The Rapture Vs. The Second Coming?

[n2thelight]

Just something to share.....

The Rapture Vs. The Second Coming?

Those who believe in a Pre-tribulation Rapture insist that it takes place at a separate time from the second coming of Jesus. The following is quoted from an article by Pastor Tim Warner…

“Pre-tribulationists pick out a certain detail from a known post-trib passage, like Matthew 24, then compare it to a rapture passage from the Epistles, which may not mention this particular detail, and conclude that they are two separate comings. But just because a certain element is not mentioned in a given rapture passage, does not mean it does not exist. If we used the same logic on the four Gospels, we would have to conclude that there were four separate Jesus Christs, and forty eight disciples, minus, of course, the four Judas Iscariots! Each of the Gospel accounts is different; each adds certain details, while leaving out others, but never in conflict. Only when we combine all four accounts, do we get a complete picture. The same is true of the rapture passages.

When we test the pre-trib logic, by comparing the two best known rapture passages, we find differences. For example, 1 Thessalonians 4 mentions the Lord descending from heaven, the shout, the voice of the archangel, the "catching up" of the saints, and clouds. None of these things are found in 1 Corinthians 15. On the other hand, 1 Corinthians 15 mentions the dead saints receiving resurrected bodies, while this is not found in 1 Thessalonians 4.

Using pre-trib logic, we would conclude that there will be two raptures, at one we will be "caught up;" at the other we will receive new bodies! Their logic cannot be sustained consistently. In fact, 1 Thessalonians 4 has far more in common with Matthew 24 than it does with 1 Corinthians 15!...

The entire pre-trib approach is illogical. Instead of trying to isolate passages based upon the absence of a particular detail, we should merge them based upon their common details. If all of the elements of two descriptions of the second coming can be integrated, without conflict, we can conclude that they are the same event. When we use this approach, we find many similarities between Jesus' descriptions of His coming after the tribulation, with Paul's descriptions of the rapture found in the epistles. When these accounts are merged, we have a complete picture of the second coming of Jesus Christ. [5]

Which in a nutshell is…. The last trumpet sounds, Christ returns with those Christians that have already died, who then are the first to receive their resurrected bodies (the dead shall be raised incorruptible). After which those that are still alive are also changed, then caught up with the previous group to meet the Lord in the air…

 

[Logos57]

I definitely agree with your views on this, well said.

 

[watchman F]

I agree with you as well onelove. Something else to mention is that in 1st Thessalonians 4: verse 15 tells us exactly when the rapture takes place.
1st Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Then verse 16-17 tell us the details of the rapture, but as i said verse 15 give us the timing at the coming of Christ which we know by Matthew 24 is after the Tribulation. Furthermore 1st Corinthians 15 tells us the rapture is at the last trump which CANNOT be before the Tribulation, it must be after the Tribulation seeing we know there are trumpet sound all through the Tribulation even one at Christ return. Scripturally the rapture cannot be at any other time than at the post trib return of Christ

 

[veteran]

Warner is correct, but I believe there's enough given in 1 Cor.15 to clearly show it's about the same event of 1 Thess.4:16-17.

1 Cor 15:35
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
(KJV)

1 Cor 15:42
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
(KJV)

1 Thess.4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

All those Scriptures declare the subject of the dead being raised. That's what the resurrection of the dead is called, and there's certainly many other Scriptures about the resurrection of the dead, in both OT and NT. But this raising of the dead link is not all.

-------------------------
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(KJV)

1 Thess.4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The 17th verse of 1 Thess.4 also shows what the 1 Cor.15:52 verse does about the saints on earth who remain being changed ("caught up") and gathered with the dead in Christ who are raised first.

1 Thess.4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(KJV)

------------------------
Both 1 Thess.4:15 and 1 Cor.15:52 show the alseep saints being raised first at the "last trump" (7th), and then the saints on earth who remain being changed ("caught up") and gathered to them when Christ brings them with Him.

1Thes 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(KJV)

1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(KJV)

The KJV word "prevent" in 1 Thess.4:15 is actually the word 'precede' in the Greek.

