swordofpeace
Member
A lot of talk is going on about the Essenes. I have a history of interest in them. Now I have some new thoughts and things to say about them.
They are said to be highly respected among all people's and groups (cf Josephus, Philo, Pliny). They wanted to cultivate the highest thoughts to train their minds to be holy and they sought above all things purity and truth. Nothing seems more spiritual, and in fact maybe they were born along by the Holy Spirit. Yet what I am about to say for those who know who they were and about their attitudes and practices will seem to fly in the face of common sense and reason, which is that:
Their ways are the products of the natural mind!!!
You heard me right! This kind of thinking and behavior is a product of the natural mind, the natural man and things of the spirit are a mystery to those who would earn God's favor, love and grace through such means! Cf: Romans 8 and 1 Corinthians 2:13-15 for more insights into the natural versus spiritual man/mind.
I understand that when they appeared on the scene, the mystery of Grace had not yet been revealed. When Christ kept hinting at it to his disciples, or trying to teach him, they never understood. And they were his chosen apostles. So it is no wonder and not as any kind of insult or judgement that I say their ways are the product of a natural mind. Grace had not been revealed. Or?
Certainly on the earth, if the descriptions of the Essenes are to be trusted (and they are from very very trustworthy sources), then they of anybody are probably the most 'spiritual' of the earth. They even lived long lives as a result.
And in fact I admire then as a natural man. I think we can emulate them in many ways- their community living, their attention and focus on the inward life, the knowledge of agriculture and gardening, etc etc etc. I could go on. Their scholarship. Their egalitarian thinking. Really I believe this, and probably many of them actually became christian and became part of the body of Christ.
So I tend to take the view of Jesus in regards to John the Baptist (whom many esteemed scholars actually consider to be an Essene of Qumran region)
I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
And lo, many consider John the Baptist to be an essene of Qumran, So the comparison is fitting!
The Essenes may very well be some of the greatest from those born of a woman. I would say yes this is probably true. A lot of Californians are getting into Essenism and it worries me because I don't think they really understand the bible. They end up even rejecting Paul in order to preserve their theologies and understandings! I am trying to show we can have the best of both worlds. We can continue to admire and support and follow in a earthly way the ways of the Essenes, just as we would say John the Baptist or the prophets of old. But least in the Kingdom. Those who argue that Paul corrupted the Gospel of Christ in order to hang on to their Essenism I think don't really understand Paul, because the natural mind cannot easily understand his writings. Amen?
Here is where I consider their ways of the natural man- even though they are seeking the spirit or purity. Maybe they are born by a Holy Spirit. And if they continue their practices but with an understanding of Grace, then there is no problem.
But their ways are of ever increasing practice of the Torah, ever narrower circles. They put themselves into communities, whereas the Christians went out into the world. They were in the world but not of the world. I think there is no problem practicing good works in order to love God back, to please him, but we must realize we already have his love. We don't have to earn it. It was a free gift. This is what the natural mind has a hard time grasping.
What is grace like? Grace is like warm oil being poured over the head and body, just at the time we feel unworthy and despicable. Grace is a hand reaching down and pulling us out of a rushing river that is headed for a steep waterfall. We cannot take credit or boast for any of these gifts. Paul persecuted the Christians and then he was shown grace. Who would understand Grace better than him.
So many essenes probably joined Christianity, as we are told a couple of John's disciples joined with Jesus. Maybe even a large share of them because we are told they were waiting for the messiah. And we are sure they did their best to be holy- which was probably pleasing in the eyes of God.
