[_ Old Earth _] The impact of life on another planet

[blunthitta4life]

How, if any would the discovery of life on a different planet impact your faith?

 

[LittleNipper]

How, if any would the discovery of life on a different planet impact your faith?

Human life would make me wonder how the Hebrews could be at the center of GOD's love. Also if Adam's sin infected the entire universe, it would make me wounder if GOD was fair...

 

[hopefulcynic]

Also it Adam's sin infected the entire universe, it would make me wounder if GOD was fair...

Do you not wonder about that already? According to Christian theology, Adam's sin infected all humans, even though those humans were not responsible for his sin. How is that doctrine any different from that of Adam's sin infecting intelligent life on other planets?

Like you correctly observe, those "aliens" were not responsible for Adam's actions, but then again, we humans are not at fault either. It seems to me that you are applying a double standard. Or maybe I am just misinterpreting what you said.

 

[LittleNipper]

Do you not wonder about that already? According to Christian theology, Adam's sin infected all humans, even though those humans were not responsible for his sin. How is that doctrine any different from that of Adam's sin infecting intelligent life on other planets?

Like you correctly observe, those "aliens" were not responsible for Adam's actions, but then again, we humans are not at fault either. It seems to me that you are applying a double standard. Or maybe I am just misinterpreting what you said.

GOD did not hold man accountable for what Lucifer did. Lucifer and the fallen angels were cast out of heaven with no means of salvation because they invented sin. The "life form" living on some other planet somewhere out in the universe would not have a clue about Adam-----any more then Adam seems to have had a clue of Lucifers desires & plans. All our ancestors would at some point as would the nature on this planet. But the Bible says that all of creation groans because of the FALL of man.

 

[Quath]

Adam sinning and bringing sin to all of his children contradicts the following passages:

Deuteronomy 24:16 - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."

Ezekiel 18:20 - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

But it is also basic Christian theology. So I think you have to decide whether God does punish people for crimes they are innocent of. If you decide he does, then you have concluded that God is unjust. If not, then you probably see the Bible as having errors (a rare belief among Christians).

 

[hopefulcynic]

GOD did not hold man accountable for what Lucifer did. Lucifer and the fallen angels were cast out of heaven with no means of salvation because they invented sin. The "life form" living on some other planet somewhere out in the universe would not have a clue about Adam-----any more then Adam seems to have had a clue of Lucifers desires & plans. All our ancestors would at some point as would the nature on this planet. But the Bible says that all of creation groans because of the FALL of man.

Earlier, you argued that if Adam's sin infected other life forms God would be unjust. I agree with you there. But here you are arguing that Adam's sin infecting other humans would be just. Apparently, you believe this because (supposedly) all humans know about Adam's sin.

How does this make it just? If my father committed a crime, and I knew about it, do I deserve to be punished for that crime simply because I knew about it? Conversely, if I am blissfully ignorant do I not deserve any punishment? That concept makes no sense.

Secondly, how can you assume that all humans know about Adam's sin? Many people in the world have probably not even heard about the Bible, let alone Adam.

 

[dancing queen]

Adam sinning and bringing sin to all of his children contradicts the following passages:

Deuteronomy 24:16 - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."

Ezekiel 18:20 - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

But it is also basic Christian theology. So I think you have to decide whether God does punish people for crimes they are innocent of. If you decide he does, then you have concluded that God is unjust. If not, then you probably see the Bible as having errors (a rare belief among Christians).

Adam sin, the fall, meant that now there is no way a human can live the perfect life (hence need for Christ). It is not his specific action we have inherited and are punished for, we are condemed for our own sin. Adam's sin led to the fall of mankind, he gained knowledge of good and evil, surely that is what we inherited and makes us unable to not sin.

 

[Charlie Hatchett]

Romans 3 deals specifically with this issue:

9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."[c]
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."[d]
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."[e]
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[f]
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."[g]
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[h]

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Footnotes:

1. Romans 3:4 Psalm 51:4
2. Romans 3:9 Or worse
3. Romans 3:12 Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Eccles. 7:20
4. Romans 3:13 Psalm 5:9
5. Romans 3:13 Psalm 140:3
6. Romans 3:14 Psalm 10:7
7. Romans 3:17 Isaiah 59:7,8
8. Romans 3:18 Psalm 36:1
9. Romans 3:25 Or as the one who would turn aside his wrath, taking away sin

 

[Quath]

Adam sin, the fall, meant that now there is no way a human can live the perfect life (hence need for Christ). It is not his specific action we have inherited and are punished for, we are condemed for our own sin. Adam's sin led to the fall of mankind, he gained knowledge of good and evil, surely that is what we inherited and makes us unable to not sin.

So it sounds like every human should be born in Eden and kicked out for his own sin, not for the sins of another.

If sin is inheriented, then God could just remove that gene from the DNA or whatever is needed. After all, if God created man without sin, then they could be born without sin as well.

