- Jan 23, 2011
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Fake News of "The Israeli Occupation"
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The Gaza Conspiracy
- Thread starter Alfred Persson
- Start date
Milk-Drops
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Yes, there is. Lot of hate towards Israley citizens in both Gaza and the West Bank. It's not so simple however. Considering That the state of Israel has been contested in the modern sense due to the collapse of Soviet control and the splintering of the Arab league, and Western meddling has created this powder keg. Hamas and Hezbola feed propaghanda and Isrsel does want a 1 state solution. It's a complicated mess.
Milk-Drops
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Then you have to add in that the Camp David Accords was a treaty and agreement between Israel and Egyp about the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Jordan formerly controlled the West Bank, but it went under Israel's control and the Gaza Strip was formerly Egyptian Territory. The deal was to lead to autonomous states, but Israel has waffles on whether to honor the agreement or not. Usually the fighting starts back up when land disputes arive since Jeruselem is supposed to be nuetral territory and that has not always been honored.
- Jan 23, 2011
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How do you explain Hamas' rejection of the two state solution, in both word and deed. Israel left Gaza, international money flowed in, it could have become "Club Med", instead they used it all to wage war against Israel that had given them their own state. Gaza.
Milk-Drops
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As I mentioned. Its a complicated history due to how Gaza was formed without input from the people that lived there. Hamas is not the good guys and depending on who us leadership in Israel neither are they. You have multiple groups all trying to have control over the same land. Sometimes Israel leaves Gaza alone, sometimes they don't. It's not a black and white issue.
Peace between Islam and Jews is highly unlikely as it means rejecting Islamic teaching in the quran.
Try reading this analysis of Islamic antisemitism:-
www.meforum.org
Try reading this analysis of Islamic antisemitism:-
Islamic Antisemitism Drives the Arab-Israeli Conflict
An underestimated, unappreciated, and oft-denied driver of the Arab-Israeli conflict is Islamic religious antisemitism. How deeply entrenched is this religious bigotry, and can it prevent, or slow down, the nascent reconciliation between Israel and the
www.meforum.org
Just to really put a full stop to any fanciful dreams of middle Eastern peace.
" One of the leading clerics, Dr. Ali Daghi, Secretary-General of the International Muslim Scholars, wrote: "There is a consensus among Muslims, in the past and present, that if an Islamic land is occupied, then its inhabitants must declare jihad until it is liberated from the occupiers. "
From:-https://www.getreligion.org/getreligion/2016/8/12/israel-saudi-arabia-and-claims-that-once-land-is-muslim-that-land-is-always-muslim
Just to make it clear-
" top Islamic clerics, who took to social media to express their poison and hatred for Israel and Jews. Many reminded their listeners of fatwas (Islamic religious decrees) banning any form of "normalization" with Israel and Jews, who are referred to as "infidels and polytheists." The fatwas also forbid Muslims from giving up any part of "Muslim-owned" land to non-Muslims. "
From the same link.
How do you think peace negotiations will go, or last?
" One of the leading clerics, Dr. Ali Daghi, Secretary-General of the International Muslim Scholars, wrote: "There is a consensus among Muslims, in the past and present, that if an Islamic land is occupied, then its inhabitants must declare jihad until it is liberated from the occupiers. "
From:-https://www.getreligion.org/getreligion/2016/8/12/israel-saudi-arabia-and-claims-that-once-land-is-muslim-that-land-is-always-muslim
Just to make it clear-
" top Islamic clerics, who took to social media to express their poison and hatred for Israel and Jews. Many reminded their listeners of fatwas (Islamic religious decrees) banning any form of "normalization" with Israel and Jews, who are referred to as "infidels and polytheists." The fatwas also forbid Muslims from giving up any part of "Muslim-owned" land to non-Muslims. "
From the same link.
How do you think peace negotiations will go, or last?
Milk-Drops
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I am aware. What I am saying is that historical the situation is complicated. Considering that Jordan,Egypt,Lebanon, Saudiarabia, and Iraq were all part of the rise of Arab Nationalism that fought with the Ottomon Empire for control of the area and the creation of the state of Israel was contentious in the region post World War 2. Considering how the newly formed UN botched agreements with the region in 47. It was a situation of what to do with agreements and a large Mount of Displaced Jewish people. Almost 80 years later.and it's a mess.Peace between Islam and Jews is highly unlikely as it means rejecting Islamic teaching in the quran.
Try reading this analysis of Islamic antisemitism:-
Islamic Antisemitism Drives the Arab-Israeli Conflict
An underestimated, unappreciated, and oft-denied driver of the Arab-Israeli conflict is Islamic religious antisemitism. How deeply entrenched is this religious bigotry, and can it prevent, or slow down, the nascent reconciliation between Israel and the
Milk-Drops
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I apologize, I keep bringing up the ottomans, but that was the great war and they dudolved in 1922. The Arab national movement was already underway.
Milk-Drops
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Yep, and during ww2 the British were also promising the Arab nationalists the entire territory. Then hot potatoed it to the UN.
Milk-Drops
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Yes, I said that earlier in the thread.
- Jan 23, 2011
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- #14
How would you interpret this? Its consistent with Trump's depopulation of Gaza, and rebuilding it as an Israeli development, "Club Gaza". Evidently, Somaliland will become New Palestine for Gazans and West Bankers':
Somaliland does not rule out absorption of Gazan residents - KAN
US and Israeli officials reportedly reached out to officials of three East African governments to discuss the potential transfer of displaced Gazan Palestinians.
www.jpost.com
4 For Gaza shall be forsaken, And Ashkelon desolate; They shall drive out Ashdod at noonday, And Ekron shall be uprooted.
