THE FIRST LIE

[enlightened]

By definition, a liar is one who knows the truth, but deliberately changes it into a lie; therefore, in order to lie, one must know thte truth. By JOHN 8:44 it is a fact that the devil (Satan, serpent, Lucifer, etc) told the first lie; and by II COR 11:3 (also GEN 3:13 ), it is a fact that the devil deceived (beguiled) Eve, even with subtlety, which means he was able to convince her to believe something that was not true, and that she had no clue she was believing a lie; therefore, it is clear that the devil not only knew the truth, but the first lie told was told to Eve, and she believed it. My questions, then, are what was that first lie he told and what was his subtlety which enable him to convince her that the lie was indeed the truth?

 

[enlightened]

Given that the 'Fall of Man' began with the deception of Eve, is it not most imperative to understand how sin began in order to understand the rest of the bible: for, if the events of GEN 3 had never happen, then there would be no reason for the Bible to exist today? Then be certain and convinced of the answers you have for the questions posed, else you may well be believing a lie.

 

[Free]

By definition, a liar is one who knows the truth, but deliberately changes it into a lie; therefore, in order to lie, one must know thte truth. By JOHN 8:44 it is a fact that the devil (Satan, serpent, Lucifer, etc) told the first lie; and by II COR 11:3 (also GEN 3:13 ), it is a fact that the devil deceived (beguiled) Eve, even with subtlety, which means he was able to convince her to believe something that was not true, and that she had no clue she was believing a lie; therefore, it is clear that the devil not only knew the truth, but the first lie told was told to Eve, and she believed it. My questions, then, are what was that first lie he told and what was his subtlety which enable him to convince her that the lie was indeed the truth?

Gen 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
Gen 3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (ESV)

 

[Guest]

Lucifer was the most glorified angel in Heaven before he sinned and fell from Heaven. Satan means 'resister' or 'opposer'. The word 'devil' means 'slanderer' and thus refers to someone who tells malicious lies about others. By rebelling, he made himself Satan/resister/opposer. Only after he willingly took a course of opposition and resistance to God was he called Satan. He, also being called 'Devil' is due to him slandering God's name..of which he told the first recorded 'LIE' in the bible at Genesis 3:4.

 

[Goinheix]

I am not sure that it was the first lie. We don't know exactly how Lucifer convinced other angels to rebel against God. Was it by mean of lies? We don't know. And I have my reserves considering those words of Satan to Eve as lies. In fact, Adam and Eve lived long lives after eating the figue. Adan and Eve did not die right after eating but many centuries after. And the first consequence of eating from the figue tree was to have their eyes opened and knowing the difference between good and evil; exactly what Satan was saying.

 

[John 8:32]

I am not sure that it was the first lie. We don't know exactly how Lucifer convinced other angels to rebel against God. Was it by mean of lies? We don't know. And I have my reserves considering those words of Satan to Eve as lies. In fact, Adam and Eve lived long lives after eating the figue. Adan and Eve did not die right after eating but many centuries after. And the first consequence of eating from the figue tree was to have their eyes opened and knowing the difference between good and evil; exactly what Satan was saying.

Let's go with the first recorded lie, since we have no way of knowing what lies Satan told previously...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Anyhoo, the first recorded lie...

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

God said they would die...

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

die:

H4191
מוּת
mûth
mooth
A primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively to kill: - X at all, X crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy (-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro [-mancer], X must needs, slay, X surely, X very suddenly, X in [no] wise.

Death, not life in another place, death. Satan (the whispering enchanter) then said...

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

You will be like God, you will have immortality (an immortal soul), you won't die. We do not have immortality, we have to put it on...

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

We are promised life, but it is the gift of God...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[gr8grace]

Satan lied before the Garden.

But as for the first recorded lie. It was in Gen 3:3. esha (eve) told the Serpent the first recorded lie. She told the Serpent that God said she couldn't "touch the fruit"...God never said that they couldn't "touch it."

