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The Exorcism of Emily Rose

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cyberjosh

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I recently watched this movie and I found it alot better than I had expected. It took me two viewings to settle some things in my mind, but I believe that in one way or another all the things that were shown in the film could have happened or had some explanation. I don't necesarily agree with all of the priests views but I agree with the majority of them. One thing which I doubt a bit is the truth of the Priest's view that she saw the virgin Mary - it could have just been a angel female in appearance. Either that or Emily (whose real name was actually Anneliese Michel) hallucinated it amid her possession to help herself cope with it (and the idea of whether God would do something like that to someone is questionable). However her attitude was one of fearing God and desiring to be rid of the demons (as portrayed by the film).

Also the scientific aspects of it also had some credence. There is documented proof that drugs go hand in hand with cults involved with Satanism and other New Age religions, and it no doubt is how Satan can lock his grip on many, so Father Moore was right in my assessment to say to stop the medication. I also fully believe the account that the demon was causing her to speak Aramaic without her previous knowledge of the language - and demons have done things far more astounding than that. And the tid bit about the second set of vocal cords (something I didn't know) would also be a very good explanation of how people who are demonically possessed are able to distort their voice so much.

Overall, with only a few differences in opinion and objections, I found the movie's portrayal fairly realistic and would be a good movie to see if one wanted to observe Satan's methods more closely.

Let us all keep in mind the message that stood out at the end of the film though: the verse on Anneliese Michel's grave stone (which you can actually see over in Europe) - "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

Have you seen the film? If so what are your thoughts on it?


~Josh
 
Josh
I saw the movie the first day it came out and I can say that it was a well made movie and the way she was portraid was also accurate...I have been involved in a few exorcisms and I can tell you with a certainty, that some of what was shown in the movie, really does happen....
 
jgredline said:
Josh
I saw the movie the first day it came out and I can say that it was a well made movie and the way she was portraid was also accurate...I have been involved in a few exorcisms and I can tell you with a certainty, that some of what was shown in the movie, really does happen....

I've heard from my own Grandparents that they too have seen exorcisms preformed. I do not doubt demonic posession in the least, infact I even attribute it to the manifestations of real power in other religions, because Satan has power of his own and lying wonders with which he decieves people by preforming miracles (like the Anti-Christ will in the future).

I'm currently reading a book called Spiritual Warfare by Bob Larson and it is really good and an in depth look at the actual culture that has developed around cults such as Satanism and investigated methods of entrapment such as playing Dungeouns & Dragon, listening to music like Highway to Hell by AC/DC, becoming involved in drugs, joining Gothic social groups, etc. I realize that Bob Larson is a controversial figure (being an exorcist) in himself and has done some questionable things but as far as his teachings go in his meaty 600 page book I'm seeing waves of revelation and confirmation of many of my suspicions as to how Satan works. Mr. Larson is fulfilling his goal for me personally which he stated in his introduction of contermanding the ignorance Paul talked of when he said the Corinthians were "ignorant of Satan's devices". It is a very enlightening book and I swear the first six pages almost sounded like I was reading an extra chapter from Frank Peretti's This Present Darkness.

Have you ever heard of Frank Peretti Javier or read any of his books? If not I strongly urge you to read This Present Darkness. It far exceeds even C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters.

~Josh
 
cybershark5886 said:
I've heard from my own Grandparents that they too have seen exorcisms preformed. I do not doubt demonic posession in the least, infact I even attribute it to the manifestations of real power in other religions, because Satan has power of his own and lying wonders with which he decieves people by preforming miracles (like the Anti-Christ will in the future).

I'm currently reading a book called Spiritual Warfare by Bob Larson and it is really good and an in depth look at the actual culture that has developed around cults such as Satanism and investigated methods of entrapment such as playing Dungeouns & Dragon, listening to music like Highway to Hell by AC/DC, becoming involved in drugs, joining Gothic social groups, etc. I realize that Bob Larson is a controversial figure (being an exorcist) in himself and has done some questionable things but as far as his teachings go in his meaty 600 page book I'm seeing waves of revelation and confirmation of many of my suspicions as to how Satan works. Mr. Larson is fulfilling his goal for me personally which he stated in his introduction of contermanding the ignorance Paul talked of when he said the Corinthians were "ignorant of Satan's devices". It is a very enlightening book and I swear the first six pages almost sounded like I was reading an extra chapter from Frank Peretti's This Present Darkness.

