The Definition of Sin

[elijah23]

I don’t know if it is possible, in a detailed manner, to define sin. However, I believe this statement by Jesus goes a long way in accomplishing that:

[20] And he said, "What comes out of a man is what defiles a man.
[21] For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery,
[22] coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.
[23] All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man." Mark 7:20-23 RSV

 

[MegaMass]

To my opinnion, you feel guilt when you are doing sin. The feeling can also come afterwards.

To my understanding that is God's way to tell you are doing something wrong.

But what if the God is not talking to you or is granting privileges to do wrong things with-out guilt? Well then you are either mentally ill (narcist etc.) or following some other power. Could be Satan in disguise or some else foul force.

 

[smaller]

I don’t know if it is possible, in a detailed manner, to define sin. However, I believe this statement by Jesus goes a long way in accomplishing that:

[20] And he said, "What comes out of a man is what defiles a man.
[21] For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery,
[22] coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.
[23] All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man." Mark 7:20-23 RSV

Scriptures have provided us a very clear definition of sin:

SIN IS

A. Transgression of the Law:

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

B. Anything not of faith:

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

C. Of the DEVIL

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

What then is FAITH?

The most clear cut path of the determination of faith = LOVE in ACTION:

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

It is GOD who leads people to the LOVE He has expressed in His Son, Jesus Christ to 'all' mankind.

When a person has FAITH working through LOVE it is actually GOD LIVING IN THEM

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

It is the DEVIL in man that can not DO THIS and will RESIST these facts every single time as the devil RESISTS God and SINS in MAN.

That effort of SATAN in MAN will prove FUTILE in the END.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Drew]

SIN IS

A. Transgression of the Law:

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

I certainly agree that this one way in which the term "sin" is properly used.

However, as the following text from Paul clearly shows, "sin" is something that existed before the Law of Moses was given and, importantly, exists even in the absence of any kind of commandment or law - this is surely what Paul means when he refers to people sinning in a manner "other" than the sin of Adam (who, unlike these others, was given an actual commandment - thou shalt not eat).

13 for [h]until the Law sin was in the world, but (AA)sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned (AB)in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a [i](AC)type of Him who was to come.

 

[smaller]

I certainly agree that this one way in which the term "sin" is properly used.

However, as the following text from Paul clearly shows, "sin" is something that existed before the Law of Moses was given and, importantly, exists even in the absence of any kind of commandment or law - this is surely what Paul means when he refers to people sinning in a manner "other" than the sin of Adam (who, unlike these others, was given an actual commandment - thou shalt not eat).

13 for [h]until the Law sin was in the world, but (AA)sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned (AB)in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a [i](AC)type of Him who was to come.

Drew, all LAW was defined by Paul as this. You are welcome to slice and dice whatever 'you think' the LAW is, but Paul is the clear winner on this one. You can place 'any commandment' that you want to under this heading and it will still funnel down to ONE LAW, ONE COMMAND.

Romans 13:
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now you are welcome to slice and dice this matter and ANY COMMANDMENT however you 'think' you see it.

I can read. Your methods of slicing and dicing do not mean a thing when Paul's description and method makes it so easy that A CHILD can understand ANY COMMANDMENT.

enjoy!

s

 

[elijah23]

To my opinnion, you feel guilt when you are doing sin. The feeling can also come afterwards.

To my understanding that is God's way to tell you are doing something wrong.

But what if the God is not talking to you or is granting privileges to do wrong things with-out guilt? Well then you are either mentally ill (narcist etc.) or following some other power. Could be Satan in disguise or some else foul force.

Temptation to sin can be rather powerful.

 

[elijah23]

Scriptures have provided us a very clear definition of sin:

SIN IS

A. Transgression of the Law:

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

B. Anything not of faith:

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

C. Of the DEVIL

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

What then is FAITH?

The most clear cut path of the determination of faith = LOVE in ACTION:

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

It is GOD who leads people to the LOVE He has expressed in His Son, Jesus Christ to 'all' mankind.