 

[watchman F]

Yes veteran I think so far we are all in agreement with your post.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I cant even find anything to dissagree with here. :eyebrow

 

[XTruth]

I cant even find anything to dissagree with here. :eyebrow

ALLOW ME, PLEASE
I'm not going to reinvent the wheel here; this is a copy and paste, but there are far more reference verses here than anywhere else on these posts concerning the subject. Either these Scriptures are wrong, or the rapture is a separate event from the Second Coming. Doesn't matter who wrote what...

20 CONTRASTS BETWEEN THE RAPTURE AND THE SECOND ADVENT

1. The rapture is a going up to heaven of all saved men of all past ages (John. 14:1-3; Col. 3:4; Jas. 5:7-8; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10), whereas the second advent is a coming down from heaven to earth of the same people (Rev. 19:11-21; Jude 14-15; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Mt. 16:27; Mt 24:29-31; Mt 25:31-46; Zech. 14:1-9).

2. The rapture is a coming of Christ from heaven to the clouds (not to the earth) for the saints-both dead (who will be resurrected) and alive-to take them to heaven (1 Thess. 4:16), while the second advent is a coming from heaven with the previously raptured saints to set up a kingdom and rule eternally (Zech. 14:1-9; Jude 14-15; Rev. 11:15; Rev 19:11-21; Rev 22:4-5; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Mt. 25:31-46; Isa. 9:6-7; Dan. 2:44-45;Dan 7:9-15,18,22,27; Lk. 1:32-36).

3. Our goal in the rapture is heaven to live with Christ in our mansions (John. 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 2:19-20; 1 Thess 3:13; 1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 Thess 5:1-11,23; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10; Col. 3:4; Jas. 5:7-8), while the goal in the second advent is to leave heaven for the earth to reign forever (Zech. 14; Jude 14-15; Rev. 11:15; Rev 19:11 - Rev 20:10).

4. At the rapture Christ does not come to destroy the Antichrist or any other wicked man but to remove the hinderer of lawlessness (the church, Chapter 10, Proof 1), so that the Antichrist can come (2 Thess. 2:7-8), while at the second advent Christ comes back to the earth with all saints of all ages to destroy Antichrist and multitudes of wicked men (2 Thess. 2:7-8; Dan. 7:11; Jude 14-15; Rev. 19:11-21; see also Mt. 24:37-42;Mt 25:31-46; Ezek. 38- Ezek. 39; Zech. 14).

5. At the rapture Christ comes from heaven to the clouds only (not to the earth) to take the good from among the bad (John. 5:28-29; John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Cor. 15:23,51-54; Phil. 3:21; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 4:16-18; Jas. 5:7-8), while at the second advent-years later-He comes to the earth with His raptured saints to take the bad from among the good (Mt. 13:30,39-43,49-50;Mt 24:29-31,37-42; Jude 14-15; Ezek. 38- Ezek. 39; Zech. 14; Rev. 19:11-21).

6. At the rapture only those qualified for heaven will be raptured (John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thess. 4:16; Rev. 20:4-6); only those who are born again will be changed from mortality to immortality and go to heaven. At the second advent, on the other hand, any and all men qualified to live on the earth as citizens will be permitted to continue as natural people into the next age, without any change from mortality to immortality (Mt. 25:31-46; Zech. 8:23;Zech 14:1-21; Isa. 2:2-4;Isa 66:19-21; Dan. 2:44-45;Dan 7:9-14; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 2:27-28; Rev 11:15; Rev 20:4-6).

7. At the rapture there will be no battle of Armageddon (John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Cor. 15:23,51-54; 1 Thess. 4:16), while at the second advent Armageddon will be fought (Zech. 14; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Jude 14-15; Rev. 16:13-16; Rev 19:11-21; Ezek. 38- Ezek. 39).

8. At the rapture there will be no change of home lands on earth among the nations (John. 14:1-3), while at the second advent there will be a general separation of nations back to their original home lands, including Israel (Isa. 11:11-12; Deut 32:8; Ezek. 37; Mt. 24:31; Acts 17:26).