Have you ever heard of Frank Peretti Javier or read any of his books? If not I strongly urge you to read This Present Darkness. It far exceeds even C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters.

~Josh

Josh
Two things. Stay away from Bob Larson...He is a false teacher who duped people...I have actually paid to see him perform his fake exorcisms live :o ...

Frank Peretti is excellent. I have read everything he has ever put out...Randy Alcorn is also excellent...Of Course CS Lewis and the screw tape letters are a masterpiece.....

About two weeks ago I started to write about the last one I did and as soon as I am done I will post it....All I can say is all glory to God, for he is king of all......
 
Javier, I used emphasis & bolding below to make it easier to read and to highlight my main ideas so you can follow what I'm saying. This isn't the equivalent of raising my voice so don't take it that way. Its easier when you talk in person because voice inflection replaces the underlines and bold marks. :)

Two things. Stay away from Bob Larson...He is a false teacher who duped people...I have actually paid to see him perform his fake exorcisms live ...

I was immediately concerned with doing a background check on the man once I got the book and I saw some of the things said about him and I even saw an anti-Larson webpage and it did more of an ad hominem attack (and did a good job of proving he had mishandled funds, etc.) but when it got to refuting his theology it was shallow and rather ignorant on the front of them saying that a Christian can't actually open themselves up to demonic forces and be decieved (which I believe they can - though posession of a Christian is questionable - though perhaps possible), and they also made the rediculous claim that all exorcisms are unfounded because Christ conquered all the principalities of darkness and made them a spectacle the moment he ressurected, and therefore that there is no longer any enemy to battle.

At any rate I am very cautious in everything I read in the book but I find it paralleling everything I've ever heard about demon possession and from the written record of his experiences I cannot deny that he has atleast cast out real demons regardless if he also fakes some things. When I did research on him I noticed that he was a little given over to sensationalism and thus for one person he could rightly judge that they were truely demon possessed and cast the demon out (and he even admits to failed exorcisms - like the Emily Rose case) and the next person they could just be having a problem with drugs and he could misread if they are really poseessed and when he goes to cast it out nothing happens because he's trying to cast out brain damage due to harful accumulations of chemicals in the brain, rather than a real demon. I think that is his blunder. However I viewed his theology closer and he admits things that an otherwise sensationalist-only exorcist would overlook - that not all things are due to demons: he admits and discusses the role of the flesh (though even though he knows this he still obviously struggles with seeing the difference between some cases - as cited above - which admittedly could be hard in this perverse culture) and that not all problems are to be automatically diagnosed as demon posession. He notes the natural inclination of man toward sin and evil. He also makes interesting notes on how demons don't simply come out because you command them to at once (he used the example of how Jesus' dialogue with the demons [legion] began after Jesus commanded them to come out - thus he uses this as his basis for the reality of excorcisms that can take day or months of battling [like Emily Rose] and possibly even fail after repeated attempts). Also he warned about Dungeons & Dragons (which I almost got into as a kid - and my Dad sat me down and explained away my ignorance of the game) in the same way my Dad did (which was wise advice) and he also warned againt the evil influence of demonic music like Slayer and AC/DC (which my Mom had even told me a long time ago due to her teenage rebellious experience of getting involved with those things).

Also when he describes his cases of seeing the demon posessed it shows real hallmarks of demon posession as modeled on the Bible and even has shown some revelation into ancient religions: Once in Singapore as a young Christian he watched a pagan ritual in which the men stuck hundreds of needles in their flesh to mutilate themsevles (kinda like the Prophets of Baal) and induce pain to please their "gods" (demons portraying their gods) and one of the men in the middle of the ritual fell over and convulsed and his eyes bulged out unnaturally and he frothed at the mouth. Bob asked a nearby participant what was happening and they respond that that is always how their Goddess replies to their ritual, "She has entered him". Bob said that later when he reflected on it it then made sense why the Hindu gods' eyes always bulged out in all the historical depictions of them: it was a sign of demon possession in humans, and it became a deified experience and portayal of the gods in that religion. Larson's account showed that real demon possession could be the cause of foreign religions (which makes alot of sense if you think about it - even the NT says that when people sacrificed to idols they infact were sacrificing to demons).

That story sure seemed authentic to me, and seems entirely believable. I have no doubt you saw him preform a fake exorcism, however that does not mean that he has never preformed an authentic one. I would actually be interested if you bought the book and read over it and discussed it with me as it is intensely interesting.

