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Should I support my Pastor

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sinner
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Sinner

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I definitely want to stand by him, but its just too difficult. He continually fails to see the need for another job, so church can survive. But He brings faith faith faith. People are giving extra and beyond to take care of the building such as buying sprinklers.
Our church is sitting with around 30 people with a pastors salary of 64k. It's not growing. When I speak up, they assume the satan is spinning me up.....
I am in a verge to leave this place and go elsewhere, however, I am also concerned about members who are under my leadership....
 
Well Sinner, that seems like an awful lot of cash for a salary. Can I bother to ask what city you live in?

As far as what others give, if they are happy to give, then let them give.

2 Corinthians 9:6-7 But this I say, He who sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver.

If God has put it on your heart to purpose x amount each week, then do so. Keep in mind though, we are called to be good Stuarts with what God has given us. In other words, it's up to you to make sure what you give isn't being trampled on.

If I can ask you a question, it appears as though your questioning how monies are being allocated within the congregation. Are the Church books completely open? Though 64k sounds like a lot, what's included? In other words, is it straight income, or is it considered part of a package, such as health and medical or what might be counted as imputed income, such as housing etc?

So then, how much is coming in each week, and what is it being spent on? As a member of that church, you should have access to that information. Just like your household budget, when the bills ain't getting paid, something has to be cut or you'll end up loosing the whole kittin kabootal.

Just a few things that I was pondering...
 
Sinner said:
I definitely want to stand by him, but its just too difficult. He continually fails to see the need for another job, so church can survive. But He brings faith faith faith. People are giving extra and beyond to take care of the building such as buying sprinklers.
Our church is sitting with around 30 people with a pastors salary of 64k. It's not growing. When I speak up, they assume the satan is spinning me up.....
I am in a verge to leave this place and go elsewhere, however, I am also concerned about members who are under my leadership....

It's difficult to know this pastor's motivation without more information. The bible does teach to live by faith and in one respect I can see where he's coming from.

But on the other hand, sometimes it is an ego thing to think that one fails to the likes of the devil (which is probably what he sees as happening if he had to take another job).

Theoretically, the pastor could live off the same average income as ten families who tithed.
And if there were 20 other families that tithed, then the church could keep going (if it's like our church, the expenses amount 2:1 to the pastor's salary and benefits).

If you are in a congregation that he feels could do this, then I can see that maybe they just need to practice more faith. But equally important if he is going to receive this salary, then he has to be a good shepherd of your souls and feed you the word---- not just tithing sermons only.
 
sinner, i agree with stove boltz. 64k is a lot of money, especially for the size of the church. i am not against supporting a pastor, but that amount and the fact that the church is not growing definately raises a few concerns.
 
Thanks Chris,
That is exactly my concern. If we were growing, and the funds between the church ministries and pastor was properly balanced, I'd never have raised any questions.
I just heard another couple is leaving. These were the ones who'd work and do fundraisers for the church kids for their camping and activity funds, yet their hard labor funds get used in paying bills...( This had been done before but I am not sure if any recently)
I so much want to stay back, but I have this feeling to move on.....
 
Wowwww that's alot of money for that size congregration, 30 members, ummm that's about alittle over $2,100 each. My Pastor is over a 5 thousand members church and doesn't get paid that much. All church books are open information to all members of the church at any given time. But he is also provided a home, 1 vehicle, medical/dental/eyes ins. etc. etc. But what concerns me is the misuse of funds at these fund raisers for other ministries within the church. Never in my church would our pastor allow any misrepresentation on fund raising. If money is raised for the ministries in India....that's exactly where it goes with proof for the congregation/members where every penny went with reciepts. If the youth minister is raising money for whatever is needed with a car wash, then that's eactly where that money goes with proof for the members/congregation right down to the last dime. And once a month it's printed out and given to all of us where every single penny goes right down to the last cent.....all info is given to us....weekly tithes total, donation totals, all broke down to the last cent. Our church has in a matter of a few years has tripled if not more. New members, dedications, baptisms, just prospering like crazy....we're having to build it's growing that much. When I started it was only about 500 members in 1997, eleven years later it's over 5000. Pastor Kemp is pretty awesome man of God.