Gen 3:3 Eve told the first recorded lie. After the serpents tricky(cunning) Question in Gen 3:1. Eve added to Gods word with a Lie,"neither shall you touch it"

 

[Free]

Satan lied before the Garden.

But as for the first recorded lie. It was in Gen 3:3. esha (eve) told the Serpent the first recorded lie. She told the Serpent that God said she couldn't "touch the fruit"...God never said that they couldn't "touch it."

Gen 3:3 Eve told the first recorded lie. After the serpents tricky(cunning) Question in Gen 3:1. Eve added to Gods word with a Lie,"neither shall you touch it"

Firstly, we don't know if God never said that to them. Secondly, touching the fruit would indicate a desire to eat it, or in the very least to invite temptation to eat it, and in order to eat it, it must be touched. So in the command to not eat of that fruit, it is implied that it should not be touched.

 

[gr8grace]

Satan lied before the Garden.

But as for the first recorded lie. It was in Gen 3:3. esha (eve) told the Serpent the first recorded lie. She told the Serpent that God said she couldn't "touch the fruit"...God never said that they couldn't "touch it."

Gen 3:3 Eve told the first recorded lie. After the serpents tricky(cunning) Question in Gen 3:1. Eve added to Gods word with a Lie,"neither shall you touch it"

Firstly, we don't know if God never said that to them. Secondly, touching the fruit would indicate a desire to eat it, or in the very least to invite temptation to eat it, and in order to eat it, it must be touched. So in the command to not eat of that fruit, it is implied that it should not be touched.

so if eve touched it that would have been the fall?

Just think about it a bit. eve said that if they ate it or touched it God said they will die. God did not say that, they had to EAT it for the fall. Eve Lied.

So did the Fall happen the moment eve touched it, like she told Satan?

 

[Free]

Satan lied before the Garden.

But as for the first recorded lie. It was in Gen 3:3. esha (eve) told the Serpent the first recorded lie. She told the Serpent that God said she couldn't "touch the fruit"...God never said that they couldn't "touch it."

Gen 3:3 Eve told the first recorded lie. After the serpents tricky(cunning) Question in Gen 3:1. Eve added to Gods word with a Lie,"neither shall you touch it"

Firstly, we don't know if God never said that to them. Secondly, touching the fruit would indicate a desire to eat it, or in the very least to invite temptation to eat it, and in order to eat it, it must be touched. So in the command to not eat of that fruit, it is implied that it should not be touched.

so if eve touched it that would have been the fall?

Just think about it a bit. eve said that if they ate it or touched it God said they will die. God did not say that, they had to EAT it for the fall. Eve Lied.

So did the Fall happen the moment eve touched it, like she told Satan?

Many sins begin in the heart with a desire for something that we cannot have. Did Jesus not say that looking at a woman lustfully was to commit adultery? Essentially that is when the Fall began--with the desire to eat that which was forbidden and "become like God." To touch the fruit was to desire it and as soon as Eve touched it, the temptation to eat it was too strong.

 

[gr8grace]

Satan lied before the Garden.

But as for the first recorded lie. It was in Gen 3:3. esha (eve) told the Serpent the first recorded lie. She told the Serpent that God said she couldn't "touch the fruit"...God never said that they couldn't "touch it."

Gen 3:3 Eve told the first recorded lie. After the serpents tricky(cunning) Question in Gen 3:1. Eve added to Gods word with a Lie,"neither shall you touch it"

Firstly, we don't know if God never said that to them. Secondly, touching the fruit would indicate a desire to eat it, or in the very least to invite temptation to eat it, and in order to eat it, it must be touched. So in the command to not eat of that fruit, it is implied that it should not be touched.

so if eve touched it that would have been the fall?

Just think about it a bit. eve said that if they ate it or touched it God said they will die. God did not say that, they had to EAT it for the fall. Eve Lied.

So did the Fall happen the moment eve touched it, like she told Satan?

Many sins begin in the heart with a desire for something that we cannot have. Did Jesus not say that looking at a woman lustfully was to commit adultery? Essentially that is when the Fall began--with the desire to eat that which was forbidden and "become like God." To touch the fruit was to desire it and as soon as Eve touched it, the temptation to eat it was too strong.