But where the problem lies is when we mix or substitute the theology of scripture, of unearned undeserved Grace-with their theology or a modern Essenian theology of salvation or grace or whatever word you want to use-righteousness through works, as many are doing. I hold the view by the way that Grace is not understood, it is not some wimpy 'looking the other way to our sin' but is highly active and constantly at work in pulling us out of sin and sanctifying us- through 'fire' even sometimes if necessary (Paul's thorn in the side)
This is the way I think is right: Feel God's love and receive his grace. Grace has been given once but perceiving and delighting in it is a lifelong work. Next, after feeling loved, it will be natural to love and serve him back, by being a brother to the world and a faithful witness. If you feel unmotivated at times, go back to step one. Remember also he wants to be loved with our minds as well as our hearts and bodies and souls- That means scholarship! And in our loving and serving him back, we don't go for the works of the Mosaic torah- i.e. circumcision, Sabbath, etc, but we go for those things which sum up the law- love your neighbor and love God, as the Holy Spirit moves us.
If we try to be like the Essenes to win God's love we are confused and do not understand grace. If we try on the other hand to be like them to have a pure and focused life, to escape the spiritually empty world of culture and commerce, and enjoy fruits of our deeds on the physical plane, then we will certainly enjoy a relatively more peaceful and abundant, happier life, no doubt, because as one sows, so one reaps. Yet will not really know Christ or understand the mystery of Grace- which happens so often to those who were anti-essene in every way. Just look at all those ex-drug users, rock band members, alcoholics, etc. and how the Holy Spirit has suddenly around-turned them, or Paul himself, which goes against the 'narrowing circles of torah obedience' essene teaching).
Well, the Essenes were truly amazing. Like John the Baptist, probably greater than anyone else born of women. Our modern 21s century culture and even modern lifestyle 21st century high tech Christians can probably even learn a lot from them and benefit on the material plane by putting ideas of theirs into practice (as I have done in California and felt peace in nature and agriculture and sense of community). Amazing. Just don't make a religion out of them. For unless they came to Christ, then it implies in the bible that those least in the kingdom are greater than them! Unless they come to Christ, I wonder if they have that annointing feeling, and that realization of God's lavish love and unconditional acceptance for who we are. I wonder also if it is a constant challenge for them to be humble. The more pure they get, the more they could easily boast of having earning something through themslves (a workman's wages, not a son's inheritance). But grace on the other hand is that oil which anoints us to be co-kings and co-ruler with Christ.
Comments?
They are said to be highly respected among all people's and groups (cf Josephus, Philo, Pliny). They wanted to cultivate the highest thoughts to train their minds to be holy and they sought above all things purity and truth. Nothing seems more spiritual, and in fact maybe they were born along by the Holy Spirit. Yet what I am about to say for those who know who they were and about their attitudes and practices will seem to fly in the face of common sense and reason, which is that:
Their ways are the products of the natural mind!!!
You heard me right! This kind of thinking and behavior is a product of the natural mind, the natural man and things of the spirit are a mystery to those who would earn God's favor, love and grace through such means! Cf: Romans 8 and 1 Corinthians 2:13-15 for more insights into the natural versus spiritual man/mind.
I understand that when they appeared on the scene, the mystery of Grace had not yet been revealed. When Christ kept hinting at it to his disciples, or trying to teach him, they never understood. And they were his chosen apostles. So it is no wonder and not as any kind of insult or judgement that I say their ways are the product of a natural mind. Grace had not been revealed. Or?
Certainly on the earth, if the descriptions of the Essenes are to be trusted (and they are from very very trustworthy sources), then they of anybody are probably the most 'spiritual' of the earth. They even lived long lives as a result.
And in fact I admire then as a natural man. I think we can emulate them in many ways- their community living, their attention and focus on the inward life, the knowledge of agriculture and gardening, etc etc etc. I could go on. Their scholarship. Their egalitarian thinking. Really I believe this, and probably many of them actually became christian and became part of the body of Christ.
So I tend to take the view of Jesus in regards to John the Baptist (whom many esteemed scholars actually consider to be an Essene of Qumran region)
I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
And lo, many consider John the Baptist to be an essene of Qumran, So the comparison is fitting!