I actually came to the (obvious - I don't know why I didn't think of it before) conclusion while reading Bob Larson's book that Frank Peretti must have actually done real research on the occult and excorcisms (encounters with demons) to write his book This Present Darkness, because accounts like Larson gives in his book lays the ground work and backdrop against which This Present Darkness lies and it makes Peretti's fiction book seem all the more real and founded on the truth.

That's all I can say. But I am not stupid or gullible to the point of not checking proper doctrine and winnowing out the good from the bad. Thus far I haven't discerned any blatant false teachings and I'm only finding truth in the book. I dunno, I guess its just like how ministers like Jimmy Swaggart who got themselves into trouble in their ministry because of scandalous affairs have seemed to bounce back and corrected their ways (Swaggart preaches the doctrine of the cross and blood as fundamental as I've ever heard it), even though Swaggart has earned distrust from his past failures. That however does not mean they cannot change or he correct in any of their teachings and redeem themselves.

What are your thoughts on this?

Frank Peretti is excellent. I have read everything he has ever put out...

I've read almost all of his books. I've read all the Childrens books and I've read both Darkness books, the Oath, the Prophet, and part of the Visitation. Did you know that Perretti has two movies out: The Hangman's Curse and The Visitation? I have them both and they are awesome, and he stars in his own movie - in the Hangman's Curse! And he is planning to make a motion picture of This Present Darkness!!! That will be awesome! I'm quite excited as you can tell. :)

God Bless,

~Josh
 
cybershark5886 said:
I was immediately concerned with doing a background check on the man once I got the book and I saw some of the things said about him and I even saw an anti-Larson webpage and it did more of an ad hominem attack (and did a good job of proving he had mishandled funds, etc.) but when it got to refuting his theology it was shallow and rather ignorant on the front of them saying that a Christian can't actually open themselves up to demonic forces and be decieved (which I believe they can - though posession of a Christian is questionable - though perhaps possible), and they also made the rediculous claim that all exorcisms are unfounded because Christ conquered all the principalities of darkness and made them a spectacle the moment he ressurected, and therefore that there is no longer any enemy to battle.

Well, I don't know about any web sites that attack him...I am talking about his theology...The fact that he rips of people and charges money for exorcisms is already bad theology...I don't recall Jesus or any Apostle ever charging for one....The fact that he teaches Christians can be demon possessed is reason to run from him......


cybershark5886 said:
At any rate I am very cautious in everything I read in the book but I find it paralleling everything I've ever heard about demon possession and from the written record of his experiences I cannot deny that he has atleast cast out real demons regardless if he also fakes some things. When I did research on him I noticed that he was a little given over to sensationalism and thus for one person he could rightly judge that they were truely demon possessed and cast the demon out (and he even admits to failed exorcisms - like the Emily Rose case) and the next person they could just be having a problem with drugs and he could misread if they are really poseessed and when he goes to cast it out nothing happens because he's trying to cast out brain damage due to harful accumulations of chemicals in the brain, rather than a real demon. I think that is his blunder. However I viewed his theology closer and he admits things that an otherwise sensationalist-only exorcist would overlook - that not all things are due to demons: he admits and discusses the role of the flesh (though even though he knows this he still obviously struggles with seeing the difference between some cases - as cited above - which admittedly could be hard in this perverse culture) and that not all problems are to be automatically diagnosed as demon posession. He notes the natural inclination of man toward sin and evil. He also makes interesting notes on how demons don't simply come out because you command them to at once (he used the example of how Jesus' dialogue with the demons [legion] began after Jesus commanded them to come out - thus he uses this as his basis for the reality of excorcisms that can take day or months of battling [like Emily Rose] and possibly even fail after repeated attempts). Also he warned about Dungeons & Dragons (which I almost got into as a kid - and my Dad sat me down and explained away my ignorance of the game) in the same way my Dad did (which was wise advice) and he also warned againt the evil influence of demonic music like Slayer and AC/DC (which my Mom had even told me a long time ago due to her teenage rebellious experience of getting involved with those things).
No dought he has exorcised some real demons..and I agree that once people give the devil a foothold and start getting into the occult and witchcraft etc, one can become demon possessed.....But again, a Christian can certainly become oppressed but not possessed...
cybershark5886 said:
Also when he describes his cases of seeing the demon posessed it shows real hallmarks of demon posession as modeled on the Bible and even has shown some revelation into ancient religions: Once in Singapore as a young Christian he watched a pagan ritual in which the men stuck hundreds of needles in their flesh to mutilate themsevles (kinda like the Prophets of Baal) and induce pain to please their "gods" (demons portraying their gods) and one of the men in the middle of the ritual fell over and convulsed and his eyes bulged out unnaturally and he frothed at the mouth. Bob asked a nearby participant what was happening and they respond that that is always how their Goddess replies to their ritual, "She has entered him". Bob said that later when he reflected on it it then made sense why the Hindu gods' eyes always bulged out in all the historical depictions of them: it was a sign of demon possession in humans, and it became a deified experience and portayal of the gods in that religion. Larson's account showed that real demon possession could be the cause of foreign religions (which makes alot of sense if you think about it - even the NT says that when people sacrificed to idols they infact were sacrificing to demons).

