Sun Into Darkness, Moon Into Blood

[Dave...]

​

Joel's prophecy will not be completely fulfilled until the millennial kingdom and the final judgment. But Peter, by using it, shows that Pentecost was a pre-fulfillment, a taste of what will happen in the millennial kingdom when the Spirit is poured out on all flesh. In Joel 2:28 it says "And it shall come to pass afterward". The answer to the question "after what?" needs to be addressed.

This is from my study Bible (Macarthur). I skipped some of it.

Acts Chapter 2 we read from below , which referred to Joel chapter 2 .

2:17 last days. This phrase refers to the present era of redemptive history from the first coming of Christ (Hebrews 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20, 1 john 2:18) to His return.

2:17-18 Dreams, Prophecy, Wonders, signs (I'll skip this part unless you really want to know)

2:19 Blood...Fire...Vapor of Smoke. These phenomena are all connected with events surrounding Christ's second coming and signal the establishment of the earthly kingdom: Blood (Revelation 6:8, Revelation 8:7-8, Revelation 9:15, Revelation 14:20, Revelation 16:3); Fire (Revelation 8:5, Revelation 8:7-8, Revelation 8:10); and Smoke Revelation 9:2-3, Revelation 9:17-18, Revelation 18:9, Revelation 18:18)

2:20 Sun...Darkness...Moon into blood. CF. Matthew 24:29-30;...Day of the Lord...The day of the Lord will come with the return of Jesus Christ (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:2, Revelation 19:11-15)

The context of Joel 2 is the great millennial Kingdom Joel's prophecy is related to the Second Coming. Notice that everything promised in the prophecy did not happen on the day of Pentecost. What happened in Acts 2:1-13 was a preview of final Kingdom events. The people had a taste of what will happen when Jesus returns. Peter wasn't claiming that all the elements of Joel's prophecy were fulfilled that day, but he was confirming it was a glimpse of final glory. In fact, everything Jesus did in His ministry--all His signs, wonders, and miracles (and those performed by the apostles)--was a taste of His Second Coming. That's why the writer of Hebrews said the law is "a shadow of good things to come" (Heb. 10:1).

Thoughts?

 

[PetraSophie]

Hi Dave. New here (well, I have been on here before, a few years ago so I am back now actually but yes, thoughts... 1. would like to read what you have written about the signs, wonders, dreams part. 2. At the moment, I feel like I am in the wrong train? How does one know this is the case? 3. Feel that our church is a weak, bleak performance of what God wants us to be (see John 14 - we do the same things Jesus has done in His time - and even more we should do - heal the sick, cast out demons, encourage others to follow Him) - and like, the church in Acts, for instance. The troubles of the world overpower us many times, and on Sunday we hear about how sinful of creatures we are, and we need the salvation daily. And to a part, and a huge part, this is the truth. Yet on the other hand, I miss His powerful presence among us (our local church)? If we do the will of the Father, His Kingdom can come... Is He not waiting to come back - yet unless we can show the world who our loving and righteous Father is? Is He waiting for us, to wake up? I myself feel so dull sometimes, things happened this year that made me stop conquering, feeling overwhelmed and defeated more than ever before, not wanting to get up and fight once more until He comes?

 

[hawkman]

2:17-18 Dreams, Prophecy, Wonders, signs (I'll skip this part unless you really want to know)

Dreams , signs , sounds , visions . even smells . Welcome to my world . It is time .

 

[Dave...]

Hi Petra

Welcome back to the forum. I was here about twenty years ago myself, then I kind of fell off of the social grid for a while. I actually took that part of the opening post from my Macarthur study Bible many years back. I just cut and pasted it from another forum that I also used to use. I'll see if I can find that Bible to fill in the blanks. I use large print now, so no need for small print anymore. That Bible could be buried anywhere, if I didn't already give it away.

Petra. I went to a similar church a while back. I always felt the same way. I don't believe that the sign gift are for today, but we'll save that for another discussion. We do need the filling daily, though. Letting the Holy Spirit guide our everyday thoughts and decisions. The best way to do that is obedience, and saturating our mind in the word of God.

God will come back in His timing. It's not for us to usher anything in, so, I wouldn't put that burden on yourself. We have enough on our plate already, right?