I can understand your concern. Pray/fast God will lead you in what should be done. But one must be careful and sure that God is moving you into this position, cause HE is very clear about touch not my anointed or suffer HIS wrath. Please be sure footed in your decision.

But I have one last question rolling around in my head.....is the church as a church prospering? or is the Pastor the only one that seems to be prospering as the church fails, and the congregation dwindles away. Eventually as the congregration finds refuge in Christ somewhere else, there'll be no tithes to pay his income. Hummmmmm that's a head scatcher.


Kudos HIM,
Carolpsalm91 <><
 
Sinner said:
These were the ones who'd work and do fundraisers for the church kids for their camping and activity funds, yet their hard labor funds get used in paying bills...( This had been done before but I am not sure if any recently)
I so much want to stay back, but I have this feeling to move on.....
I am not well versed in the law, but raising money for one purpose and using it for another may not be legal. If it is legal, it's certainly unethical. If I found out my donation for some kid to go camping was used to pay the pastor's salary I would be very upset.
 
Amen to that David.... That's funny my Pastor's name is David Lee Kemp. I wondering if others in this church are coming together on this cause it should be brought before the board.

Kudos HIM,
Carolpsalm91 <><
 
yeah it sounds like the whole church, the pastor and the board need to get together and discuss these matters. but you know i have seen it where the actual owners of the church were the problem rather than the pastor. you may want to find out what they are allowing and what they are not allowing. i know a church right now that is definately blessed by the lord. but the actual owners of the church only have him do 1 sermon a week and the church is always closed. they wont allow him to do anything that will actually bring growth in numbers to the church.
 
I am also in the Board, and I do plan to call this matter into attention of others.....
As Carol mentioned according to scriptures "Touch not my annointed" has give me an affirmation.
As David did reason with Saul. I have to be careful at handling this matter as not to accuse Pastor in anything or anyway, but be done in all humbleness and gentleness of spirit
 
sinner, sounds like you have some praying to do. but i want to make something clear. just because someone has a paper that states he is a pastor and is put into a pastor position because he went to a serminary school does not make them gods chosen or anointed. in todays world christianity has become a business made by man. rather than a holy inspiration made by god.
 
Very wise words, Chris. I think we are way too quick to assume a title makes it true. A true shepherd has the characteristics of Jesus, and that being he will lay down his own life for the good of the sheep.
 
Chris/Sinner/Destiny I believe combined together makes good godly advice, and good head sense.

Kudos HIM,
Carolpsalm91 <><
 
Sinner,

I pray that God give you discernment in this matter, and that you follow Him where ever He leads. I think you are being sensitive to understand that this man has given himself to service in God's work, and God will bless you for your desire to respect that position. Even a Godly man can be caught up in doing the wrong thing at times, however, and prayer for God to open his eyes is sometimes needed, and the only option, if he is unwilling to hear counsel. I question you Pastor's decision to not heed the warning signs, or take godly counsel in the matter.

My husband sometimes will lead us straight into a mine field of problems because he does not hear the counsel of his wife. He is the lead, and usually doesn't need to hear too much from me, but I have been given to him as a helpmeet and at times when I have had a difference of opinion, and my husband is not really hearing it (or at least pausing because of it), we have ended up with more trouble. That's why I question your pastor's ignoring of counsel. The thing is, most of the time when Michael does listen to me very openly, even if he still does the opposite of what I think, he ends up being right in line with God's leading of our family. It seems that he is willing to hear God, though, at those times. He is just generally more open to hearing what it is God is leading him to do, I think. Again, I would question your pastors unwillingness to hear godly men around him in the matter. Just some thoughts. The Lord bless you, and you have my prayers this morning.
 
