Soul

[n2thelight]

Was your soul created at conception,or before?

 

[Elijah674]

Was your soul created at conception,or before?

What does the Word of God teach? We see at the start of man that God says one Truth & satan lies! Or was it God that lied? You tell us who you believe? satan has most at least teaching his way, huh? They do not want to come right out and blaspheme it appears? but there is only two ways seen, Gods or satans. So blaspheme it is!

And yes, you ask about when you became a 'living soul'? At 'conception' is as the Word of God has it is my vote! K.J. Psalms 139:15-16, verse 16 has it..
'Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in [thy book all my members were written], which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.'

--Elijah

 

[Webb]

Elijah I may not agree with you on other matters but on this one I do

 

[n2thelight]

What does the Word of God teach? We see at the start of man that God says one Truth & satan lies! Or was it God that lied? You tell us who you believe? satan has most at least teaching his way, huh? They do not want to come right out and blaspheme it appears? but there is only two ways seen, Gods or satans. So blaspheme it is!

And yes, you ask about when you became a 'living soul'? At 'conception' is as the Word of God has it is my vote! K.J. Psalms 139:15-16, verse 16 has it..
'Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in [thy book all my members were written], which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.'

--Elijah

I believe the Word of God clearly teach that the soul was created before birth...

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Now,I know you will explain this away by saying God knows everything,however that's not the case,He knew him because he was there......

Job 38


1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Now the above is when God had just created the earth,do you not notice the sons of God shouted for joy,are you a son of God?Now before you say these were angels,which would be correct also,who then are the morning stars?

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

And God hated Esau........Why?

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Was your soul created at conception,or before?

There is no "soul" that was created separate from you. YOU ARE A SOUL, you do not posses one.

This view presupposes a dualism between body and soul which is not found in the account of creation and nowhere to be found in the entire Bible!

Man did not receive a soul from God; he was made a living soul. The animals also were made "living souls" (Gen 1:20, 21, 24, 30; 2:19), yet, they were not created in the image of God of course.

A host of heresies that are plaguing the Christian world today derive from dualism. For example, dualism has given rise to the popular deception of conscious life after death that is spreading today like wildfire, a deception that is promoted effectively by the channeling craze of the New Age movement and research into near-death experiences. The latter in turn has fostered such beliefs as the intercession of the saints, the praying for the dead, indulgences, Purgatory, the reattachment of the soul to the body at the resurrection, the eternal torment in Hell, an ethereal view of Paradise where glorified souls will spend eternity in everlasting contemplation and meditation.

For example, In Psalms 7:1-2 we read, "Deliver me: lest he tear my soul [nephesh] like a lion, rending it in pieces." Would anyone contend that the soul here mentioned is something "immaterial" and "immortal" that leaves the body at death? If so, how can it be torn by a lion? It is obvious that David is referring to his body, and not to a disembodied soul!

Also David says in Psa 33:18-19, "Behold the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him. . . to deliver their soul from death." How can the soul be deliverred from death if it is not subject to death and continues its existence in some other locality? Obviously David is referring by the word "soul" to himself in his totality of being.

And when Adam was created, God formed his body from the dust of the ground, breathed the breath of life or spirit into his nostrils, and he became a living soul[Nephesh] or as NIV says; living being [Gen 2:7]. And according to the Bible in Ecclesiastes 12:7, exactly the opposite occurs at death: "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was "so the body goes to the earth" and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Nowhere in Gods Word does it say a "SOUL" entered man at creation or birth and leaves the body at death! NOWHERE!2 That's simply not Biblical and was invented by Satan to deceive many! It stems from his first lie, [Gen 3:4], which in turn gave birth to the deceptive "immortal soul" doctrine.

 

[n2thelight]

There is no "soul" that was created separate from you. YOU ARE A SOUL, you do not posses one.

I totally agree,however my point was that, the soul was with the Father before being put into flesh....

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

I totally agree,however my point was that, the soul was with the Father before being put into flesh....

Ah ok, good question. Well, seeing we are a soul, the soul is created the same time as the body, because the body and we are souls.

A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath(spirit). A soul cannot exist unless body and breath(spirit) are combined. God's Word teaches that we are souls. soul = man in his totality. So I guess you can say the soul is created at the exact moment God breathes the spirit into the body. But a question arises, does God put the spirit into the body inside the womb at some time or after the baby takes its first breath?