When a person has FAITH working through LOVE it is actually GOD LIVING IN THEM

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

It is the DEVIL in man that can not DO THIS and will RESIST these facts every single time as the devil RESISTS God and SINS in MAN.

That effort of SATAN in MAN will prove FUTILE in the END.

enjoy!

smaller

You start out by saying that sin is transgression of law. One then must define the law, mustn't one?

 

[smaller]

You start out by saying that sin is transgression of law. One then must define the law, mustn't one?

You or I or anyone else is not going to get away from the conclusion of the LAW.

The conclusion of the LAW is that ALL HAVE SIN, period, end of conversation.

Neither one of us is going to eliminate sin with us or make it 'legal' or 'lawful.'

We could follow every jot and tittle of the law and guess what? The sin that is present within us is still ILLEGAL no matter how you try to 'define the Law.'

As much whitewashed plaster that is put on the outside of the cup will not eliminate the fact of sin in the heart.

We can not say we have no sin and be 'in Truth.'

Interesting dilemma isn't it? We can go to Christ and ask forgiveness, but the fact is that no sin will ever be legal and Jesus has never authorized sin.

The real questions about sin is HOW DO I STOP IT? And the fact is we don't.

Believers absolutely LOVE to overlook the fact of sin being present within us.

I spent 20 years as a believer being one of the best hypocrites on the planet. Jesus finally asked me why I was such A LIAR? My response? Good point Lord! You're right, I'm wrong.

At the point that I saw sin was OF THE DEVIL I knew I was not 'alone' in this matter and that the DEVIL is not about to be legal or lawful, and that any attempt to make the DEVIL legal, lawful, behave or to cover that working up was going to end up being quite a fruitless effort.

So, next time you have as little as a sinful thought, just remember that it is not just you as Gods child having that thought. The tempter in our minds/hearts is a fact of our present life. Some know it, most don't. They just think it's themselves.

If your mind says 'it's just you' that is from the tempter too.

Some are blatant and outright slaves. Some are led to DIVIDE THEMSELVES from that working. Part of the division process is to be truthful about the matter.

The fact is, sin is of the devil, so, do the math. The fact will probably stick in your craw for a bit.

But, if and when you see it, you WILL despise the fact of that presence, and you may even see this statement from Jesus differently:

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

If you feel a little burning in your heart when you realize the sin in you is of the devil, that is the devil reminding you not to look too closely and go back to sleep.

s

 

[elijah23]

You or I or anyone else is not going to get away from the conclusion of the LAW.

The conclusion of the LAW is that ALL HAVE SIN, period, end of conversation.

Neither one of us is going to eliminate sin with us or make it 'legal' or 'lawful.'

We could follow every jot and tittle of the law and guess what? The sin that is present within us is still ILLEGAL no matter how you try to 'define the Law.'

As much whitewashed plaster that is put on the outside of the cup will not eliminate the fact of sin in the heart.

We can not say we have no sin and be 'in Truth.'

Interesting dilemma isn't it? We can go to Christ and ask forgiveness, but the fact is that no sin will ever be legal and Jesus has never authorized sin.

The real questions about sin is HOW DO I STOP IT? And the fact is we don't.

Believers absolutely LOVE to overlook the fact of sin being present within us.

I spent 20 years as a believer being one of the best hypocrites on the planet. Jesus finally asked me why I was such A LIAR? My response? Good point Lord! You're right, I'm wrong.

At the point that I saw sin was OF THE DEVIL I knew I was not 'alone' in this matter and that the DEVIL is not about to be legal or lawful, and that any attempt to make the DEVIL legal, lawful, behave or to cover that working up was going to end up being quite a fruitless effort.

So, next time you have as little as a sinful thought, just remember that it is not just you as Gods child having that thought. The tempter in our minds/hearts is a fact of our present life. Some know it, most don't. They just think it's themselves.

If your mind says 'it's just you' that is from the tempter too.

Some are blatant and outright slaves. Some are led to DIVIDE THEMSELVES from that working. Part of the division process is to be truthful about the matter.

The fact is, sin is of the devil, so, do the math. The fact will probably stick in your craw for a bit.

