The Unpardonable Sin

[golfjack]

In the Christian world, the sin unto death has been a subject of debate for many years. Can a Christian lose their salvation? Well, according to scripture, I would say yes. We have Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29 which imply that is possible to commit the unpardonable sin. Let me say from the onset that I don't think that a baby Christian can lose their salvation. I know this is a touchy subject. There are some who are in mental institutions who think they have committed this sin, but they probably haven't. The devil is having a field day with believers on this subject. So, we better make sure we inform Christians about this sin with the best interpretation we can come up with.

Let's investigate Hebrews 6:4-6: Heb. 6:4 says For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened. What does this mean? Many Christians call this Getting under conviction. The preaching of the Word enlightens the sinner. It's like the prodical son when he came to himself ( Luke 15:17). Through the preaching of God's Word, the sinner sees that he is lost. He's enlightened about the truth of God's Word and sees his need for a Savior.

Second, Hebrews 6:4 says, and have tasted of the heavenly gift. A man that is under conviction has not yet tasted of the Heavenly gift, because Jesus is the Heavenly gift. So tasting the heavenly Gift refers to salvation, receiving Jesus Christ as his Savior.

Then third, And were made partakers of the Holy Ghost ( Heb. 6:4). This means more than being born again and becoming acquainted with the Holy Spirit through His indwelling Presense ( John 14:16, 17). It refers to being filled with the Holy Spirit, having received the baptism in the Holy Spirit ( Acts 1:5; 2:4).

Then fourth, And have tasted the good Word of God, ( Heb. 6:5). I don't believe this applies to baby Christians. They haven't tasted the good Word of God. First Peter 2:2 tells us: As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby. Babes in Christ couldn't qualify for committing the unpardonable sin because they haven't tasted the solid meat of God's Word. They're only on the milk of the Word. In other words, they wouldn't be mature enough to know what they are doing.

The fifth condition for committing the unpardonable sin is that a person has tasted the powers of the world to come ( Heb. 6:5). I believe the power of the world to come are spiritual gifts. Those who have tasted of the powers of the world to come are mature Christians who have the gifts of the Spirit operating in their lives or ministries. The baptism of the Holy Spirit with the ensuing gifts is the earnest of our inheritence in the world to come ( Eph. 1:13, 14; 2 Cor. 5:5).

So there are five Bible qualifications a believer would have to meet before he or she could qualify of committing the unpardonable sin. One can readily see that very few believers could qualify to be guilty of committing this sin.

It's what the mature Christian does about Jesus that determines whether he commits the sin unto death. If the mature Christian willfully denies Christ with deliberate forethought, the Bible calls that committiing the unpardonable sin, which is the sin unto death. The sin unto death leads to spiritual death, Eternal separation from God.


May God bless, golfjack

 

[cyberjosh]

We have Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29 which imply that is possible to commit the unpardonable sin.

What a coincidence, I just referenced those two sets of verses in relation to the unpardonable sin that Jesus mentions in another thread. Except I have one important difference/clarification in my view, anyone can commit this if they repeatedly reject the Holy Spirit, and I believe this applies especially to unbelievers whom God repreatedly "woos" to follow him but reject him repeatedly. This also makes sense of Jesus warning the Pharisees of this, because of their rejecting God's works of salvation and atributing it to evil (Satan). He can be rejected by anyone and unbelievers are without excuse, "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. " (Romans 1:20)


As for the interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6, it is so sticky that I have bounced back and and forth between views on it so many times that I don't really know what to think. I've gone from OSAS to believing in post-salvation apostacy, back to a modified OSAS which emphasizes perseverance for proof of salvation (works as proof of faith, "by their fruits you shall know them"). So perhaps I will consult some sources and talk this out with you more.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Feel free to disguss more Cyber. You must consider that an unbeliever has no salvation to lose. Therefore, as long as he is living, he still has a chance to accept Christ. Also, I believer if a believer loses his salvation, he cannot ever get it back because says we are not to pray for this kind of person anymore. ( 1 John 5:16-17). Something to ponder about: I believe the book of Hebrews, which I believe Paul wrote, for the most part addresses Jewish believers who went back to Judiasm and denied the resurrection and their Messiah.They fulfilled all the conditions of Hebrews 6:4-6.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[D46]

Also, I believer if a believer loses his salvation, he cannot ever get it back because says we are not to pray for this kind of person anymore. ( 1 John 5:16-17)

And what is the criteria for loosing one's salvation? Have they lost it if they start running a little wild for a season after serving God for 20 years? Or, like Peter, deny the Lord? I don't think Peter lost his salvation and if anyone on this board has never faltered in their walk with God they are not telling the truth. What if someone comes to God, repents of their sin, lives for Him for a given amount of time, and stops going to church, for whatever the reason, for say... ten years. Are they lost? Just trying to get a handle on what you mean here. It seems you're mixing apples and oranges here talking about the unpardonable sin and then mentioning falling away and loosing one's salvation. That's two different things to me.I don't believe in OSAS but again, what is the criteria for loosing your salvation?