But the Bible says without the spirit the body is dead. The only thing that is "put into a body" is the spirit, and at death, the spirit returns to God.

Hope that answers you.

 

[n2thelight]

Ah ok, good question. Well, seeing we are a soul, the soul is created the same time as the body, because the body and we are souls.

A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath(spirit). A soul cannot exist unless body and breath(spirit) are combined. God's Word teaches that we are souls. soul = man in his totality.

Bible says without the spirit the body is dead.

The only thing that is "put into a body" is the spirit, and at death, the spirit returns to God.

Hope that answers you.

Here's how I see it...The spirit and the soul are always together,which can exsit outside of the flesh and did before being put into the flesh....It's as you say,we are(a soul)

As Paul said, we have two bodies,a flesh and a spiritual.


I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you.

Your spirit never leaves your soul, even at the death of your flesh body.

The point of my thread is to show that we did exsit prior to being put into flesh.....

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

...The point of my thread is to show that we did exsit prior to being put into flesh.....

Existed in what way? As a substance without conciseness and awareness?

What is the spirit made off? And does the spirit have a personality and awareness before it's breathed into the body?

 

[n2thelight]

Existed in what way? As a substance without conciseness and awareness?

What is the spirit made off? And does the spirit have a personality and awareness before it's breathed into the body?

Job 38


1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Now the above is when God had just created the earth,do you not notice the sons of God shouted for joy,are you a son of God?Now before you say these were angels,which would be correct also,who then are the morning stars?

Now if we shouted for joy I would guess it's safe to say we were very much concious

In the same way Christ became flesh,so did we....

 

[Elijah674]

I believe the Word of God clearly teach that the soul was created before birth...

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Now,I know you will explain this away by saying God knows everything,however that's not the case,He knew him because he was there......

Job 38


1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Now the above is when God had just created the earth,do you not notice the sons of God shouted for joy,are you a son of God?Now before you say these were angels,which would be correct also,who then are the morning stars?

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

And God hated Esau........Why?

Hi, we are as God DOCUMENTED!;) 'MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL' That was creation of mankind. From then on as I see the question, is when do we after Adam become ALIVE?
At 'conception' was my answer from Psalms 139:15-16.


The two seperate thought questions are truely the same in context but not in questions. (as I see it)


OK: About your True posted Scripture. There is NO Doubt that God knew in ETERNITY what each of His creation's final fate would be, that you think 'IS (was) A LIVING SOUL seperate soul'. That thinking is flawed as 'i' see it. And again that would make God flat out the LIAR & not satan in Gen. 3. Inspiration say that God breathed into his nostriles the 'breath of life' & man 'BECAME A LIVING SOUL'. Alive!


OK: Here is todays problem! First off we have GOT TO BELIEVE GOD! He does not play 1/2 TRUTH Stuff. (see Eze. 18:4 + Eze. 18:20) God cannot lie!

AND Second: In Rom. 4:17 last part of the verse God tell's us with INSPIRATION a Truth of what He (They as the Godhead) has, & can ONLY ETERNALY KNOW. And pay attention to apply it to [ALL OF THEIR CREATION!] From their first of created angels which fell with 1/3 of all the others, to the vast other worlds (Heb. 1:2 +) which never sinned, & these Bible verses which you give came on the scene as also pre/known before they actually were created [TO BECOME LIVING SOULS!]


OK: Rom. 4:17 last part of Gods WORD there is the understanding to zero in on...

'As it is written, I [HAVE MADE THEE A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS], [BEFORE HIM WHOM HE BELIEVED, ... [[[[AND CALLETH THOSE THINGS ** WHICH BE NOT AS THOUGH THEY WERE***]]]]'


Here is the problem with the ones who do not yet grasp the 'Spiritual things which must be Spiritual DECREENED' (as 'i' see it) Again GOD HAS GOT TO BE BELIEVED in Gen. 3 ---->>>>>> ON!!

Until that happens one will never see correctly! Man BECAME A LIVING SOUL.


And the above Rom. 4:17 verse is confusing not only for there being NO SUCH THING AS A IMMORTAL SOUL (other than the Godhead 1 Tim. 1:17 + 1 Tim. 6:16) but if the verse was understood & 'really' believed, the false.. again satanic OSAS doctrine would be understood as such & tossed out as well!