But, if and when you see it, you WILL despise the fact of that presence, and you may even see this statement from Jesus differently:

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

If you feel a little burning in your heart when you realize the sin in you is of the devil, that is the devil reminding you not to look too closely and go back to sleep.

s

My purpose is to define in detail what sin is so that we know what we should do and not do.

 

[smaller]

My purpose is to define in detail what sin is so that we know what we should do and not do.

Make 'my sin' legal!

lol

s

 

[elijah23]

Make 'my sin' legal!

lol

s

No, we'd better not.

 

[Drew]

I can read. Your methods of slicing and dicing do not mean a thing when Paul's description and method makes it so easy that A CHILD can understand ANY COMMANDMENT.

Paul says what he says in Romans 5. He makes it clear that sin was in the world before the Law of Moses was given. And he also makes it clear that sin held sway over those who did not sin in the sense that Adam sinned. What does Paul mean? Clearly, he is saying that Adam's sin was the kind where a commandment ("thou shalt not eat") was being broken. So Paul clearly de-couples sin from law - he believes that sin has an existence even in the absence of law.

The fact that Paul commands us to love does not, of course, logically lead to the conclusion that people have lived who have sinned even if they were not subject either to the Law of Moses, the commandment "thou shalt not", or even this command of Paul to love.

Besides, as I plan to argue in subsequent posts, Paul sees "sin" as having an existence independent of law.

 

[Drew]

deleted own post.

 

[Former Christian]

The Greek word that is translated as sin means simply to miss the mark. Adam was guilty of missing the mark when he ate from the wrong tree that God specifically told him not to eat of. The Law came along so that we might have a guide as to what sin is in some detail. But Jesus then came along and summarized the law as loving God and one's neighbor. And summarized it further for those who are in Christ by telling them to love one another as he has loved them. Loving one another enables those who are in Christ to know sin. For no one who is in Christ can love God apart from loving all who are in Christ. When we try to foist our own Biblical interpretations on one another as if they are objective truth, that is NOT loving one another. In spite of how much some might say that telling the truth is equal to love. A meaningless cliche in relation to the reality of the situation. For to the one who is in Christ, only the Bible contains that which is objective truth explained. All who are in Christ together may understand something of that objective truth. But no individual alone, especially if such is practicing Biblical interpretation, can know objective truth to foist on others.

FC

 

[smaller]

Paul says what he says in Romans 5. He makes it clear that sin was in the world before the Law of Moses was given.

Never said otherwise.

And he also makes it clear that sin held sway over those who did not sin in the sense that Adam sinned.

Never said otherwise.

What does Paul mean? Clearly, he is saying that Adam's sin was the kind where a commandment ("thou shalt not eat") was being broken. So Paul clearly de-couples sin from law - he believes that sin has an existence even in the absence of law.

Again, never said otherwise. Sin was passed from Adam into 'all' mankind.

The fact that Paul commands us to love does not, of course, logically lead to the conclusion that people have lived who have sinned even if they were not subject either to the Law of Moses, the commandment "thou shalt not", or even this command of Paul to love.

Scripture has 'concluded' the fact that all have sinned and have sin.

Besides, as I plan to argue in subsequent posts, Paul sees "sin" as having an existence independent of law.

That is not in question and we agree, so don't bother with a post for that on my count.

s

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I don’t know if it is possible, in a detailed manner, to define sin.

Sure it is - Sin is that which works EVIL. Essentially, it's "Rebellion" in all of its various facets. No further detail is required.

 

[childeye]

Sin is any direction away from God. God is Love, and therefore Love cannot be conjured by rationale. For instance, Love others as you would want to be loved is a rational statement, but yet remains contingent upon Love. Consequently, to the carnal mind Love is not rational.

 

[elijah23]

I don’t know if it is possible, in a detailed manner, to define sin.

Sure it is - Sin is that which works EVIL. Essentially, it's "Rebellion" in all of its various facets. No further detail is required.

Some people sin without knowing it, it would seem to me. Some people don't think sexual permissiveness is a sin. Some people don't think pride is a sin. Some people don't think substance dependency is a sin. For me it is helpful to deal in specifics.