I agree Free.

BUT do you think if eve had a moment of clarity and did not eat the Fruit and put it down and walked away from eating it. God would have cursed her for touching it?

 

[Free]

so if eve touched it that would have been the fall?

Just think about it a bit. eve said that if they ate it or touched it God said they will die. God did not say that, they had to EAT it for the fall. Eve Lied.

So did the Fall happen the moment eve touched it, like she told Satan?

Many sins begin in the heart with a desire for something that we cannot have. Did Jesus not say that looking at a woman lustfully was to commit adultery? Essentially that is when the Fall began--with the desire to eat that which was forbidden and "become like God." To touch the fruit was to desire it and as soon as Eve touched it, the temptation to eat it was too strong.

I agree Free.

BUT do you think if eve had a moment of clarity and did not eat the Fruit and put it down and walked away from eating it. God would have cursed her for touching it?

That is an unanswerable question.

 

[gr8grace]

so if eve touched it that would have been the fall?

Just think about it a bit. eve said that if they ate it or touched it God said they will die. God did not say that, they had to EAT it for the fall. Eve Lied.

So did the Fall happen the moment eve touched it, like she told Satan?

Many sins begin in the heart with a desire for something that we cannot have. Did Jesus not say that looking at a woman lustfully was to commit adultery? Essentially that is when the Fall began--with the desire to eat that which was forbidden and "become like God." To touch the fruit was to desire it and as soon as Eve touched it, the temptation to eat it was too strong.

I agree Free.

BUT do you think if eve had a moment of clarity and did not eat the Fruit and put it down and walked away from eating it. God would have cursed her for touching it?

That is an unanswerable question.

I believe that it is very easy to answer. no way would have God cursed Her.

If touching it was death as Eve said, God would have had "touching" in His command, there is no Guessing or confusion to Eve or Adam from God it was plainly "eat" . Eve lied by adding "touching" to Gods Word.

If touching it caused the curse, Gods word would not have eating of the Fruit. It would have been to late because they had already touched it.

Num 4:15~~and when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. These things are the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Gen 2:17~~but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

God is very specific when it comes to life and death, Gen 2:17 God would have included "touching" if it would have caused death.

Eves rendition of Gen 2:17~~but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not touch nor eat, for in the day that you touch or eat of it you shall surely die.

 

[Free]

I agree Free.

BUT do you think if eve had a moment of clarity and did not eat the Fruit and put it down and walked away from eating it. God would have cursed her for touching it?

That is an unanswerable question.

I believe that it is very easy to answer. no way would have God cursed Her.

If touching it was death as Eve said, God would have had "touching" in His command, there is no Guessing or confusion to Eve or Adam from God it was plainly "eat" . Eve lied by adding "touching" to Gods Word.

If touching it caused the curse, Gods word would not have eating of the Fruit. It would have been to late because they had already touched it.

Num 4:15~~and when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. These things are the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Gen 2:17~~but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.â€

God is very specific when it comes to life and death, Gen 2:17 God would have included "touching" if it would have caused death.

Eves rendition of Gen 2:17~~but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not touch nor eat, for in the day that you touch or eat of it you shall surely die.

It is unanswerable because we don't know all of what God told Adam and Eve. We know that God said not to eat the fruit but it would be error to conclude that that is all God ever said to them regarding it.

 

[Goinheix]

We know that Satan is a lier. It doesent mean that everithing he say is a lie.
Just because Satan is a lier, it dont mean that he did lie to Eve.
He told eve that she will not die for eatinf the figue; and she did live long centuries before diening.
Satan didnt promess inmortality but the knowledge of good and evil, and that is what it happened.
Now, Adan and Eve were equal to God in knowing weel and evil.
I am not sure of Satan lieing to Eve.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

We know that Satan is a lier. It doesent mean that everithing he say is a lie.
Just because Satan is a lier, it dont mean that he did lie to Eve.
He told eve that she will not die for eatinf the figue; and she did live long centuries before diening.
Satan didnt promess inmortality but the knowledge of good and evil, and that is what it happened.
Now, Adan and Eve were equal to God in knowing weel and evil.
I am not sure of Satan lieing to Eve.

