Salvation is all about Grace > Faith > Obedience

[John Zain]

The New American Standard Bible is widely recognized
as being the most literal English translation.

New American Standard Bible … John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

The translators could have just regurgitated the “not believe” of John 3:18,
but chose not to because IMO there was something in the Greek in John 3:36,
which pointed to disobedience!

New Living Translation … And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life.
Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under
God’s angry judgment.

English Standard Version … Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life;
whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Aramaic Bible … Whoever is trusting in The Son, has The Eternal Life,
and whoever disobeys The Son shall not see The Life, but the anger of God shall abide upon him.

American Stamdard Version … He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;
but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

English Revised Version … He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;
but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Weymouth NT … He who believes in the Son has the Life of the Ages;
he who disobeys the Son will not enter into Life, but God's anger remains upon him.

World English Bible … One who believes in the Son has eternal life,
but one who disobeys the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

International Standard Version … The one who believes in the Son has eternal life,
but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Orthodox Jewish Bible … The one with emunah in the Ben [HaElohim] has Chayyei Olam;
but the one disobeying the Ben [HaElohim] will not see Chayyim, but the Charon Af Hashem
remains on him.

Tyndale NT … He that believeth on the son, hath everlasting life.
And he that beloveth not the son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Many NT verses say those who love Jesus prove it by obedience to His commands!

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?

Hebrews 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest,
but to those who did not obey?

Hebrews 5:8-9 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Matt 19:17 But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God,
walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love,
just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing,
but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

1 John 2:3-5 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar …

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments.
This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman,
and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may
have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

 

[Elijah674]

The New American Standard Bible is widely recognized
as being the most literal English translation.

New American Standard Bible … John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.â€

The translators could have just regurgitated the “not believe†of John 3:18,
but chose not to because IMO there was something in the Greek in John 3:36,
which pointed to disobedience!

New Living Translation … And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life.
Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under
God’s angry judgment.

English Standard Version … Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life;
whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Aramaic Bible … Whoever is trusting in The Son, has The Eternal Life,
and whoever disobeys The Son shall not see The Life, but the anger of God shall abide upon him.

American Stamdard Version … He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;
but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

English Revised Version … He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;
but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Weymouth NT … He who believes in the Son has the Life of the Ages;
he who disobeys the Son will not enter into Life, but God's anger remains upon him.

World English Bible … One who believes in the Son has eternal life,
but one who disobeys the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

International Standard Version … The one who believes in the Son has eternal life,
but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Orthodox Jewish Bible … The one with emunah in the Ben [HaElohim] has Chayyei Olam;
but the one disobeying the Ben [HaElohim] will not see Chayyim, but the Charon Af Hashem
remains on him.

Tyndale NT … He that believeth on the son, hath everlasting life.
And he that beloveth not the son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Many NT verses say those who love Jesus prove it by obedience to His commands!

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?

Hebrews 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest,
but to those who did not obey?

Hebrews 5:8-9 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Matt 19:17 But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God,
walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love,
just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing,
but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

1 John 2:3-5 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
He who says, “I know Him,†and does not keep His commandments, is a liar …

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments.
This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman,
and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may
have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Sounds like this is firm?
And the motive must be included! Most all of the church were lost as seen in Isa. 5:3 (professed doctrine ones)

So I gather that the motive was missing! It takes both Christ + His Doctrines to be 'IN' Christ! (+ first place also huh?)

--Elijah

 

[JLB]

The New American Standard Bible is widely recognized
as being the most literal English translation.

New American Standard Bible … John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.â€

The translators could have just regurgitated the “not believe†of John 3:18,
but chose not to because IMO there was something in the Greek in John 3:36,
which pointed to disobedience!

New Living Translation … And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life.
Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under
God’s angry judgment.

English Standard Version … Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life;
whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Aramaic Bible … Whoever is trusting in The Son, has The Eternal Life,
and whoever disobeys The Son shall not see The Life, but the anger of God shall abide upon him.

American Stamdard Version … He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;
but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

English Revised Version … He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;
but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Weymouth NT … He who believes in the Son has the Life of the Ages;
he who disobeys the Son will not enter into Life, but God's anger remains upon him.

