Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

  • Site Restructuring

    The site is currently undergoing some restructuring, which will take some time. Sorry for the inconvenience if things are a little hard to find right now.

    Please let us know if you find any new problems with the way things work and we will get them fixed. You can always report any problems or difficulty finding something in the Talk With The Staff / Report a site issue forum.

The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment

Donations

Total amount
$1,642.00
Goal
$5,080.00

jgredline

Member
As I was doing some research on a differant subject; I came accross this document. I read it and well; I just had to share it....
Enjoy.....

The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment


Naturally some Christians tend to shy away from the doctrine of eternal punishment, hoping there may be some way out for people who are not saved. Many preachers seldom mention the fact that apart from the grace of God and faith in Jesus there is no forgiveness, and that the unsaved, because of their sin, merit eternal punishment. The idea of a loving God requiring eternal punishment of those who are unsaved naturally raises questions.
What about those who never hear the gospel and who die without learning of the grace of God? Are they doomed to eternal punishment? Is a pious Jew or a religious Muslim who carefully follows his doctrines also doomed to punishment because he has not accepted Christ as his Savior?
The idea of eternal punishment in hell has long been caricatured by those who do not believe it. In fact, some writers say that even if the Bible does teach eternal punishment, still it could not be true. However, for those who believe the Bible is inspired by God and is therefore inerrant, there is no option except to believe what the Bible teaches about hell.
The basic problem is that it is difficult for sinful human beings to contemplate the inexorable righteousness of God that demands infinite punishment for infinite sin and provides no grace or forgiveness for those who have not trusted in Christ. After all, the Bible is our only source of proving that God loves us and has provided grace through Jesus Christ in His death on the cross. The Bible, however, also teaches eternal punishment. We are not free to accept one doctrine and reject the other simply because the latter is contrary to our way of thinking or is difficult to understand.
Various Approaches to the Doctrine of Eternal Punishment
Some may attempt to soften the Bible’s description of hell as a place of fire and sulfur (Rev. 19:20; 20:10; 21:8; “fire and brimstone†in the kjv) by saying the description of it is metaphorical and not literal. Some who hold this position, however, agree that it is eternal even though they hold that it is not literal fire. However, since Christ Himself repeatedly emphasized that the punishment involves fire (Matt. 5:22; 18:8–9; 25:41; Mark 9:43, 48), it is difficult to find any other meaning.

In Roman Catholic theology the doctrine of purgatory emerged. (It was defined by the Council of Trent in the sixteenth century.) This doctrine states that while Christians can be forgiven for sins confessed, sins not confessed require a purging experience of suffering in order to prepare them for heaven. For support of this view Roman Catholics appeal to 2 Maccabees 12:43–46, but this is one of several apocryphal books not found in the Old and New Testaments. Even Roman Catholics admit that the Bible itself apart from the Apocrypha does not teach the doctrine of purgatory. But they say the doctrine is true because it was adopted by a decree of the Church of Rome. They recognize, however, that punishment can be eternal for those who are not believers in Christ.

A popular contemporary view is that of conditional immortalityâ€â€the idea that only the righteous will be resurrected and at death the wicked are annihilated. While annihilationism has been taught for some time by Seventh-Day Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses, some evangelicals, such as John R. W. Stott, are now teaching it. In a sense immortality is conditional on whether people are righteous in this life. Some take a more moderate view that the wicked may be resurrected and punished for a short time and then annihilated. The prob-lem with the view of annihilationism is that it is not supported in the Bible; it does not mesh with statements on eternal punishment, such as those in Matthew 25:46 and Revelation 20:10, 14–15.
These verses also show that universalism, the popular view that every human being will eventually be in heaven, is false. A number of evangelicals are now teaching universalism. (Others are proposing related views, namely, that individuals who have never heard of Christ can be saved or that people will have opportunity after death to receive or reject Christ.) People holding universalism attempt to base it on Jesus’ statement in John 12:32 that He will “draw all men†to Himself, and Paul’s words in 1 Timothy 2:4 that God “wants all men to be saved.†But in John 12:32 Jesus was saying that the Cross (His being “lifted upâ€Â) makes it possible for both Jews and Gentiles to be saved, and 1 Timothy 2:4 says that God desires everyone to be saved but does not affirm that all will be. The Bible repeatedly speaks of those who without Christ are perishing (John 3:16, 18, 36; Rom. 5:8; 1 Cor. 1:18; Eph. 2:12; 2 Thess. 1:8–9). Universalism, while appealing to God’s love, overlooks the biblical teaching on future judgments and on hell.
Biblical Terms for Hell

The principal New Testament word for hell is hades, which is equivalent to the Old Testament word sheol. These terms refer sometimes to the grave where bodies are buried, and sometimes to life after the grave, that is, to the soul’s existence after death.

A New Testament word that clearly refers to eternal punishment is gehenna (“hellâ€Â), occurring twelve times.1 One additional word, tartarus (“hellâ€Â), occurs only in 2 Peter 2:4, and is either another name for gehenna or is a separate abode of bound fallen angels who are awaiting final judgment. More than any other person in the New Testament Jesus taught the doctrine of eternal punishment.