That story sure seemed authentic to me, and seems entirely believable. I have no doubt you saw him preform a fake exorcism, however that does not mean that he has never preformed an authentic one. I would actually be interested if you bought the book and read over it and discussed it with me as it is intensely interesting.

I actually came to the (obvious - I don't know why I didn't think of it before) conclusion while reading Bob Larson's book that Frank Peretti must have actually done real research on the occult and excorcisms (encounters with demons) to write his book This Present Darkness, because accounts like Larson gives in his book lays the ground work and backdrop against which This Present Darkness lies and it makes Peretti's fiction book seem all the more real and founded on the truth.

That's all I can say. But I am not stupid or gullible to the point of not checking proper doctrine and winnowing out the good from the bad. Thus far I haven't discerned any blatant false teachings and I'm only finding truth in the book. I dunno, I guess its just like how ministers like Jimmy Swaggart who got themselves into trouble in their ministry because of scandalous affairs have seemed to bounce back and corrected their ways (Swaggart preaches the doctrine of the cross and blood as fundamental as I've ever heard it), even though Swaggart has earned distrust from his past failures. That however does not mean they cannot change or he correct in any of their teachings and redeem themselves.

What are your thoughts on this?

I have no dought that some of his ecounters are real...None at all...But he has been caught allot exorcising the same demons from the same people in different cities...

As far as Frank Peritti goes, I have his movies as well...I have said for years that ''his present darkness'' would make a great movie if done right..

As far as swaggart goes, I do believe the man to have repented and indeed is born again...Perhaps for the first time in his life...While I do not follow him, every now and again I will watch him on tv...
 
reply

Yes, Javier, It is impossible for a Christian to have a demon in his spirit. A mature believer would have to deny Christ willfully and with deliberate forethought before he could ever allow a demon to gain access into his spirit, because if He's a Christian, the Holy Spirit, not a demon, indwells his spirit. If a mature Christian did did deny Christ, he would cease to be a Christian, for the Word Christian means Christ-like. It means that the life and nature of God dwells in one's spirit ( 2 Cor. 5:17).

Here is the problem with Larson: He effectively is saying that a Christian can have an evil spirit in his spirit, but doesn't divide man correctly. He don't recognize that is a spirit; he has a soul; and he lives in a body. And he doesn't make it clear that a demon can be affecting a person's soul or body, but not be in his spirit.


May God bless, Golfjack
 
Jack
I agree..He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world...

Now a Christian living in sin can open him self up to demonic oppression...E.G. Viewing porn, playing with wigi boards, religiously following his /her horoscope, but there is no way that a Christian who is born again will ever be demon possessed...In order for this to happen, the Christian would need to loose his salvation...Since I do not believe this could happen, there is no way for this person to be possessed..Now If a Christian where to get demon possessed then this person was never saved to begin with....

I have seen this happen twice...1 fella his name is Ray who was involved in the occult and would attend church regularly was one such person who was demon possessed..Everybody thought it was not possible, even though the demon fully manifested at a mens conferance,... but for a few of us who knew...I have the gift of discerning of evil spirits...''I knew what it was''...Anyway a week later he was set free and when he became born again, he confessed that he had simply been playing church....It was a front for his folks...He was no longer a homosexual, he no longer was addicted to porn, he left the occult, infact I ended up hiring him and discipled him for two years...This young man at age 20 could not read, so I taught him to read using the NLT bible...This was some 8 years ago and he is now getting ready to graduate from college....praise God

I writing up a true account of the last one that I was a part of about 2 1/2 years ago...It is an amazing testimony of this fellow named shawn...
As soon as I am done writing it up, I will post it..
 
Well, I don't know about any web sites that attack him...I am talking about his theology...The fact that he rips of people and charges money for exorcisms is already bad theology...I don't recall Jesus or any Apostle ever charging for one....The fact that he teaches Christians can be demon possessed is reason to run from him......

