the commandments'' ( do good works)....A born again believer will not have to ''work'' at producing good works as they will flow out of him/her naturally....

As far as Love goes, ''loving God''...That is impossible to do with out the holy Spirit....Scripture tells us that none of us seek after God....It is God who gives us the desire to Love God...How?, by the Holy Spirit....It is called Agape Love...A love that only Comes from God...This type of Love is also what allows me to love you....to love those whom are hard to love.....

I know I am posting allot of stuff and I am hoping in my paraphrasing that you know of what scriptures I am referring to; but if not I will be happy to post them....I am simply typing my thoughts as fast as I can.....

Ok, I think I am done for now....

 

[biblecatholic]

BC
Your theology is way out in left field....
First study Romans chapter 2....Paul addresses the folks ''who have never heard the Gospel''
Second...How is it possible for your budhist friend to please God when it takes God centered faith to please God?..because there is not one who is righteous, no not one...We are clothed in righteousness ''only'' through Jesus Christ if one is born again.....
Thirdly...Jesus did die for only the Elect...The question is who is the Elect?...If he died for all humanity as you say, then you are back to preaching UR which is against the TOS of this site....
Fourthly....

Jesus dies for all humanity. but not all humanity accepts salvation. so not all are saved . the idea of Jesus only dieing for the elect is a doctrine of calvin.

this is from john martignoni
james 5:16 says that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
if absolutely no one is righteous, then who is james talking about?Luke chapter 1 says that Elizabeth and Zechariah were righteous before God. If absolutely no one is righteous, then how can that be? Is Scripture contradicting itself? no, the folks who interpret romans as saying absolutely, without exception, no one is righteous, are misinterpreting that passage. hey are failing to realize that the key to understanding romans 3:10 is the phrase, "it is written."here in romans, paul is quoting from the O.T., psalm 14 to be exact. In psalm 14 it says, "the fool says in his heart, 'there is no God. they are corrupt...there is none that does good.'" but then that same psalm goes on to talk about the "righteous." well, if none has done good, who are these righteous the psalm is talking about? obviously, when the psalmist says that none has done good, he is talking about the fools who say there is no God. he is not talking about absolutely everyone.

Just so Paul when he quotes from this psalm. Paul is not saying absolutely no one is righteous, if he was, then how do you explain all the Old and New Testament passages that refer to the righteous? In Romans 3:11 it says that no one seeks for God. Does that mean that absolutely no one is seeking God? No, to interpret it that way would be ludicrous!

Good works are evidence of ones salvation...James says ''faith with out works is dead''....This means if one is not producing good works, one must question this person salvation...We shall know a tree by what type of Fruit it produces....Perhaps it is in the way you write, but I keep reading from your post, that in order to continue to be saved, we must ''keep the commandments'' ( do good works)....A born again believer will not have to ''work'' at producing good works as they will flow out of him/her naturally....
s far as Love goes, ''loving God''...That is impossible to do with out the holy Spirit....Scripture tells us that none of us seek after God....It is God who gives us the desire to Love God...How?, by the Holy Spirit....It is called Agape Love...A love that only Comes from God...This type of Love is also what allows me to love you....to love those whom are hard to love.....
know I am posting allot of stuff and I am hoping in my paraphrasing that you know of what scriptures I am referring to; but if not I will be happy to post them....I am simply typing my thoughts as fast as I can.....
Ok, I think I am done for now....

everything even the faith we have is impossible without the grace of God. i am saying that you do have to stay with God in order to be saved. the way we look at salvation is "i am saved"(rom 8:24,eph 2:5,8,2 tim 1:9,titus 3:5) "i am being saved "(phil 2:12,1 pet 1:9) and "i will be saved"(mt 10:22,mt 24:13,mk8:35rom 13:11etc) the bible clearly states all 3 of these things and it only makes sense that you have to continue to accept the grace which is given. and about works coming from you, im not arguing that it will come with/without ease im just saying its a requirement of the covenant. if you are lukewarm you are spit out..
God Bless

 

[Veritas]

[quote:5127a]Veritas wrote:
Everyone has/had a chance to know Christ.

biblecatholic wrote:
what about a pigmy in africa who never met a missionary? what about the only christians someone meets is, say in the k.k.k. who claim to be christian. how on earth could you meet Jesus through a racist. what about joe churchgoer who tells you about Jesus but sure doesnt act like he knows Him. if this was the opportunity to know Christ there aint a chance someone will meet Him. now im not saying that this is a commonality, but i believe it is possible.[/quote:5127a]

As far as those who never met a missionary, or met racist people claiming to be christians, or met "poor acting" christians yet are still seeking Him, they will find Him. For we are told:

For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Matthew 7:8

How? Well...

All things are possible with God. Mark 10:27

Those who seek will know Him despite what you've mentioned...

...and I believe God makes his Truth, plain to all:

Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20

biblecatholic wrote:
true, we are saved through Christs passion. He did die for all humanity not just the elect.

I agree God wants all to be saved:

God our Savior...wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4

And I don't think there is too much wrong with hoping and praying that everyone will be saved (other than the fact that you may not be respecting other's freedom in doing so). And you and I both know that all won't be saved. It's not how Love works. God lets us reject Him.

and all im saying is if He can make an exception for babys, mentally ill, and young children that He could and might do the same for someone who never met Him depending if they were searching for truth and never got the whole thing.

How do you know He IS making an exception for babys, mentally ill, and young children? They may not appear as smart or be able to comminicate like us but do we really know their minds and hearts? (or anyone's for that matter)? God knows. And I'll leave that up to Him. I don't believe we have to make up exceptions. Like you say, its not in scripture.