The term gehenna is related to a place called “the Valley of Hinnom†or “the Valley of Ben Hinnom.†It is mentioned in Joshua 15:8; 18:16; and Nehemiah 11:30. This valley immediately southwest of Jerusalem was where garbage was burned and the bodies of criminals were buried. In Jeremiah’s day human sacrifices were offered to the false gods Baal and Molech in this valley (Jer. 19:6; 32:35), so that he called it “the Valley of Slaughter†(7:30–33; 19:6). The Jews therefore associated this terrible place with the everlasting punishment of the wicked, which is the way Jesus used it every time He mentioned it. He said, “If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut if off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell†(Matt. 18:8–9). And in Mark 9:47–48 Jesus said, “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ †The expression “their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched†is a quotation from the last verse of Isaiah (66:24). It supports the idea that Christ’s use of the word gehenna refers to eternal punishment.


In the judgment of the Gentiles, when Christ will pronounce judgment on the “goats,†He will say to them, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels†(Matt. 25:41). This passage affirms that the eternal punishment is one of fire and that it lasts forever, a concept mentioned again in verse 46. “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.â€Â

Though He did not explain it, Christ indicated that some would be punished more than others, depending on how well they understood the will of their master (Luke 12:47–48). Hypocrites are said to be punished more severely than others (Mark 12:40). And inhabitants of Korazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum will suffer more than those of Tyre and Sidon (Matt. 11:21–24). “The day of judgment†in 11:22, 24 may refer to the day of their death.
>Conscious punishment in hell is also indicated by Jesus’ seven references to the fact that after death the wicked will experience “weeping and gnashing of teeth.â€Â2 Hell is also described as a place of darkness (Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 25:30).

The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment in the Epistles
Though Christ was the principal teacher of eternal punishment, this doctrine is also clearly taught in the Epistles. Sudden destruction is predicted for those whom the Day of the Lord will overtake (1 Thess. 5:3). They are said to be recipients of divine wrath (5:9), and “they will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power†(2 Thess. 1:9).
Hebrews 6:2 refers to “the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment,†and 10:26–27 speaks of “a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.†Hell is a place of “blackest darkness†(2 Pet. 2:17).
The present judgment of angels who are confined after their original sin will end in judgment: “For...God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment†(2:4). The Book of Jude refers to the same concept, namely, that bound fallen angels, presently confined in darkness, are awaiting judgment (Jude 6).

The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment in the Book of Revelation
In describing those who worship the Beast in the Great Tribulation, a word of warning is given by an angel: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name†(Rev. 14:9–11).


Though the word gehenna is not found in the Book of Revelation, it is clear that the Book of Revelation continues the New Testament teaching about eternal, conscious punishment.
The most comprehensive statement on eternal punishment is found in connection with the judgment of the Great White Throne. “The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death†(20:13–14).
Physical death separates an individual from his or her body; the second death separates the individual from the grace and mercy of God. The lake of fire will not annihilate the unsaved, for Revelation 20:10 states that the devil will be “thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.†Along with the fallen angels, they will suffer punishment forever. While people may dispute whether the Word of God is true, fulfillment of these prophecies will demonstrate that when God speaks He does so in complete accuracy and literalness.
Summary

The Bible clearly teaches that eternal punishment will be by fire. This was repeated so often from the lips of Jesus as well as by several New Testament writers that interpreters are not free to arbitrarily say it must mean something else.
The question as to whether eternal fire will annihilate those suffering in it is answered by the experience of the Beast, the False Prophet, and Satan, whose torment will last forever. Also the unsaved, from the moment of their death (which in some cases will be thousands of years before the Great White Throne judgment) will suffer, as described in Luke 16:19–31. However, the souls of believers who die are instantly transported into the presence of God.


The fact of eternal punishment of the lost should motivate Christians to do all they can to lead people to Christ before it is too late. While heaven will be a wonderful reunion of those who are saved, there will be no such fellowship in hell. No doubt much of this is difficult to understand. But apart from faith in Christ there is no mercy or grace. In His holiness and righteousness God has no alternative but to punish those, whether angels or people, who continue to sin against Him.

Swindoll, C. R., & Zuck, R. B. Understanding Christian theology
 
:roll: 'sigh'. Where do we start with the myriad of assumptions and falsehoods in Swindoll's article?

Frankly, jg, I've heard better arguments from you.

jgredline said:
Some may attempt to soften the Bible’s description of hell as a place of fire and sulfur (Rev. 19:20; 20:10; 21:8; “fire and brimstone†in the kjv) by saying the description of it is metaphorical and not literal. Some who hold this position, however, agree that it is eternal even though they hold that it is not literal fire. However, since Christ Himself repeatedly emphasized that the punishment involves fire (Matt. 5:22; 18:8–9; 25:41; Mark 9:43, 48), it is difficult to find any other meaning.

Though I don't disregard the idea that the fire is NOT literal, I would like to know how Swindoll interprets 'death' and 'hell' as well as the 'beast' can be physically cast into the lake of fire. I don't know about you but I've never tried to manhandle 'death' and cast it somewhere.