The Essenes may very well be some of the greatest from those born of a woman. I would say yes this is probably true. A lot of Californians are getting into Essenism and it worries me because I don't think they really understand the bible. They end up even rejecting Paul in order to preserve their theologies and understandings! I am trying to show we can have the best of both worlds. We can continue to admire and support and follow in a earthly way the ways of the Essenes, just as we would say John the Baptist or the prophets of old. But least in the Kingdom. Those who argue that Paul corrupted the Gospel of Christ in order to hang on to their Essenism I think don't really understand Paul, because the natural mind cannot easily understand his writings. Amen?
Here is where I consider their ways of the natural man- even though they are seeking the spirit or purity. Maybe they are born by a Holy Spirit. And if they continue their practices but with an understanding of Grace, then there is no problem.
But their ways are of ever increasing practice of the Torah, ever narrower circles. They put themselves into communities, whereas the Christians went out into the world. They were in the world but not of the world. I think there is no problem practicing good works in order to love God back, to please him, but we must realize we already have his love. We don't have to earn it. It was a free gift. This is what the natural mind has a hard time grasping.
What is grace like? Grace is like warm oil being poured over the head and body, just at the time we feel unworthy and despicable. Grace is a hand reaching down and pulling us out of a rushing river that is headed for a steep waterfall. We cannot take credit or boast for any of these gifts. Paul persecuted the Christians and then he was shown grace. Who would understand Grace better than him.
So many essenes probably joined Christianity, as we are told a couple of John's disciples joined with Jesus. Maybe even a large share of them because we are told they were waiting for the messiah. And we are sure they did their best to be holy- which was probably pleasing in the eyes of God.
But where the problem lies is when we mix or substitute the theology of scripture, of unearned undeserved Grace-with their theology or a modern Essenian theology of salvation or grace or whatever word you want to use-righteousness through works, as many are doing. I hold the view by the way that Grace is not understood, it is not some wimpy 'looking the other way to our sin' but is highly active and constantly at work in pulling us out of sin and sanctifying us- through 'fire' even sometimes if necessary (Paul's thorn in the side)
This is the way I think is right: Feel God's love and receive his grace. Grace has been given once but perceiving and delighting in it is a lifelong work. Next, after feeling loved, it will be natural to love and serve him back, by being a brother to the world and a faithful witness. If you feel unmotivated at times, go back to step one. Remember also he wants to be loved with our minds as well as our hearts and bodies and souls- That means scholarship! And in our loving and serving him back, we don't go for the works of the Mosaic torah- i.e. circumcision, Sabbath, etc, but we go for those things which sum up the law- love your neighbor and love God, as the Holy Spirit moves us.
If we try to be like the Essenes to win God's love we are confused and do not understand grace. If we try on the other hand to be like them to have a pure and focused life, to escape the spiritually empty world of culture and commerce, and enjoy fruits of our deeds on the physical plane, then we will certainly enjoy a relatively more peaceful and abundant, happier life, no doubt, because as one sows, so one reaps. Yet will not really know Christ or understand the mystery of Grace- which happens so often to those who were anti-essene in every way. Just look at all those ex-drug users, rock band members, alcoholics, etc. and how the Holy Spirit has suddenly around-turned them, or Paul himself, which goes against the 'narrowing circles of torah obedience' essene teaching).
Well, the Essenes were truly amazing. Like John the Baptist, probably greater than anyone else born of women. Our modern 21s century culture and even modern lifestyle 21st century high tech Christians can probably even learn a lot from them and benefit on the material plane by putting ideas of theirs into practice (as I have done in California and felt peace in nature and agriculture and sense of community). Amazing. Just don't make a religion out of them. For unless they came to Christ, then it implies in the bible that those least in the kingdom are greater than them! Unless they come to Christ, I wonder if they have that annointing feeling, and that realization of God's lavish love and unconditional acceptance for who we are. I wonder also if it is a constant challenge for them to be humble. The more pure they get, the more they could easily boast of having earning something through themslves (a workman's wages, not a son's inheritance). But grace on the other hand is that oil which anoints us to be co-kings and co-ruler with Christ.
Comments?
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