 

[golfjack]

reply

The criteria is written in my original post D.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[cyberjosh]

Feel free to disguss more Cyber. You must consider that an unbeliever has no salvation to lose. Therefore, as long as he is living, he still has a chance to accept Christ.

Well, I see where you are coming from but I have to disagree on one point. What they will loose is their opportunity to turn back to God (eventually), God never guarantees the unbeliever that He will unceasingly knock on the door of their heart for their whole life. Infact the Bible says that God will give them over to their vile passions, letting them live their blind life, and it also says that some can have seared and calloused conciences which to me denotes a point of no return, in which someone has rejected God's truth so much that they can't choose good anymore. The largest example of this will probably be whoever the anti-Christ turns out to be. But this rejection is why it is so dangerous not to accept God, because you blaspheme the Holy Spirit by rejecting his promptings to salvation and so trample the cross under your feet: the unforgivable sin, a point of no return. This is no small thing to trip over and no one time event, but the result of multiple and perhaps constant promptings from God and subsequent rejections of God's calling. And I believe that while you are living you can reach a point of no return in which you become callous to God's calling and have a seared concience, at which point God gives you over to your vile passions.

 

[golfjack]

reply

It is not God's fault if one isn't saved. It is the unbeliever who sends himself to hell. This is why I reject any form of Calvanism. It is the same for the believer. It is his choice of rejection after he is saved. sin does not make one lose their salvation, but it is sure dangerous to live in sin after one is saved. Also, if one acts like Satan, and doesn't show any fruits, he is probably not saved in the first place.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[cyberjosh]

It is not God's fault if one isn't saved. It is the unbeliever who sends himself to hell. This is why I reject any form of Calvanism. It is the same for the believer. It is his choice of rejection after he is saved. sin does not make one lose their salvation, but it is sure dangerous to live in sin after one is saved. Also, if one acts like Satan, and doesn't show any fruits, he is probably not saved in the first place.

I'm not arguing with you on this, but I fail to see the relevancy of this post to what I wrote. That didn't answer any of my points.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Cyber, I don't know what you are getting at. All I am saying is when one rejects Christ, it doesn't necessarily mean that He won't come to Christ. Salvation is out there for everyone. Jesus is at the door, and it is up to the unbeliever to open it. Show me Scripture that says God gives up on someone? The viles and all that is an unbelievers heart ( spirit). It is rotten to the core. This is why we must be born again. The rest as far as our soulish level is up to us. God has done all He is ever going to do about saving us in the new birth process.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[samuel]

Hebrews 6 has been and is probably one of the most discussed verses of the Bible. One has to consider the problem Paul was faced with here - to fully understand it. It was Paul who wrote this you know! if you look for certain clues you will find them. Many theologians say it was not Paul because of the writing style, well I guess so he was writing to a different group here than those he usually wrote to. Hebrews is Paul's equivalent to Romans written to the gentile Christians, but written to the Hebrew (Jewish) Christians not the gentiles. Also don’t forget Paul dictated most of his letters to different helpers, and could be the reason for the little difference in style.

While it might be possible for a person to reject God turn his back, and walk away it would not be a common thing. Most would say this person was never truly saved in the beginning. But this is not the basis for this group of verses. There were those who Paul dealt with at this time called judaizers. These were both true Jews, and some were proselyted gentiles. In this case some could have been close family members.

The problem was they were trying to get the Jewish converts to believe they still had to observe the Law, and customs of the Jews plus Christ. We still have those among us today.
Remember Christ said you cannot put new wine into the old skins, otherwise the new wine would burst the old skins, and both would be lost. Paul also spoke of this, and said to do so would nullify Grace placing those who would do so back under law. Thus falling from Grace, and being judged by Law, by which no man can be saved.

He finished this conversation in chapter 10.