Throughout the Bible, 'fire and brimstone' have been used figuratively and thei literal uses have made it the primary symbol and reality of complete and utter destruction. There IS proof that the fire may be symbolic of destruction.

jgredline said:
The problem with the view of annihilationism is that it is not supported in the Bible; it does not mesh with statements on eternal punishment, such as those in Matthew 25:46 and Revelation 20:10, 14–15.

Wow! If only great scholars like Stott, Pinnock, Wenham, Hughes and Green had looked at those two verses, they could have stopped this heresy right off the bat! 'Not supported in the Bible'? Oh come on. There is waaaaay more evidence for annihilation then there is for eternal torment even if both sides recognized the other to support the opposite.

jg, I will address Matthew 25:46 in your other thread again.

jgredline said:
A New Testament word that clearly refers to eternal punishment is gehenna (“hellâ€Â), occurring twelve times.?1? One additional word, tartarus (“hellâ€Â), occurs only in 2 Peter 2:4, and is either another name for gehenna or is a separate abode of bound fallen angels who are awaiting final judgment.

Come on, Chuck, which one is it? "Another name for gehenna OR a separate abode"?? What Bible are you reading? Christ and John make it plain that 'gehenna' is not a 'reserving place of judgment' or that the angels are 'cast down' into it. Satan and his minions are cast into the lake of fire at the end, not right now.

Gehenna and Tartaros are so far removed in context that it is laughable that Swindoll tries to make them the same and then gives them another option where they are complete opposites!

jgredline said:
Though He did not explain it, Christ indicated that some would be punished more than others, depending on how well they understood the will of their master (Luke 12:47–48). Hypocrites are said to be punished more severely than others (Mark 12:40). And inhabitants of Korazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum will suffer more than those of Tyre and Sidon (Matt. 11:21–24). “The day of judgment†in 11:22, 24 may refer to the day of their death.

And the concept of 'degrees of hell' when it is all eternal anyway makes as much sense as you having a bigger mansion then me in heaven because you were a 'better' Christian. If the punishment is 'fire' and this fire 'torments' and it is for all 'eternity' with no redemption, mercy or reformation, then degrees of punishment are nothing more than sadism. What is the actual point of it all??

That's like saying "I'm sticking you both in a room forever with no water, heat or light. There will be rats crawling around which will most likely gnaw on both of you and constant noise around you which will make it impossible to sleep. But because prisoner #1 was a worse criminal then prisoner #2, he doesn't get a mattress to sleep on."

If the punishment is 'infinite' because all mankind sinned against an Infinite Being (as some like to justify hell as), then why are there degrees of punishment??

jgredline said:
Conscious punishment in hell is also indicated by Jesus’ seven references to the fact that after death the wicked will experience “weeping and gnashing of teeth.�2? Hell is also described as a place of darkness (Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 25:30).

The assumption here is that the 'weeping and gnashing' of teeth is because of the burning pain of the eternal fire. The 'weeping' and 'gnashing' along with 'renting of clothes' was the way that Bible folk mourned a death. It was a sign of mental anguish. Whether eternal punishment or eternal death, the wicked will experience the mental pain of realizing what they missed out on. That they could have chosen God but didn't and now miss out on eternal bliss with God.

This doesn't have to signify 'crying because of fire burns'

jgredline said:
Though Christ was the principal teacher of eternal punishment, this doctrine is also clearly taught in the Epistles. Sudden destruction is predicted for those whom the Day of the Lord will overtake (1 Thess. 5:3). They are said to be recipients of divine wrath (5:9), and “they will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power†(2 Thess. 1:9).

I would like to know how there is a constant process of 'destruction'? Destruction is a state. Destruction presupposes annihilation. Everlasting destruction is speaking of the results of the destruction.

Are you saying that 'everlasting redemption' (another term in used in the Bible) means we are being redeemed for all eternity? No one supposes that we are being redeemed or being saved forever. We were redeemed and saved once for all by Christ with eternal results. In the same way the lost will not be passing through a process of punishment for ever but will be punished once and for all with eternal results.


jgredline said:
The present judgment of angels who are confined after their original sin will end in judgment: “For...God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment†(2:4). The Book of Jude refers to the same concept, namely, that bound fallen angels, presently confined in darkness, are awaiting judgment (Jude 6).

Going back to Swindoll's earlier comment. Nowhere in the Bible is 'gehenna' used this way. Why does Swindoll seem so confused as to what 'hell' means?

I'm not even going to go into Revelation as this has all been explained before. I won't even go near Luke 16 as this has been hashed out over and over. Suffice it to say that Swindoll has no proof whatsoever except Luke 16 that the wickeds' 'souls' are suffering consciously in Hades at this moment. Nothing in the Bible supports it (including the 10 other translations of 'Hades'). Pretty important topic to hear once from Christ in a parable and then absolutely nothing at all on it throughout the rest of the NT (never mind nothing from the OT on the matter either).

Needless to say, Swindoll is adding nothing new but gratuitous assumptions based on the simple false premise that the wicked are immortal in soul and body thus allowing them to burn for eternity.
 

Donations

Total amount
$1,642.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Back
Top