AND?? One more! This is exactly as is done in Rom. 4:17 with Christ/God in Prov. 8:22-24. This is prophesed Eternal Truth in Their for/knowledge, calling this [[[ETERNAL PLAN]]] an FACT!

See even verses 30-31 where the future PLAN would find Man/Christ/God playing in the streets on Earth.:yes 'Rejoicing in the habitable part of the EARTH; and [My Delights] were [with the sons of men].'


And your question asked about Jacob & Esau? The reason why is that we all are forknown by God & the Rom. 4:17 verse tell's us this Truth. Yet, what He (THEY) know, Their creation has never known of ones future other than by taking Their Word.. in & by Loving Obedient Working [FAITH]. Otherwise it would not be faith, huh!;)


--Elijah

 

[patience7]

Was your soul created at conception,or before?

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

He formed man's body from the dust of the ground and when he breathed into man the breath of life is when man became a living soul.

Strong's definition of soul - nephesh

1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
b) living being
c) living being (with life in the blood)
d) the man himself, self, person or individual
e) seat of the appetites
f) seat of emotions and passions
g) activity of mind
1) dubious
h) activity of the will
1) dubious
i) activity of the character
1) dubious

When man breathes his last breath, his soul life ends and his body returns to dust from where it came.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Job 38


1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Now the above is when God had just created the earth,do you not notice the sons of God shouted for joy,are you a son of God?Now before you say these were angels,which would be correct also,who then are the morning stars?

Now if we shouted for joy I would guess it's safe to say we were very much concious

In the same way Christ became flesh,so did we....

This is a topic that has a number of interpretations, depending whom you ask.

My interpretation is that "star" can refer to "angel" (Numbers 24:7; Revelation 1:20, 9:1, 12:4; and other places). Generally speaking, I see a "morning star" as being a good, enlightened angel (this is my own definition). However, Jesus was also known a the "morning star", and Satan too right? In fact, Satan and Jesus may or may not have been part of the "morning stars" of Job 38:7. But I see "morning stars" as being merely good, enlightened angels.

But may I say, those "morning stars" I do not believe are US before we were conceived in our mother womb.

 

[n2thelight]

This is a topic that has a number of interpretations, depending whom you ask.

My interpretation is that "star" can refer to "angel" (Numbers 24:7; Revelation 1:20, 9:1, 12:4; and other places). Generally speaking, I see a "morning star" as being a good, enlightened angel (this is my own definition). However, Jesus was also known a the "morning star", and Satan too right? In fact, Satan and Jesus may or may not have been part of the "morning stars" of Job 38:7. But I see "morning stars" as being merely good, enlightened angels.

But may I say, those "morning stars" I do not believe are US before we were conceived in our mother womb.

Okay,so what about the sons of God?This is how I feel God knew Jeremiah

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

And why He hated Esau.....Also had satan never rebelled,we would not had been made flesh,or should I say put into flesh bodies....This is also when He chose His elect.....

Also,why would the angels shout for joy when the earth was made,they were not going to live on it?

 

[n2thelight]

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

He formed man's body from the dust of the ground and when he breathed into man the breath of life is when man became a living soul.

Strong's definition of soul - nephesh

1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
b) living being
c) living being (with life in the blood)
d) the man himself, self, person or individual
e) seat of the appetites
f) seat of emotions and passions
g) activity of mind
1) dubious
h) activity of the will
1) dubious
i) activity of the character
1) dubious

When man breathes his last breath, his soul life ends and his body returns to dust from where it came.

When man breaths his last breath,the soul returns to heaven from where it came


Ecclesiastes
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was "so the body goes to the earth" and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

 

[n2thelight]

OK: About your True posted Scripture. There is NO Doubt that God knew in ETERNITY what each of His creation's final fate would be, that you think 'IS (was) A LIVING SOUL seperate soul'. That thinking is flawed as 'i' see it. And again that would make God flat out the LIAR & not satan in Gen. 3. Inspiration say that God breathed into his nostriles the 'breath of life' & man 'BECAME A LIVING SOUL'. Alive!

This would be another topic,however I don't feel that God know's
our final fate else why not just end it now,there would be no reason for us to go through this life....

So again I ask,how did God know Jeremiah before he was in his mother's womb?

And on a side note,God created the male and the female at the same time,and that's before He made Adam......