World English Bible … One who believes in the Son has eternal life,
but one who disobeys the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

International Standard Version … The one who believes in the Son has eternal life,
but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Orthodox Jewish Bible … The one with emunah in the Ben [HaElohim] has Chayyei Olam;
but the one disobeying the Ben [HaElohim] will not see Chayyim, but the Charon Af Hashem
remains on him.

Tyndale NT … He that believeth on the son, hath everlasting life.
And he that beloveth not the son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Many NT verses say those who love Jesus prove it by obedience to His commands!

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?

Hebrews 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest,
but to those who did not obey?

Hebrews 5:8-9 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Matt 19:17 But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God,
walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love,
just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing,
but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

1 John 2:3-5 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
He who says, “I know Him,†and does not keep His commandments, is a liar …

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments.
This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman,
and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may
have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Thanks for your write up John.

Very true.

We have another comparison -

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV


6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Hebrews 4:6 KJV


Obey and Believe = Same Same!


JLB

 

[farouk]

SOLA FIDE, SOLA GRATIA are Scriptural (Ephesians 2.8-9), as is what Paul calls 'the obedience of faith' (Romans 1.5), which, however, is not meritorious.

 

[Deborah13]

The New American Standard Bible is widely recognized
as being the most literal English translation.

New American Standard Bible … John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 3:36 NASB
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not [a]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Footnotes:

1. John 3:36 Or believe

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh3.pdf actual Greek to English with Strong's # and parsing

"the yet one-being-stubborn to-the Son the indignation (wrath) of God is remaining on him

I believe because of the Greek and because of the context of the scripture is about salvation, this scripture is speaking about "one-being-stubborn" about accepting Jesus. Because it says "Gods wrath is-remaining on him. That's what "abides" means in the Greek.

which pointed to disobedience!

I agree, it most definitely points to a disobedience, in that God says, for man to be reconciled to Him through Jesus. This is one of those scriptures.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


I could point out at least one more that in the Greek it is talking directly about obeying Him in the context of salvation but I won't.

So to clear something up. How does one obey? or overcome? Do we overcome by our will power? Or do we overcome by the power of the HS in us?

 

[Deborah13]

Obey and Believe = Same Same!

Yep, same thing. So we need to take into account whether it is a scripture that is speaking about an unsaved person disobedience in not heeding His call to salvation, or if it is speaking to a believer who is willfully disobeying, which is not believing what God said could happen to a believer if they persist in disobedience.

 

[farouk]

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

Of course, Paul reinforces what he says about salvation being 'by grace' and 'through faith' (Ephesians 2.8) by adding 'not of works' (Ephesians 2.9).

Blessings.

 

[Deborah13]

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

Of course, Paul reinforces what he says about salvation being 'by grace' and 'through faith' (Ephesians 2.8) by adding 'not of works' (Ephesians 2.9).

Blessings.

I agree, of coarse. We cannot earn salvation. But if we love Him, we will desire to please Him because He loves us.

 

[farouk]

@Deborah13 :

Of course, Paul reinforces what he says about salvation being 'by grace' and 'through faith' (Ephesians 2.8) by adding 'not of works' (Ephesians 2.9).

Blessings.

I agree, of coarse. We cannot earn salvation. But if we love Him, we will desire to please Him because He loves us.

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

Exactly

John says in his First Epistle: 'We love Him, because He first loved us'.

Blessings.

 

[John 8:32]

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

Of course, Paul reinforces what he says about salvation being 'by grace' and 'through faith' (Ephesians 2.8) by adding 'not of works' (Ephesians 2.9).

Blessings.

I agree, of coarse. We cannot earn salvation. But if we love Him, we will desire to please Him because He loves us.

As I have posted many, many times, 100 lifetimes or 100 years each of perfect obedience will NOT earn salvation, it is the free gift of God but (there is always a but, isn't there?) wilfull disobedience will cause one to lose their salvation...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The key word here is wilfull sin. Deliberately choosing the way of sin to satisfy the self and regarding the satiating and satisying of the flesh over doing the will God as what drives our lives, causes death.