Oh wow, I never thought it that way......thank you so much guys/girls. I have been praying for GOD to show me a sign or speak to me through scriptures.
HE will reveal to me soon, whats to be done. My heart does not allow me to just leave, so there must be something.
I will wait upon the Lord to renew my strength. And I thank you guys for good words of encouragement!!
 
Blessings to you sinner, God will show you the way.....you pretty much have all that you must lean upon with scriptured advice.....Now wait on HIM with prayer and fasting. We'll be covering you and this situation with prayer.
But I must say, I too like Lovely have been wondering why your pastor has ignored the counsel and prayer partners that surrounds him, that is what they're there for. Another is why hasn't your pastor posted the breakdown of finances/tithes & offerings/ministry donations/donations in general for other things the church requires/utilities/rent, plus payroll....this information is to be available to the church as the body of Christ. There's "nothing" to be hidden from the church/within the church when it comes to finances made available by the congregation. Even our individual tithe offerings with our names is posted with all that financial information in our church.....I mean right down to the last penny......all $$$$ accounted for and posted for church view. There should be a treasurer who handles this information with an financial overseer, plus another overseer over both fo them. A true man of God is an open book before his fold. All I can say is that I'm truly bless to be under the leadership of Pastor David Kemp....he's true as the Word as God discribes he should be. Though all should be careful not to put our pastors on a pedestal, they are human, subject to the same human weaknesses as us. You know when our pastor feels that he has step out of character in Christ, that he will confess it before the church and ask for forgiveness. For example the other day, he ask for forgiveness cause he got road rage because someone flipped him the bird. He was following the guy all mad and Sonja (his wife) was calling him down on it, saying David this is not of God etc. etc. etc. But he confessed it before us as a man of God. He was so humble, and he was disappointed in himself to the point of tears that he didn't represent himself as God called him forth to be. He didn't have to say one word to us....who would have known outside of God and them? But he made himself accountable to God before the church asking for forgiveness from both.
Sinner my heart hurts for you, this must be so pressing upon your spirit, just don't let it become a millstone around your neck.....God will lead you by the guidence of the Holy Spirit through this sinner. Just know Hon, we got you covered here in prayer. This is an awesome group of brethern here sinner.
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Lord Jesus I come before YOU asking for the forgiveness of my sins, so that Lord when I come before in with my heart felt request YOU will honor it as I lift up holy hands before YOU by the grace of salvation. Lord Jesus I ask in the Holy name of Jesus that you fully equip sinner in YOUR wisdom, and knowledge, and that YOU use his lips for thy service Lord. I ask in YOUR name to let YOUR strength and peace flow from the Throne upon the top of sinners head and let it pour/flow over him right down to the bottoms of his feet....let him be saturated in it. Let every single step he takes already be called forth and anointed by YOU as YOU are a lamp at his feet lighting the way to bring you glory and victory in this pressing matter. And as he goes forth in what YOU have ask him to do, let nothing block his way. I plead a hedge of protection around sinner and let it be in representation of our Father with HIS Holy fire. Let everything that can't pass through this fire of God, I bind in the name of Jesus of even coming forth. I plead second hedge in representation of Jesus and let this hedge surround sinner for protection and upon each leaf of this hedge, let there be a drop of our Savior precious blood, for I know nothing can come against the power of the Blood. I plead a third hedge around sinner in representation of the Holy Spirit to speak and rise up in him the warrior God has called him forth to be. Let YOUR most fierce warrior angels, let them be linked arm to arm, wing tip to wing tip, sword tip to sword tip, and firey eyes upon each principality that tries to rise up and come against sinner to keep him from doing what YOU have called forth for him to do....let them be cast back into the pits from where they came from, and their mission deveated by the grace of God, and your obedient servant sinner. Surround him and embrace HIM Lord in his time of need, for Lord we know that when we are weak YOU are strong. Let sinner know Lord as he dresses in the armor of God that the reason why there's no armor for his back that there is no need with Christ behind us. I ask all this in the mighty name of JESUS, for Lord YOU know my heart, YOU know my faith and my full trust in YOU. Amen and Amen
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Kudos HIM,
Carolpsalm91 <><
 
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