Feeling defeated and overwhelmed can be a result of not feeding your spirit with the Word of God. I get that way when I starve myself spiritually from the word of God. Even replacing that with all the miracles, signs, etc, will drain you spiritually. But, feeling that way can can also be normal. God does some of his best work in us just after He strips us down. It's a good place to be. It's a great time to follow hard after Jesus, through His word.

I've posted this quote a few times, because I need to be reminded all the time. Perhaps it will put you back on track to hear it also.

Spurgeon...

Quote: It is ever the Holy Spirit's work to turn our eyes away from self to Jesus; but Satan's work is just the opposite of this, for he is constantly trying to make us regard ourselves instead of Christ. He insinuates, "Your sins are too great for pardon; you have no faith; you do not repent enough; you will never be able to continue to the end; you have not the joy of his children; you have such a wavering hold of Jesus." All these are thoughts about self, and we shall never find comfort or assurance by looking within. But the Holy Spirit turns our eyes entirely away from self: he tells us we are nothing, but that "Christ is All in All." Remember, therefore, it is not your hold of Christ that saves you--it is Christ; it is not your joy in Christ that saves you--it is Christ; it is not even faith in Christ, thought that be the instrument--it is Christ's blood and merits; therefore, look not so much to your hand with which you art grasping Christ, as to Christ; look not to your hope, but to Jesus, the source of your hope; look not to your faith, but to Jesus, the author and finisher of your faith. We shall never find happiness by looking at our prayers, our doings, or our feelings; it is what Jesus is, not what we are, that gives rest to the soul. If we would at once overcome Satan and have peace with God, it must be by "looking unto Jesus." Keep your eye simply on him; let his death, his sufferings, his merits, his glories, his intercession, be fresh upon your mind; when you wake in the morning look to him; when you lie down at night look to him. Do not let your hopes and fears come between you and Jesus; follow hard after him, and he will never fail you."

Dave

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Amos 5:18-19 "Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! Why would you have the day of the Lord?
It is darkness, and not light, as if a man fled from a lion, and a bear met him, or went into the house and leaned his hand against the wall, and a serpent bit him."

 

[hawkman]

Feel that our church is a weak, bleak performance of what God wants us to be (see John 14 - we do the same things Jesus has done in His time - and even more we should do - heal the sick, cast out demons, encourage others to follow Him) - and like, the church in Acts, for instance.

There are churches out there that are very much alive just like in Acts ! If your church is not doing these things you need to find out why .
The people of the world now would rather pray to their screens .

 

[RandyK]

​

Joel's prophecy will not be completely fulfilled until the millennial kingdom and the final judgment. But Peter, by using it, shows that Pentecost was a pre-fulfillment, a taste of what will happen in the millennial kingdom when the Spirit is poured out on all flesh. In Joel 2:28 it says "And it shall come to pass afterward". The answer to the question "after what?" needs to be addressed.

This is from my study Bible (Macarthur). I skipped some of it.

Acts Chapter 2 we read from below , which referred to Joel chapter 2 .

2:17 last days. This phrase refers to the present era of redemptive history from the first coming of Christ (Hebrews 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20, 1 john 2:18) to His return.

2:17-18 Dreams, Prophecy, Wonders, signs (I'll skip this part unless you really want to know)

2:19 Blood...Fire...Vapor of Smoke. These phenomena are all connected with events surrounding Christ's second coming and signal the establishment of the earthly kingdom: Blood (Revelation 6:8, Revelation 8:7-8, Revelation 9:15, Revelation 14:20, Revelation 16:3); Fire (Revelation 8:5, Revelation 8:7-8, Revelation 8:10); and Smoke Revelation 9:2-3, Revelation 9:17-18, Revelation 18:9, Revelation 18:18)

2:20 Sun...Darkness...Moon into blood. CF. Matthew 24:29-30;...Day of the Lord...The day of the Lord will come with the return of Jesus Christ (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:2, Revelation 19:11-15)

The context of Joel 2 is the great millennial Kingdom Joel's prophecy is related to the Second Coming. Notice that everything promised in the prophecy did not happen on the day of Pentecost. What happened in Acts 2:1-13 was a preview of final Kingdom events. The people had a taste of what will happen when Jesus returns. Peter wasn't claiming that all the elements of Joel's prophecy were fulfilled that day, but he was confirming it was a glimpse of final glory. In fact, everything Jesus did in His ministry--all His signs, wonders, and miracles (and those performed by the apostles)--was a taste of His Second Coming. That's why the writer of Hebrews said the law is "a shadow of good things to come" (Heb. 10:1).

