Some Survey Qns.

[ivdavid]

I've been here around this forum about a year ago and on returning, I've just noticed that the same topics with more or less the same arguments are floating around.

I feel there are some foundational first premises that we take for granted in the other person's perspective which need not necessarily be so and is not.

To this end, here are a few basic, almost rhetorical questions. Simple,honest answers should suffice. Based on the responses received , the questions will be modified/clarified. The questions are very specific in nature and where no information is provided, no assumptions are warranted. Obviously, you can raise your objections against the validity of a question if you feel that it has been framed wrongly or lacks necessary information/assumptions. Note, though these questions are related to God, they are not meant to depict Him completely in all scenarios - what the general opinion is on very specific issues, is the focus here.

If you find the time, please shoot a quick response. Here are the Qns....

Scenario 1:
Three prisoners, who are to be put to death, are brought before a king for a mercy petition the day before they are to be hanged. The first man has not committed the crime he has been charged with but has been wrongly accused and found guilty. The second man has committed the crime he has been found guilty of but sinks to his knees before the king and weeps for mercy. The third man has committed the crime he has been found guilty of but does not care much for offending the king and simply turns away, brazenly stubborn, and not mindful of the precarious situation he's in. The king looks at each of them intently and forgives each of them.

Question 1a) : Which of these men 'least' merited/deserved the king's mercy?
Question 1b) : Which of these men should be 'most' indebted to the king?


Scenario 2:
Case 1: A good man has an enemy (enemy is defined as one who hates you, not in any way implying the other way round) . The enemy is drowning in a river. The good man sees him from an overhead bridge and immediately throws him a rope and asks him to take hold and climb up. The enemy, on seeing this man, refuses his help and struggles to make it ashore on his own. He fails and drowns.
Case 2: Same case as above - the enemy is drowning, the good man rushes out, throws a rope and asks him to take hold and climb up. The enemy refuses. Now the good man pleads with the enemy to simply take hold of the rope and that he would pull him up all the way without the enemy having to climb up on his own - he simply has to take hold of the rope and the good man would pull him up. The enemy refuses, struggles in vain on his own and drowns.
Case 3: Same case as above - the enemy is drowning, the good man asks him to simply take hold of the rope while he will pull him out, the enemy refuses and struggles on his own. The good man then throws aside the rope and dives into the water after his enemy, overpowers the enemy's initial resistance to being saved and finally drags him ashore, safe and alive.

Question 2: In which of these cases is the good man's love for this enemy 'most' manifested ?


Scenario 3 :
Two men owe money to a sovereign king and are under bond to pay back completely or be put in jail. On the day of payment both are unable to pay. The king looks at the first man and asks, "where are my 500 coins?". "I don't have them, Sir", is the reply. The king orders him to be put in jail. As he's leaving, the king looks at the second man and asks, "where are my 500 coins?". "I don't have them, Sir", is his reply too. The king pardons him and releases him.

Question 3 : Is the king unjust in showing mercy to the one and not to the other?


Scenario 4 :
There are two rebellious students in a class. They are taught by a very good teacher who constantly appeals to them to study. All through the year, she pulls them up for not paying attention in class, exhorts them, reprimands them and yet they show no interest or inclination to study. The teacher then takes the extra effort to prepare for them special notes to aid them in their studies and still both of them do not study. Two weeks before the exam, the boys themselves know they are not going to clear the exam. At this point, the teacher summons one of the boys and sits with him the entire time, preparing him for the exam. This boy passes in his exam while the other fails. When asked how he passed the exam, this boy replied,"The teacher did it all for me". When the other boy was asked how he failed, he replied,"The teacher did 'not' do it all for me".

Question 4: Does the second boy have any justification in blaming the teacher for his failure?


Scenario 5 :
A goldsmith wishes to gift his nephew with a precious piece of gold. He takes it straight from the furnace with his tongs, gives his nephew a pair of gloves to wear without which he cannot receive the searing hot gold, and asks him to put them on before receiving this refined gold. The nephew puts the gloves on and receives the gift, then goes outside and tells his friends that he received the piece of gold 'because' he put the gloves on.

Question 5 : Is the boy justified in saying so?

 

[Nathan]

Are there right and wrong answers?

Or are you just wanting to know what people believe?

 

[ivdavid]

@Nathan,

My primary focus is in knowing and understanding what it is that people generally believe. I'd like to know the different theological frameworks within which people operate in order to be sensitive to where they come from instead of imposing my worldview on them.

That said, I suppose every question pertaining with the knowledge of God has a right answer. So yes, these qns do have right answers. My wish is that we all arrive at them through discussion and without division.

I shall put up my answers after I see a general direction in the responses.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Question 1a) : Which of these men 'least' merited/deserved the king's mercy?
- This "merit level," to me cannot be measured as it pertains to mercy because as I understand mercy, merit has very little if anything to do with it. If merit were involved, it would not be mercy.
Question 1b) : Which of these men should be 'most' indebted to the king?
- To me, all 3 parties are equally indebted to the king for his pardon because NONE of them would have been granted a pardon without the king saying so. So whether guilty or innocent, remorseful or stubborn, all were dependent upon the king for a pardon equally.


Question 2: In which of these cases is the good man's love for this enemy 'most' manifested ?

- The love is most evident where the good man jumps in to save his enemy potentially putting his own safety at risk in the process.


Question 3 : Is the king unjust in showing mercy to the one and not to the other?

- Mercy and justice are usually mutually exclusive, but in this scenario, the mercy shown to debtor 2 does make the situation with debtor 1 seem unfair. The lender has the borrower(s) as his slaves in that their not paying him what he is owed grants him the ability to determine the status of their future freedom. He is justified in sentencing them or pardoning them, as the "lienholder," the ability to make whatever decision he chooses is within his rights and neither decision should be considered right or wrong for that matter, because it is right for him to make whatever decision he decides upon.

Question 4: Does the second boy have any justification in blaming the teacher for his failure?

- Only if the teacher is the one ultimately responsible for who passes and who fails. If that responsibility falls on the teacher than the boy has a case, but if the students themselves have an individual responsibility, than no one can be blamed but the boy himself.

Question 5 : Is the boy justified in saying so?

- The boy would appear to be CORRECT in his statement though NOT being fully honest with those to whom he speaks. The gold was offered as an unmerited gift, his putting on the gloves simply met the condition put in place by the gift-giver for the receipt of the unmerited gift (aka grace). Had the boy refused to put the gloves on, he very well may have in essense rejected the gift, but let's not think that somehow his putting the gloves on equaled a "work" that made him worthy or meritorious.

 

[reba]

Scenario 1: there is non rightious before our King

Question 2 3 no greater love then to lay down ones life


Question 3 The king is soverign He is the potter we the clay

Question 4: nope

Question 5: leaning to yes