Heb 10:26-29
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
KJV

Verse 26 does not mean that if we knowingly sin we are doomed. I think there are none of who ever committed a sin, did not in our mind know we were doing wrong. If that were the case here I fear hardly any of us would ever make it. This is referring to the willful sin of Apostasy (denying the knowledge of the revealed truth). This is evident in verse 26.

 

[D46]

Re: reply

The criteria is written in my original post D.

Walking away from God for a season is not the unpardonable sin. You have Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:5-6 mixed up it appears. If your definition(s) are correct, which they are not, then the backslider is doomed and many of us are eternally damned by that definition. I don't buy that. Apart from the cross, there is no more sacrafice for sin-Jesus paid it all. That's basically Hebrews 6:5-6 and what he's saying in Chapter 10:26.

 

[jgredline]

Hebrews 6 has been and is probably one of the most discussed verses of the Bible. One has to consider the problem Paul was faced with here - to fully understand it. It was Paul who wrote this you know! if you look for certain clues you will find them. Many theologians say it was not Paul because of the writing style, well I guess so he was writing to a different group here than those he usually wrote to. Hebrews is Paul's equivalent to Romans, written to the gentile Christians. Also don’t forget Paul dictated most of his letters to different helpers, and could be the reason for the little difference in style.

While it might be possible for a person to reject God turn his back, and walk away it would not be a common thing. Most would say this person was never truly saved in the beginning. But this is not the basis for this group of verses. There were those who Paul dealt with at this time called judaizers. These were both true Jews, and some were proselyted gentiles. In this case some could have been close family members.

The problem was they were trying to get the Jewish converts to believe they still had to observe the Law, and customs of the Jews plus Christ. We still have those among us today.
Remember Christ said you cannot put new wine into the old skins, otherwise the new wine would burst the old skins, and both would be lost. Paul also spoke of this, and said to do so would nullify Grace placing those who would did so back under law. Thus falling from Grace, and being judged by Law, by which no man can be saved.

He finished this conversation in chapter 10.

Heb 10:26-29
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
KJV

Verse 26 does not mean that if we knowingly sin we are doomed. I think there are none of who ever committed a sin, did not in our mind know we were doing wrong. If that were the case here I fear hardly any of us would ever make it. This is referring to the willful sin of Apostasy. This is evident in verse 26.

Samuel
I enjoy reading your stuff. On your interpretaion of Heb 6, you are close in my opinion. I too believe paul wrote it and your right that it is his equivalent to Romans, but may I suggest this book was written to the ''Hebrews'' Not to the Christians as was Romans.

Heb 6:4-6 njkv
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.


The question here is simple. Who were the ones who were once enlightened?
It was the Jews / Hebrews... I can exposit on this a little more later, but if you look at the book of Hebrews as a book Primarily written to the jews, this book will come alive in a new and powerful way.... IMO.

 

[samuel]

This is exactly the common mistake that I referred to. There is a difference in backsliding, and willfully turning your back and rejecting Christ. I believe that is the term I used "rejecting" that my friend is not backsliding.

I think I summed up at the end what you are talking about if you will look.

 

[samuel]

jgredline.

I had an afterthought about that, but assumed most would know it was written to the Hebrews, not the Gentiles. I believe I did mention Jewish converts, that being the Hebrews - naturally. :D

But this would apply to anyone who turned his back on Grace, to obey law. Or even just simply said God I dont need you anymore, a horrifying thought.

 

[jgredline]

jgredline.

I had an afterthought about that, but assumed most would know it was written to the Hebrews, not the Gentiles. I believe I did mention Jewish converts, that being the Hebrews - naturally. :D

But this would apply to anyone who turned his back on Grace, to obey law. Or even just simply said God I dont need you anymore, a horrifying thought.

Samuel
Yea, I figured that, because it would have made sense with the rest of your thought You may want to edit it, so that anybody new would understand it.

I will say this. There is no way for a true child of God to loose his salvation.
This has nothing to do with calvinism or armenianism.... It all comes down to this. God will NOT take away a gift he has given you... When we accept Jesus
(I am talking about Jesus who is God, Deity) as our saviour he seals us and places our name in the lambs book of life. From all the scriptures, noplace does it say that God is sitting by his book with an eraser....

Now I do believe that people can walk away from their salvation.... Now this brings up another point. If anybody chooses to walk away from their salvation, then their name was never in the book of life to begin with...

No Child of God can or will ever loose his salvation and this includes back sliden Christians... God will not take something back that he has given you... Grace is a gift... meaning that their is nothing we can do to earn it...
This is a major flaw in catholic teachings as well as some prodestant teachings....