Thoughts?

I think that the Prophets viewed the coming of Messiah as a fulfillment of the Law and as a fullfillment of Israel's hope. As such there was not a focus primarily on the time between Jesus' 1st Coming and his 2nd Coming. When Jesus arrived, hope had arrived, no matter how long it would take for the process to unfold (2000 years approx. so far).

When Peter quotes Joel, I think he has in view the ultimate hope of Israel and the pertinent elements in bringing this about, namely the judgments that befall Israel, as well as the dreams and visions that precede Israel's ultimate restoration.

Peter did not fully appreciate, at that point, how important it would be for the work of Jesus, and the outpouring of the Spirit, with respect to the inclusion of Gentile nations in Israel's hope, nor the difference that would exist between Israel's immediate experience of judgment and the world's delay in its own judgments. The primary thing would be the fact that Christ's work would have to precede final judgment so that some would be spared that judgment.

Not all Israel would be saved in terms of its full number of citizens. But the composite nation would have to be saved as a complete political entity at some point. And we know that will be at the end of the present age of Christianity.

 

[locust]

​

Joel's prophecy will not be completely fulfilled until the millennial kingdom and the final judgment. But Peter, by using it, shows that Pentecost was a pre-fulfillment, a taste of what will happen in the millennial kingdom when the Spirit is poured out on all flesh. In Joel 2:28 it says "And it shall come to pass afterward". The answer to the question "after what?" needs to be addressed.

This is from my study Bible (Macarthur). I skipped some of it.

Acts Chapter 2 we read from below , which referred to Joel chapter 2 .

2:17 last days. This phrase refers to the present era of redemptive history from the first coming of Christ (Hebrews 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20, 1 john 2:18) to His return.

2:17-18 Dreams, Prophecy, Wonders, signs (I'll skip this part unless you really want to know)

2:19 Blood...Fire...Vapor of Smoke. These phenomena are all connected with events surrounding Christ's second coming and signal the establishment of the earthly kingdom: Blood (Revelation 6:8, Revelation 8:7-8, Revelation 9:15, Revelation 14:20, Revelation 16:3); Fire (Revelation 8:5, Revelation 8:7-8, Revelation 8:10); and Smoke Revelation 9:2-3, Revelation 9:17-18, Revelation 18:9, Revelation 18:18)

2:20 Sun...Darkness...Moon into blood. CF. Matthew 24:29-30;...Day of the Lord...The day of the Lord will come with the return of Jesus Christ (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:2, Revelation 19:11-15)

The context of Joel 2 is the great millennial Kingdom Joel's prophecy is related to the Second Coming. Notice that everything promised in the prophecy did not happen on the day of Pentecost. What happened in Acts 2:1-13 was a preview of final Kingdom events. The people had a taste of what will happen when Jesus returns. Peter wasn't claiming that all the elements of Joel's prophecy were fulfilled that day, but he was confirming it was a glimpse of final glory. In fact, everything Jesus did in His ministry--all His signs, wonders, and miracles (and those performed by the apostles)--was a taste of His Second Coming. That's why the writer of Hebrews said the law is "a shadow of good things to come" (Heb. 10:1).

Thoughts?

should we maybe first figure out who or what the ''Sun'' part represents ?

 

[RandyK]

should we maybe first figure out who or what the ''Sun'' part represents ?

I think this is just common poetic expression of an apocalyptic event, depicted as seen at the time in times of war, when enemy nations would invade and burn up villages and crops. The sun would be darkened by the smoke, or perhaps the night depicts the end of a long day, as if all was done in vain.

The heavenly bodies sometimes were used to express the light of exalted leadership, whether of angels, religious leaders, or Christ. It would be context that determines how the sun, moon, and stars are being used by the writers. For example, Joseph received dreams of the same obviously and explicitly depicting Israel and his sons.

In Joel, the locusts literally came in in such massive numbers that the sky turned darkwith the hordes. It was very much a literal judgment against Israel for their lack of religious devotion and sins.

This judgment could be softened by prayer and by fasting. It would then lead to a time of restoration and spiritual blessing with the renewed presence of God in their midst.