 

[farouk]

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

Of course, Paul reinforces what he says about salvation being 'by grace' and 'through faith' (Ephesians 2.8) by adding 'not of works' (Ephesians 2.9).

Blessings.

I agree, of coarse. We cannot earn salvation. But if we love Him, we will desire to please Him because He loves us.

As I have posted many, many times, 100 lifetimes or 100 years each of perfect obedience will NOT earn salvation, it is the free gift of God but (there is always a but, isn't there?) wilfull disobedience will cause one to lose their salvation...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The key word here is wilfull sin. Deliberately choosing the way of sin to satisfy the self and regarding the satiating and satisying of the flesh over doing the will God as what drives our lives, causes death.

If a life of habitual sin continues, there is a question mark over whether there was ever a work of grace in the person's heart in the first place.

This is not the same as 'losing salvation', because the habitual sin may cause one to question whether salvation was ever there in the first place.

 

[Deborah13]

As I have posted many, many times, 100 lifetimes or 100 years each of perfect obedience will NOT earn salvation, it is the free gift of God but (there is always a but, isn't there?) wilfull disobedience will cause one to lose their salvation...

I look at it this way, if you knew what you did was sin before you did it, then it IS willful.

I don't see anything that says any different.

Is willful sin, premeditated sin? And unwillful sin just a lose of memory? Or is unwillful sin, not Knowing that what you did IS a sin?
The answer I believe about that, can be found in the OT, in the Torah.
Or as Paul said, before the Law came, he was without sin.

 

[WIP]

Has the law been written upon the hearts of all humanity? My understanding has been that it has and therefore, nobody is above reproach. I may be mistaken though and so that is why I ask.

 

[Sparkey]

In Luke 24:47 we are told to preach repentance. It is true that there are numerous Bible verses that speak of the promise of salvation, with no mention of repentance. These say to "believe" on Jesus Christ and you shall be saved (Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9).

We know God is holy and man is sinful; sin causes a separation between the two (Isaiah 59:1,2). The Scriptures speak of "repentance unto life" (Acts 11:18). "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not practice the truth" (1 John 1:6). Peter commanded his hearers to repent "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38).

Peter further said, "Repent . . . and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3:19). We cannot be "converted" unless we repent. God Himself "commands all men everywhere [leaving no exceptions] to repent" (Acts 17:30).

 

[Deborah13]

Has the law been written upon the hearts of all humanity? My understanding has been that it has and therefore, nobody is above reproach.

Romans 1 NASB
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [l]in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident [m]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

"Seek and you will find." "Knock and the door will be opened."

From your signature.

 

[John 8:32]

As I have posted many, many times, 100 lifetimes or 100 years each of perfect obedience will NOT earn salvation, it is the free gift of God but (there is always a but, isn't there?) wilfull disobedience will cause one to lose their salvation...

I look at it this way, if you knew what you did was sin before you did it, then it IS willful.

I don't see anything that says any different.

Is willful sin, premeditated sin? And unwillful sin just a lose of memory? Or is unwillful sin, not Knowing that what you did IS a sin?
The answer I believe about that, can be found in the OT, in the Torah.
Or as Paul said, before the Law came, he was without sin.

There is a succombing to temptation (which is still sin) and then there is a deliberate choosing to go the way of sin. David succombed to temptation, slept with Bathsheba, killed Uriah and then denied it for months until the child was born. At that point, Nathan brought correction from God and David repented. He was forgiven, but there still was an awful price to pay. The child died, one of his sons had his wife and serious family problems dogged him the rest of his physical life.

God did forgive him though and he learned a great lesson here. Because of the character he built, here is what David will be doing in the Kingdom...

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

David will be king over the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[Deborah13]

There is a succombing to temptation (which is still sin) and then there is a deliberate choosing to go the way of sin. David succombed to temptation, slept with Bathsheba, killed Uriah and then denied it for months until the child was born. At that point, Nathan brought correction from God and David repented. He was forgiven, but there still was an awful price to pay. The child died, one of his sons had his wife and serious family problems dogged him the rest of his physical life.

Hmm.... I never thought about it that way before. I can see your point in that he didn't deliberately go looking to commit that sin. I'll consider that. The intent of the heart before the temptation.