• CFN has a new look and a new theme

    "I bore you on eagle's wings, and brought you to Myself" (Exodus 19:4)

    More new themes will be coming in the future!

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join For His Glory for a discussion on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/

  • CFN welcomes new contributing members!

    Please welcome Roberto and Julia to our family

    Blessings in Christ, and hope you stay awhile!

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • Read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

[_ Old Earth _] The Eyes Have it - Creation is Reality

John

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
6,134
Reaction score
1
The Eyes Have it - Creation is Reality
Charles Darwin expressed confidence that natural selection could explain the development of the eye1, but how does this confidence stand up to the light of reason? Today, we are in the curious intellectual situation of allowing only naturalistic explanations in public schools. This is done in spite of the fact that the alternative (creation or intelligent design) more adequately explains the observations. It would take a miraculous number of design changes to transform a light sensitive patch into an eyeball. Furthermore, each change would have to be coded onto the DNA of the “new†creature in order for the change to pass to the next generation. It has never been explained how this could have happened. Each new feature would need to be independently useful or natural selection would not have allowed the new creature to live.

• An eyeball with no retina would be a tumor, not an improvement to be passed on to the next generation.
• An eyeball without a focusing lens would be worthless except as a light detector.
• An eyeball without a functioning optic nerve to carry the signal to the brain would be worthless.
• An eyeball without the perfect balance of fluid pressure would explode or implode.
• An eyeball without a brain designed to interpret the signals would be sightless.
• There are over 100,000 different proteins in our body. The only one with a molecular structure to make it perfectly transparent to light is used to construct the lens of our eye.

It is beyond credibility that chance mutations could have produced any of these changes, let alone all of them at once. Any one of these changes would result in a worthless tumor. All are needed simultaneously for sight to result.
Yet, the chance development of this “hardware†for the eye pales in comparison to the impossibility of the “software†development. The brain must be wired to both accept and understand the signal coming to it from the eyeball. An analogy would be the multi-pixel image from a digital camera. Each part of the image is wired to a specific spot in the receptor screen of the camera to reproduce an image of what the camera is viewing. As the “first eye†was developing, how could the brain have known what the randomly wired image received from the pixels of the optic nerve represented? Before there was sight, the image would be wired like the white snowy image of an out of tune television screen. It can be statistically proven that randomly changing the location of a few of the millions of available pixels would never produce a clear image and sight could never develop in this way.2
In Darwin’s time, the complex design of the eyeball was forceful evidence in favor of creation. Our more advanced knowledge of the intricate design of the eye provides even stronger evidence for its creation.
The complexity of the eye still argues for the reality of its instantaneous formation by an incredibly intelligent designer. There is neither a fossil record showing that the eye evolved nor any testable observations to explain how it could possibly have happened. The fanciful story that a light receptive patch turned into the complex eyeball is nothing but the dogmatic faith of a religious belief system. Why do we allow textbook selection which leaves out both the problems with evolution and the evidence for intelligent design? This is indoctrination, not education.

1. Charles Darwin, The Origin of the Species, republished by J.M. Dent & Sons Ltd., London, 1971, p. 167.
2. Stoltzmann, David, The Specified Complexity of Retinal Imagery, Creation Research Society Quarterly,
6/06.
 
johnmuise said:
The Eyes Have it - Creation is Reality

• An eyeball without a focusing lens would be worthless except as a light detector.
I can see how that would be helpful
 
proponent said:
johnmuise said:
The Eyes Have it - Creation is Reality

• An eyeball without a focusing lens would be worthless except as a light detector.
I can see how that would be helpful

On top of that, imagine how helpful it would be if the light detector was slowly dished inward through time! You'd increasingly be able to sense direction of light with more accuracy! ;-)

Then, that concave array of light sensors begins to round off into a near circle... eventually leaving a small hole, since it's far more useful at sensing direction! This has also been witnessed in the animal kingdom!

Then, imagine... if there was a protective transparent layer in front of the sensors to prevent damage! That would make the creature survive even more, since it can sense direction of movement AND prevent damage to those sensors!

Then imagine... That transparent layer is shaped a bit to define the direction better! Wow, one could almost begin to call it an image! The layer shapes more and more, making that light more defined. One could almost call it an image.

Oh wait, it IS an image. Surprise! We have a complex eye now.
 
Jayls5 said:
proponent said:
johnmuise said:
The Eyes Have it - Creation is Reality

• An eyeball without a focusing lens would be worthless except as a light detector.
I can see how that would be helpful

On top of that, imagine how helpful it would be if the light detector was slowly dished inward through time! You'd increasingly be able to sense direction of light with more accuracy! ;-)

Then, that concave array of light sensors begins to round off into a near circle... eventually leaving a small hole, since it's far more useful at sensing direction! This has also been witnessed in the animal kingdom!