 

[locust]

ah but if the sun went dark we would freeze if the sun went dark we would not be able to see ,it the sun went dark so would the moon ,it reflects the light of the sun.
stars are much bigger than the earth so the thought that a star could fall to earth just does not fit . stars do how ever give direction/guidance ,
it does not say the light of the stars was blocked out . a falling /failing star meaning , leadership by either men or organizations , was supposed to give guidance but it failed .............it would be a time of distress .
there you have a shot in the dark

 

[PetraSophie]

Hi Petra

Welcome back to the forum. I was here about twenty years ago myself, then I kind of fell off of the social grid for a while. I actually took that part of the opening post from my Macarthur study Bible many years back. I just cut and pasted it from another forum that I also used to use. I'll see if I can find that Bible to fill in the blanks. I use large print now, so no need for small print anymore. That Bible could be buried anywhere, if I didn't already give it away.

Petra. I went to a similar church a while back. I always felt the same way. I don't believe that the sign gift are for today, but we'll save that for another discussion. We do need the filling daily, though. Letting the Holy Spirit guide our everyday thoughts and decisions. The best way to do that is obedience, and saturating our mind in the word of God.

God will come back in His timing. It's not for us to usher anything in, so, I wouldn't put that burden on yourself. We have enough on our plate already, right?

Feeling defeated and overwhelmed can be a result of not feeding your spirit with the Word of God. I get that way when I starve myself spiritually from the word of God. Even replacing that with all the miracles, signs, etc, will drain you spiritually. But, feeling that way can can also be normal. God does some of his best work in us just after He strips us down. It's a good place to be. It's a great time to follow hard after Jesus, through His word.

I've posted this quote a few times, because I need to be reminded all the time. Perhaps it will put you back on track to hear it also.

Spurgeon...

Quote: It is ever the Holy Spirit's work to turn our eyes away from self to Jesus; but Satan's work is just the opposite of this, for he is constantly trying to make us regard ourselves instead of Christ. He insinuates, "Your sins are too great for pardon; you have no faith; you do not repent enough; you will never be able to continue to the end; you have not the joy of his children; you have such a wavering hold of Jesus." All these are thoughts about self, and we shall never find comfort or assurance by looking within. But the Holy Spirit turns our eyes entirely away from self: he tells us we are nothing, but that "Christ is All in All." Remember, therefore, it is not your hold of Christ that saves you--it is Christ; it is not your joy in Christ that saves you--it is Christ; it is not even faith in Christ, thought that be the instrument--it is Christ's blood and merits; therefore, look not so much to your hand with which you art grasping Christ, as to Christ; look not to your hope, but to Jesus, the source of your hope; look not to your faith, but to Jesus, the author and finisher of your faith. We shall never find happiness by looking at our prayers, our doings, or our feelings; it is what Jesus is, not what we are, that gives rest to the soul. If we would at once overcome Satan and have peace with God, it must be by "looking unto Jesus." Keep your eye simply on him; let his death, his sufferings, his merits, his glories, his intercession, be fresh upon your mind; when you wake in the morning look to him; when you lie down at night look to him. Do not let your hopes and fears come between you and Jesus; follow hard after him, and he will never fail you."

Dave

Thank you Dave

 

[PetraSophie]

Amos 5:18-19 "Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! Why would you have the day of the Lord?
It is darkness, and not light, as if a man fled from a lion, and a bear met him, or went into the house and leaned his hand against the wall, and a serpent bit him."

Hi, Have a question so: Are we not supposed to be longing for the 2nd coming of Jesus?

 

[PetraSophie]

There are churches out there that are very much alive just like in Acts ! If your church is not doing these things you need to find out why .
The people of the world now would rather pray to their screens .

Yes, and Like James 1, too
Know a church that is good but is too far away now where I live atm.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Hi, Have a question so: Are we not supposed to be longing for the 2nd coming of Jesus?

Hi PetraSophie. Let me quote some scripture first:

Romans 8:9 "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."

Romans 6:11 "So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus."

If one is alive in Christ Jesus and belongs to him, one must watch and wait. Christ did not ask or require of those saved to long for Him for if one is saved, one is alive in Christ Jesus and the presence of God in their lives is more real than anything else and the utter focus of one's mind heart and soul. In the saved there is love for God not longing for God.