She died spiritually the moment she disobeyed God. Satan lied to her.

 

[childeye]

This is the way I see it, right or wrong.

We can see the first lie in Genesis 3:4, you shall not surely die. But this is a subtle lie for mankind did not instantly die. As God is not a liar, what God meant can be seen by looking at the word die in a leicon of the bible. I believe God is saying you will become murderers of the innocent. Having said that, also hidden in the lie is the implication that God is a liar and untrustworthy. Therein lies the motive, to sow distrust between God and man.

But why sow distrust? Satan's fall begins with a vanity. He is enamored with himself because of his great gifts and talents endowed by the Creator when he was created. But he has no way to be properly thankful since he has never experienced the other side of the spectrum knowing what it is like to be without those gifts and talents. And this becomes apparrant as he shows scorn for others lesser than himself rather than pity. He likes being admired and this brings forth a desire to be worshipped. Hence he desires to be like the Most High. Therefore he himself is deceived to begin with and that is why Jesus said, there is no truth in him. So despite his beauty, abilities and vast knowledge, he does not esteem God as God, therefore he is proud and the voice of pride in the creation. He is the beginning of vanity.

Now I am going to speculate a little here. Adam, unlike the angels was made from the earth and he did not consider in his heart or mind anything concerning good and evil. I am not saying he could do no good, for he did have a pure Love which also was his life breathed into him by his Maker. He simply could not imagine evil in his innocence. I believe that Satan saw Adam in the garden content in his lowly station under God, and in his innocence, void of any understanding of Satan's greatness nor Adam's own lowliness. Perhaps Satan was jealous because he was not content in his station even though it was much higher than Adam's. Pehaps he desired to be like God so much, that he conspired to make God look bad by corrupting the man made in God's image. Perhaps both.

At any rate, the energy of his spirit is division and distrust. What is important to see is that his lies are revealed in hypocrisy. For since he causes division, he plays both ends against the middle. So on one end he tempts, and on the other he accuses. So whenever we are tempted in our flesh, there is a false promise of fulfillment, and whenever we accuse or place blame we only condemn ourselves.

I have studied the foundations of his lie. Of course I believe it is the Holy Spirit that reveals. I believe the devil is the half of freewill that proposes disobedience to God as a viable choice in men's minds and hearts and in the guise of freedom. Hence with the proposal of this half of a freewill, he causes mankind to imagine that man chooses to obey or disobey according to his own independent existence. Therefore men do not see God as their goodness and their flesh as only vile without God's Spirit. Hence men do not esteem God as God. Also with this half of freewill he is able to both do his tempting in our flesh and his accusing in our minds and justify in our reasoning the cause of unforgiveness and blame.

There is a Love inside me. It is pure. Therefore I am not boasting, but only saying it is God. And because I have this Love, I do not desire to murder or steal or in any way do anyone any harm. Can this Love be taken away? If it was taken, would I even care?

 

[Goinheix]

We know that Satan is a lier. It doesent mean that everithing he say is a lie.
Just because Satan is a lier, it dont mean that he did lie to Eve.
He told eve that she will not die for eatinf the figue; and she did live long centuries before diening.
Satan didnt promess inmortality but the knowledge of good and evil, and that is what it happened.
Now, Adan and Eve were equal to God in knowing weel and evil.
I am not sure of Satan lieing to Eve.

She died spiritually the moment she disobeyed God. Satan lied to her.

Eve did not die fisically right away. In that sense Satan did not lied to Eve.
I repeat again: it is not that clear that Satan was lieing; as Satan was not lieing to Jesus when tempting him in the desert.

 

[childeye]

That is because his lies are subtle, he presents half truths which does decieve.

 

[Goinheix]

That is because his lies are subtle, he presents half truths whitch does decieve.

I agree on that.