 

[LittleNipper]

So it sounds like every human should be born in Eden and kicked out for his own sin, not for the sins of another.

If sin is inheriented, then God could just remove that gene from the DNA or whatever is needed. After all, if God created man without sin, then they could be born without sin as well.

We are born in sin with a sinful nature which Adam left to us as his legacy.

 

[Quath]

We are born in sin with a sinful nature which Adam left to us as his legacy.

Is this sinful nature part of DNA? If so, then how did Adam change the DNA that God designed? Or did God change our DNA to match Adam's sin?

If it is not in our DNA, then how is sin transmitted? It would seem that if it is like a disease, then God could easily keep it from spreading if he desired.

 

[Atonement]

Quath, your missing the point here man.. It has nothing to do with DNA. When Adam sinned creation itself began to ware down. This is why God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden so they would not eat the tree of life and live in that state. Since the fall of man everything wares down. Even this world and the universe around us. There is a season for everything under the sun. But the good news is, God will one day restore this earth back to it's original sinless state, where time has no meaning. But for now, each day you grow older and weaker and one day you will die. Like the animals, trees, grass, etc etc etc. This is what sin did.

 

[Preacher Boy]

To often people associate physical with the spiritual.

When God said they would die if they ate the fruit...they ate and didnt die.

Hence he must not have been speaking of the physical.

II cor 5:17 says we are a new creature in Christ.

I got born again yet i still appear the same in the mirror.

I inherited the sinful nature from adam, in my spiritual life.

I was spiritual dead and had to be spiritually born again.

Nicodemus had this confused in john 3!

 

[Quath]

Quath, your missing the point here man.. It has nothing to do with DNA. When Adam sinned creation itself began to ware down. This is why God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden so they would not eat the tree of life and live in that state. Since the fall of man everything wares down. Even this world and the universe around us. There is a season for everything under the sun. But the good news is, God will one day restore this earth back to it's original sinless state, where time has no meaning. But for now, each day you grow older and weaker and one day you will die. Like the animals, trees, grass, etc etc etc. This is what sin did.

I find it interesting that the Jews who wrote this stuff down, did not interpret it this way. But I guess that is beside the point.

You are acting like "creation" is a conscious being with intelligence. Is it that or is it a process? If it is a being, then it must be separate from God or else God was corrupted by sin. If it is a process, then God could have kept the process from deteriorating since he sets up everything perfect.

Personally, I find this story is just to be a lesson in which humans are suppose to learn they are not the gods. This is a common lesson in most mythologies.

 

[Wandert]

How, if any would the discovery of life on a different planet impact your faith?

No more than the existence of monkeys. Intelligent life on the other hand, would be something indeed -- if they had a religion of their own. Plus, I've always thought it would be one of the most increadible and significant discoveries of man if we found an alien planet that had never discoverd math. Just a thought.

 

[freeway]

life on another planet....no big deal.. because I believe there is life, just not humans... Jesus came this world to save mankind... can't see him making more than one stop to take care of that...

 

[Jon-Marc]

How, if any would the discovery of life on a different planet impact your faith?

It wouldn't. I don't believe God created life on any other planet, but I also believe it to be a possibility. He can do anything and could put life on ANY planet--even one without air. Just because all life on this planet requires air to live doesn't God couldn't create life that doesn't need it--even intelligent life.

I saw a screensaver on someone's computer that showed ficticious scenes from space. One showed a creature that resembled a manta ray that flew rather than swimming that lived on a planet of gas, and I thought, "Why couldn't God do that if He wanted?"

 

[LittleNipper]

It wouldn't. I don't believe God created life on any other planet, but I also believe it to be a possibility. He can do anything and could put life on ANY planet--even one without air. Just because all life on this planet requires air to live doesn't God couldn't create life that doesn't need it--even intelligent life.

I saw a screensaver on someone's computer that showed ficticious scenes from space. One showed a creature that resembled a manta ray that flew rather than swimming that lived on a planet of gas, and I thought, "Why couldn't God do that if He wanted?"

You speak honestly, when you say, "I don't believe GOD created life on any planet." That is why you can assume that life might spring into existence anywhere. I believe life exists ONLY because GOD breathed it into existence. I also believe GOD has a plan. That plan does not measure up to random life springing into existence, at random times, by random means. I feel very strongly, that unless one runs into an angel :-D , there will be no life found to exist anywhere else but here on earth, unless we carry it along with us as we migrate.

 

[Jon-Marc]

No life "springs up". If it exists then God created it. I didn't say I believe that life exists on other planets--just the possibility that God COULD create it anywhere if He desired.

 

[LittleNipper]

No life "springs up". If it exists then God created it. I didn't say I believe that life exists on other planets--just the possibility that God COULD create it anywhere if He desired.

You must realize the EVERYTHING that GOD does is for the GLORY of GOD. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. So that nothing just happens without there being a reason ---- nothing.