I agree here. Even Paul said that he worked and made his own money when he was among the Thessalonians so as to not even give the impression of him peddling the Gospel for money. I do think that is a bad motive, and that he may feel compelled to "put on a show" for it. I however will continue to read his book as an information source, and mine it, as if I were reading a history book or what not. Some elements of history are rooted in fact, others are angled views. I hold to the theology of, "Test every thing, hold on to the good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21) just as I have when reading Gnostic books to see what view my enemy has so I can refute it and as I have also done for such liberal "Christians" like the Episcopal John Shelby Spong. I can read a book and be sceptical of it through it every page, and so I will in no wise lessen my awares here, even though I do find much of his information from his experiences credible. But I will grant you that he has a bad application of Theology if he extorts money from people.

No dought he has exorcised some real demons..and I agree that once people give the devil a foothold and start getting into the occult and witchcraft etc, one can become demon possessed.....But again, a Christian can certainly become oppressed but not possessed...

Once again I agree. The Parable of the swept house illustates the point:

"When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, "I will return to the house I left." When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation." (Matthew 12:43-45)

The key is that when the demon came back the house was unoccupied, the person (the house) was not filled with the Holy Spirit, thus they cleaned up their life a bit but made no inner commitment to God and left it empty only to be filled again by more malevolent forces. We have the Spirit dwelling in us and so at the same time we cannot have a demon in us, though certainly they could play games with us. That is one area where the Emily Rose movie also got me - I was sceptical whether God would really let that happen to someone. By studying her real life a little bit more she may have actually been scitzophrinic, but the demon attacks might have been real. So either she wasn't really "possessed" or she wasn't really a Christian. Who knows? Nonetheless I agree with your assessment.

I have no dought that some of his ecounters are real...None at all...But he has been caught allot exorcising the same demons from the same people in different cities...

Interesting. I think I had heard something like that on one of those sites. Maybe the demon just follows him around after he casts him out just to antagonize Bob? A thorn in the flesh? j/k :tongue

As far as Frank Peritti goes, I have his movies as well...I have said for years that ''his present darkness'' would make a great movie if done right..

My Dad said that Frank Peretti has wanted to make a movie of This Present Darkness ever since the 80s, but lacked the special effects in the movie industry. But now in today's world of special effects...oh yeah, it has potential.

As far as swaggart goes, I do believe the man to have repented and indeed is born again...Perhaps for the first time in his life...While I do not follow him, every now and again I will watch him on tv...

Same here. I caught him for the first time a year or so ago on early TV at 5:30 in the morning and I watched him for about 2 weeks straight, to get enough of a feel for him. I haven't watched much of him since (though I did see a rerun of a sermon when he was really young) though I subsequently looked up his history to find out more about him (which is how I found out about his troubled history). But like I said, I got the impression that he cleaned his act up and almost everything he said he quoted it straight from the Bible because the Bible never left his hand the whole air time.

God Bless,

~Josh
 
jgredline said:
Now a Christian living in sin can open him self up to demonic oppression...E.G. Viewing porn, playing with wigi boards, religiously following his /her horoscope, but there is no way that a Christian who is born again will ever be demon possessed...

Maybe this is just me. But it seems to me that demons are kind of free to keep coming back to try to oppress. Anyway to stop this? Or is this just something we face each day. Javier, this brings to mind the importance of wearing the armor of God each day. That is what the armor is for isn't it?

It's just that I notice oppression when I don't remember my armor... or for some reason take it off in the middle of the day :-?
 
Veritas said:
Maybe this is just me. But it seems to me that demons are kind of free to keep coming back to try to oppress. Anyway to stop this? Or is this just something we face each day. Javier, this brings to mind the importance of wearing the armor of God each day. That is what the armor is for isn't it?

It's just that I notice oppression when I don't remember my armor... or for some reason take it off in the middle of the day :-?

Craig
The devil and his demons ''never'' rest...I need to clarify my statement a little bit...I did not mean to imply that if a Christian is being oppressed that this Christian is in sin...This is not true and I opologize for not being more clear...The fact and the truth of the matter is that is only a part of the reason for a Christian to be oppressed...Another reason is when one is furthering Gods kingdom...Missionaries are ofte the most oppressed because they are preaching the Gospel....So demon oppression is a life long battle with the believer....Craig..the Armor is indeed for that reason and the Greek is emphatic in that we should were it daily...Thanks for the reminder...
 

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