But we do know the Gospel is a simple message, one that a child's mind comprehends best. Matthew 11:25, Matthew 18:2-5, Matthew 19:13-14, Mark 9:36-37, Mark 10:13-16, Luke 10:21, Luke 18:15-17

[quote:5127a]Veritas wrote:
John 3:16 and John 14:6 are clear on what is needed.
You see,
There is nothing we can do to make God love us more, and
There is nothing we can do to make God love us less.

biblecatholic wrote:
i believe that also. the difference is that i believe a human can love God less and we can love Him more. we can even fall out of love with Him.....[/quote:5127a]

Which is why its not about us, but all about God and His faithfulness to us.

biblecatholic wrote:
i did say i know of him not know him .... ive only met him oncebut when i met Him we talked about it. . he lives a more christian life than most christians. does He make Jesus proud, yes on some areas of life. the areas where he is being like Christ in the way he treats people, yes that makes God proud. then God says why do not all those who say they have faith in Me not act like this. its like in our life God is proud of some stuff and other stuff He's like you say you know me but you didn't act like it.

I think we should be focusing on spreading the Good News and helping our misbehaving christain brethern out with what they need.

Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourageâ€â€with great patience and careful instruction. 2 Timothy 4:2

And what are you calling a christian life? I call a christian life a relationship with Christ. A buddhist may appear good, but who is he being good for?

Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7

Yes, we do know our brethern by how they act and their love. 1 John 3:10, 1 John 4:20 But how do we know love in the first place?

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. 1 John 3:16

We love because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19

How can someone who rejects Christ as the center of their life really know love and love authentically?

I think you should tell him of the Good News the next chance you have.... it's a life and death situation.

 

[Heidi]

Thanks aLonevoice - nice topic...

May I take this a step further - we we not just given Christ's righteousness....we were made righteous...

1 Cor 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

God bless 8-)

Amen.

 

[biblecatholic]

I think we should be focusing on spreading the Good News and helping our misbehaving christain brethern out with what they need

.
Amen.
[quote:9a496]Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourageâ€â€with great patience and careful instruction. 2 Timothy 4:2

Amen

And what are you calling a christian life? I call a christian life a relationship with Christ. A buddhist may appear good, but who is he being good for?

a christian life is doing Gods work on earth out of love.i am meaning a "christian type" of life that is better than many believers
with love that is commendable. now i understand that some believers say if you haven't met the Lord you cant have love, i disagree because the love that is in them only comes from one source and that is God. you can tell love by its fruits.

Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7

true, we can tell how the heart is by the fruits

Yes, we do know our brethern by how they act and their love. 1 John 3:10, 1 John 4:20 But how do we know love in the first place?

it comes from God. look at a small child looking into the eyes of his mother that love comes from Christ even if he doesnt know Him yet.the Desire to love is ininnate

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. 1 John 3:16

that is a true definition, but i only think that we will truly understand that love when we are in the Lords presence.....you can know aspects of love in different degrees, as everyone does.depending on our openness to love

We love because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19

true ,and He loves everyone he has ever created even the ones who went to hell

How can someone who rejects Christ as the center of their life really know love and love authentically?

[/quote:9a496] it is possible that they love more that some christians. i dont think most christians understand love. are you saying that christians love authentically? then why is there divorce when it's forbidden(in most cases).

look at Blessed"Mother" Teresa thats authentic love but even though she loved more that most she still would not truly understand it,yes she only loved that much because she loved God in an extraordinary way. she was empty enough to be more full with Christ than most

 

[Veritas]

[quote:1f305]Veritas wrote:
And what are you calling a christian life? I call a christian life a relationship with Christ. A buddhist may appear good, but who is he being good for?

biblecatholic wrote:
a christian life is doing Gods work on earth out of love.[/quote:1f305]

I think that's part of it, but not the most important, I'll explain more below.

biblecatholic wrote:
i am meaning a "christian type" of life that is better than many believers
with love that is commendable. now i understand that some believers say if you haven't met the Lord you cant have love, i disagree because the love that is in them only comes from one source and that is God. you can tell love by its fruits.

it comes from God. look at a small child looking into the eyes of his mother that love comes from Christ even if he doesnt know Him yet.the Desire to love is ininnate

I agree God is here with all of us in this world and affecting our lives. It is because of that we have love in this world among unbelievers despite their unbelief. But, I think God will still let them reject His Truth, and they will remain in death even if they happen to be affected by God and His love.

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. 1 John 3:16
biblecatholic wrote:
that is a true definition, but i only think that we will truly understand that love when we are in the Lords presence.....you can know aspects of love in different degrees, as everyone does.depending on our openness to love

Exactly. I don't think unbelievers truly understand. They don't want to. If and when they do want to understand is the point when they accept Christ's salvation and are brought from death to life in Him.

[quote:1f305]Veritas wrote:
How can someone who rejects Christ as the center of their life really know love and love authentically?

biblecatholic wrote:
it is possible that they love more that some christians. i dont think most christians understand love. are you saying that christians love authentically? then why is there divorce when it's forbidden(in most cases). [/quote:1f305]

I think the crucial love is the love between us and Christ. Its very good to love others, and Jesus tells us to do so, but its not first on the list.

God is.

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'

The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." Mark 12:29-31

As far as christians appearing no better than others sometimes--its because we are sinners too. Maybe that doesn't sound like such a great answer but I personally hope that is true. I'm no Mother Teresa and I could be lumped into the "misbehaving" christians you've mentioned. I've messed up really bad. My hope is in Him that He can save me despite all my shortcomings.

I believe He does. I'm made righteous in Him.