Then, imagine... if there was a protective transparent layer in front of the sensors to prevent damage! That would make the creature survive even more, since it can sense direction of movement AND prevent damage to those sensors!

Then imagine... That transparent layer is shaped a bit to define the direction better! Wow, one could almost begin to call it an image! The layer shapes more and more, making that light more defined. One could almost call it an image.

Oh wait, it IS an image. Surprise! We have a complex eye now.
I SEE WHAT U DID THAR!!!!
 
Didn't we already go through all of this before?
 
Yes, and the simulations worked out by Nilsson have demonstrated that eyes can (and do) easily evolve. And all the transitional forms in his simulation actually exist in the real world.

300px-Stages_in_the_evolution_of_the_eye.png
 
johnmuise said:
The Eyes Have it - Creation is Reality
Charles Darwin expressed confidence that natural selection could explain the development of the eye1, but how does this confidence stand up to the light of reason? Today, we are in the curious intellectual situation of allowing only naturalistic explanations in public schools. This is done in spite of the fact that the alternative (creation or intelligent design) more adequately explains the observations. It would take a miraculous number of design changes to transform a light sensitive patch into an eyeball. Furthermore, each change would have to be coded onto the DNA of the “new†creature in order for the change to pass to the next generation. It has never been explained how this could have happened. Each new feature would need to be independently useful or natural selection would not have allowed the new creature to live.

• An eyeball with no retina would be a tumor, not an improvement to be passed on to the next generation.
• An eyeball without a focusing lens would be worthless except as a light detector.
• An eyeball without a functioning optic nerve to carry the signal to the brain would be worthless.
• An eyeball without the perfect balance of fluid pressure would explode or implode.
• An eyeball without a brain designed to interpret the signals would be sightless.
• There are over 100,000 different proteins in our body. The only one with a molecular structure to make it perfectly transparent to light is used to construct the lens of our eye.

It is beyond credibility that chance mutations could have produced any of these changes, let alone all of them at once. Any one of these changes would result in a worthless tumor. All are needed simultaneously for sight to result.

It is called a "saltation" a "miracle goes here" moment when engaged in "story telling for atheist darwinism". Simply put for the atheist darwinist "when your story indicates you NEED a miracle then that is precisly when you GET one -- after all we are here aren't we?".

This is the "there is no god so what other choice do we have " blind alley of atheist darwinists.

Also you did not add the self correct and self-maintaininig mechanisms of fluid for the eye that benefits but does not cloud vision. The relflex for blinking. The adjustments between eye muscles, eye-lids and eye shape that are needed for the various functions of the eye including the need to have the eye closed while sleeping and the need to blind without thinking about it each time though still having the ability to override the blinking reflex with purposeful conscious reactions to pain or danger. The eyelash for sweeping away dust and finally the eye appearance that is beneficially in person to person first contact.

Yet, the chance development of this “hardware†for the eye pales in comparison to the impossibility of the “software†development.

True - we still do not have "software" that "KNOWS" that a person is standing or sitting, jumping or sleeping -- it does not know what it is seeing it does not even know that it is thinking or that will someday be upgraded or that it will be deleted tomorrow or ...

Good points all -

Bob
 
The Barbarian said:
Yes, and the simulations worked out by Nilsson have demonstrated that eyes can (and do) easily evolve.

No -- they do not. Worms do not have eyes - "still". We see billions of years of "stasis" where animals supposedly a billion years old -- show no change at all to their modern forms.

The wild and empty claims that eyes can evolve are what you would expect from those who can not even being to assemble a single living cell EVEN when one is staring them in the face.

Yet this is the believist religionist rabbit trails that junk sciences like atheist darwinism "need" to follow to "keep telling their stories".

As Colin Patterson said of STORIES about how "one thing comes from another STORIES easy enough to tell" his conclusion about those stories? "they are NOT science".

You would think that the devotees to atheist darwinism would stop now and then to show actual interest in actual science.

Bob
 
No -- they do not. Worms do not have eyes

Of course they do. Some of them are fairly complex. Most of your objections to science, Bob, are based in the fact that you don't know very much.

platynereis.jpg

Eyes of a polychaete annelid (same phylum as our common earthworm)

"still". We see billions of years of "stasis" where animals supposedly a billion years old -- show no change at all to their modern forms.

Sounds interesting. Name some of them, Bob. I've never seen one of those.

The wild and empty claims that eyes can evolve are what you would expect from those who can not even being to assemble a single living cell EVEN when one is staring them in the face.

"The wild and empty claim that hurricanes can form are what you would expect from those who cannot even being to assemble a single working hurricane..."

I think I see a logical flaw in your argument, Bob... :lol:
 
Back
Top