9. At the rapture no man will be sent to hell, but all saints will be taken to heaven (John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Thess. 4:16; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10), while at the second advent millions of men will be sent to hell and none taken to heaven (Mt. 13:30,43-50;Mt 25:31-46; Isa. 14:9-15; Rev. 14:9-11; Rev 19:20; Rev 20:10).

10. At the rapture all saints will "escape all these things that shall come to pass" during the tribulation, and will "stand before the Son of man" (Lk. 21:34-36; John. 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:16;1 Thess 5:1-11; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10; see Chapter 10), whereas at the second advent no man who is subject to punishment will escape (Rev. 19:1-21; Mt. 24:29-31;Mt 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10).

11. The rapture will take place before the revelation of the Antichrist (2 Thess. 2:7-8) and before the tribulation and fulfillment of Rev. 4:1 - Rev 22:21, while the second advent will take place after these events (Mt. 24:29-31; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:11-21). See Chapter 10.

12. At the rapture there will be a resurrection of all the righteous dead (1 Thess. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15:23,51-54; Phil. 3:21), while at the second advent there will be no resurrection of any righteous man, for the first resurrection will then be over (Rev. 20:4-6).

13. At the time of the rapture no man on earth will know who the Antichrist is (2 Thess. 2:7-8), whereas at the second advent all men on earth in the civilized parts will know who he is (Rev. 13:16-18).

14. At the rapture the church and all others who are redeemed saints at that time will be presented to God in heaven (Eph. 5:27; 1 Thess. 3:13;1 Thess 5:23), while at the second advent all raptured saints will be presented to men on earth as their new rulers (Rev. 2:27; Rev 5:10; Rev 20:4-6; Dan. 7:9-27).

15. Before the rapture there will be no marriage supper of the Lamb, whereas just before the second advent there will be such a supper of Christ with all the redeemed of all ages past (Rev. 19:1-21).

16. There will be a seven-year period of tribulation after the rapture (2 Thess. 2:7-8; Dan. 9:27; Rev. 6:1 - Rev 19:21), whereas there will be no tribulation at all after the second advent, for the second coming of Christ ends all tribulation (Mt. 24:29-31;Mt 25:31-46; Rev. 19-20).

17. There will be no end of the world (age) at the time of the rapture, while the age will definitely end at the time of the second advent of Christ to the earth (Mt. 24:1-3,29-31;Mt 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; Rev. 19:1 - Rev 20:10).

18. The rapture is an event that can take place any day without any prophecy being fulfilled or any sign coming to pass (1 Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:21; Tit. 2:13; 1 Thess. 1:10), while the second advent cannot take place until all of the predictions in Mt. 24 - Mt. 25; Mk 13; Lk. 21:1-11,25-33; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; and Rev. 4:1 - Rev 19:10 have been fulfilled.

19. There will be no reign of the Antichrist before the rapture, but there will be such a reign before the second advent (Dan. 9:27; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; Rev. 6:1 - Rev 19:21).

20. There will be no martyrdoms of saints after the second advent, while there will be multitudes of martyrs after the rapture and between the time of the rapture and the second advent (Rev. 6:9-11; Rev 7:9-17; Rev 13:7; Rev 14:9-13; Rev 15:1-4; Rev 17:6; Rev 18:24; Rev 20:4-6).



We conclude then, that if the church and all other raptured saints are to eat a marriage supper with Christ in heaven (as in Rev. 19:1-10), which happens just before the second advent begins (as in Rev. 19:11-21), then the church cannot remain on earth through the tribulation period. It must arrive in heaven prior to the time of the second advent. Furthermore, if the saints are to leave with Christ at the second advent they must already be up in heaven before that time so as to be able to return with Him. And since the rapture can take place at any moment (as taught in 1 Cor. 15:51-54; Phil. 3:21 and Tit. 2:13)-since it could have happened even in Paul's day according to these passages of Scripture-then we can be certain that the rapture will not take place at a specified time as in the case of the second advent which is predicted to happen at a particular time-that is, at the end of the tribulation period (Mt. 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21). This, to us, is truly conclusive proof that the rapture of the church and O.T. saints will take place before the tribulation begins.

—Dake's Topics