 

[samuel]

jgredline.

Thats why I interjected the thought, that most would say this person was never saved in the first place.

I think I will edit the post, but my internet is so slow tonight I can sleep while waiting for a connection. And I am on a 6 meg. DSL connection, must be the weather. :D

 

[francisdesales]

And what is the criteria for loosing one's salvation? Have they lost it if they start running a little wild for a season after serving God for 20 years? Or, like Peter, deny the Lord? I don't think Peter lost his salvation and if anyone on this board has never faltered in their walk with God they are not telling the truth. What if someone comes to God, repents of their sin, lives for Him for a given amount of time, and stops going to church, for whatever the reason, for say... ten years. Are they lost? Just trying to get a handle on what you mean here. It seems you're mixing apples and oranges here talking about the unpardonable sin and then mentioning falling away and loosing one's salvation. That's two different things to me.I don't believe in OSAS but again, what is the criteria for loosing your salvation?

For once, I agree with what you are saying! Once a person was healed, it doesn't follow that he won't get sick again. Thus, the original healing certainly WAS true. But Scriptures time and again point to man faltering after being healed. Experience tells us this is true. So why judge "whether he REALLY was saved or not"? He WAS! Fortunately, there is post-Baptismal forgiveness of sins, offered as the result of Christ's one-time sacrifice on the cross applied to those who ask for forgiveness of these sins after Baptism. (see 1 John 1) Repentance and conversion is a life-long journey.

Regards

 

[cyberjosh]

All I am saying is when one rejects Christ, it doesn't necessarily mean that He won't come to Christ.

Obviously. I'm just saying that I believe that there can be a certain point (not necessarily hinging on the number of times God has prompted them) that one can reject God so much as to be callous to returning to him.

Show me Scripture that says God gives up on someone?

It is not stated in so many words but let me quote and discuss a few verses that show examples of never turning to God because of a hard heart:

First off, Pharaoh hardened his heart ten times and God hardened his heart the other instances. Then after Israel escaped from Egypt we never hear anything about Pharaoh again, only that he was defeated and his army made a spectacle. We see here a man who hardened his heart against God, and which God subsequently hardened for him, and then was left in ruin as God led his people out of Egypt.

The Bible also gives us a demonstraction of those who are kept in the darkness because of their hearts.

And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?â€Â
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:


‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

(Matthew 13:10-15)

Notice also what Jesus said concerning the Disciples talking with the Pharisees. Note that God is not cruel in this instance because he knows the hearts of the wicked Pharisees and that they rejected the truth Jesus was peaching, thus were not able to understand:

"Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.†(Matthew 15:14)


Jesus said to leave them alone, not to even talk with them, because the Pharisees has already rejected God's word (the light) so they were given up to their own blindness (the darkness). God will leave people alone if their heart has rejected him already, there is no mandatory number of times that God must come to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 mentions this issue also, "...that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a strong delusion so that they will believe what is false."


Because of a rejection of the truth and salvation one can become so callous as to have rejected God so completely that God will give them up to believe in a lie.

This callousness is mentioned elsewhere, "So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. " (Ephesians 4:17-19).

I believe that there can be a point of no return if you blaspheme/reject the Holy Spirit enough (thus commiting the unpardonable sin), and thus trample the cross under your feet.

 

[D46]

For once, I agree with what you are saying! Once a person was healed, it doesn't follow that he won't get sick again. Thus, the original healing certainly WAS true. But Scriptures time and again point to man faltering after being healed. Experience tells us this is true. So why judge "whether he REALLY was saved or not"? He WAS! Fortunately, there is post-Baptismal forgiveness of sins, offered as the result of Christ's one-time sacrifice on the cross applied to those who ask for forgiveness of these sins after Baptism. (see 1 John 1) Repentance and conversion is a life-long journey.

Well, I guess I'm made some progress, then!!

I believe that there can be a point of no return if you blaspheme/reject the Holy Spirit enough (thus commiting the unpardonable sin), and thus trample the cross under your feet.

I believe this also. However, none of us know just where that line is drawn. It may vary, and I have no doubt it does, from individual to individual. It's a dangerous situation to tempt God and his grace.

 

[cyberjosh]

I believe this also. However, none of us know just where that line is drawn. It may vary, and I have no doubt it does, from individual to individual.

Of course, of course. I would never presume to draw that line, and always pray for God's abundance of Grace towards a person.

It's a dangerous situation to tempt God and his grace.

Very, very true.