5 Woe to the inhabitants of the seacoast, The nation of the Cherethites! The word of the LORD is against you, O Canaan, land of the Philistines: "I will destroy you; So there shall be no inhabitant."
6 The seacoast shall be pastures, With shelters for shepherds and folds for flocks.
7 The coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; They shall feed their flocks there; In the houses of Ashkelon they shall lie down at evening. For the LORD their God will intervene for them, And return their captives.
(Zeph. 2:4-7 NKJ)
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Milk-Drops
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It doesn't matter if another country is willing to take refugees. The problem here is that it would be genocide, relocation is still genocide. The Gaza Strip is the home for over a million palastinians. It will not solve anything to move the people, because the people would just return to retake the land again.How would you interpret this? Its consistent with Trump's depopulation of Gaza, and rebuilding it as an Israeli development, "Club Gaza". Evidently, Somaliland will become New Palestine for Gazans and West Bankers':
Somaliland does not rule out absorption of Gazan residents - KAN
US and Israeli officials reportedly reached out to officials of three East African governments to discuss the potential transfer of displaced Gazan Palestinians.
4 For Gaza shall be forsaken, And Ashkelon desolate; They shall drive out Ashdod at noonday, And Ekron shall be uprooted.
5 Woe to the inhabitants of the seacoast, The nation of the Cherethites! The word of the LORD is against you, O Canaan, land of the Philistines: "I will destroy you; So there shall be no inhabitant."
6 The seacoast shall be pastures, With shelters for shepherds and folds for flocks.
7 The coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; They shall feed their flocks there; In the houses of Ashkelon they shall lie down at evening. For the LORD their God will intervene for them, And return their captives.
(Zeph. 2:4-7 NKJ)
- Jan 23, 2011
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- #16
The first requirement of "genocide" is "cide", killing. Relocation is not killing, therefore not "genoCIDE".
It will solve everything to do as all Middle Easten countries historically do, move the enemy of your people out when you move in.
They can continue hating Jews, Christians, unbelievers to their heart's content, in Somaliland. They would love it, have their "Death to America" celebrations in a wonderful land filled with like mind and spirit people.
Milk-Drops
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No, you should look up the definition of Genocide. It's the removal of an ethnic group. Considering the point if the current operation is to remove all the people of Gaza, it is genocide. It was debatable up until it was outright stated that the goal was to remove the people. It also doesn't help when there was another military bombing killing another 400 people.
Yeah, that's genocide. This is not a defense of the actions of past people.
Why exactly do the people have to move. Why is Israel's wishes more important then there wishes?
- Jan 23, 2011
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genocide, the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race. The term, derived from the Greek genos (“race,” “tribe,” or “nation”) and the Latin cide (“killing”), was coined by Raphael Lemkin, a Polish-born jurist who served as an adviser to the U.S. Department of War during World War II.-Encyclopedia Britanica.
This is why left and right cannot discuss disagreements, the left redefines words to suit their agenda. Truth is relative to the needs of the moment, not anything factual or real.
What is happening to Tesla excellent illustration. The left planned to outlaw fossil fueled cars, make electric cars like Tesla their only option. He was championed as the savior of the planet.
After he endorsed Trump, Trump Derangement Syndrome overwhelmed their rational thought.
Leftist domestic terrorism caused attacks on Musk and his cars, while Green New Deal senators sell their Teslas for gas guzzling cars. Facts didn't change, the agenda of the left changed.
When Israel defends itself it is genocide, leftist hero Che Guvera or Mao killing millions, its liberation.
I can't discuss ideas with people who change the meaning of words, calling men women, terrorism liberation, etc.
Darkness is not light, those who claim it is are in a dark demonic place where only the father of lies is heard.
More to the point, you evaded the Palestinian woman's argument completely, because it is light.
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Milk-Drops
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Yesh, the ethnic population of Gaza. The Palestinians who are muslim. So race, religion, and nationality.
I asked you why Israel or our government has the right to tha Gaza Strip? You don't want to answer that.
I also hold that Hamas wants to so genocide against Israel.
Considering I am not that person, we can continue.
No, it's because her.argument doesn't address the extremely complicated situation of Gaza and Israel.
Milk-Drops
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Essentially Nonie Arwish is talking about her experience in Gaza during the 50s and this lends credit to my position. My position is not that Israel is evil, but that Israel and the Palestinians within the region were mashed together and the situation that resulted in the creation of Israel was a huge mess. Th 50s predate the Gaza Strip by about 20 years. The British really messed this up because the British were promising the newly liberated Jews of Europe a home land and also promising the Arab league a country of there own in the same spot.
Israel came out the gate in war because 2 seperatee groups were promised the land and the UN had to step in a help sort it out, which was to stop the cival war in the newlformed country. Gaza and the West Bank were land agreements after the camp David accords. The whole mess has had a huge impact.because Israel was supposed to allow Gaza and The west Bank to be independent but Israel also wants the land
It has gone back and forth with hatred being manipulated by leaders. It's complicated because the British wanted to build and empire and lost control of it after ww2.
Israel came out the gate in war because 2 seperatee groups were promised the land and the UN had to step in a help sort it out, which was to stop the cival war in the newlformed country. Gaza and the West Bank were land agreements after the camp David accords. The whole mess has had a huge impact.because Israel was supposed to allow Gaza and The west Bank to be independent but Israel also wants the land
It has gone back and forth with hatred being manipulated by leaders. It's complicated because the British wanted to build and empire and lost control of it after ww2.
