netchaplain
Member
I do not choose to believe that God, for no known reason, chooses some to salvation and not others, for any reason! The definite supposition is that God cannot be “prejudice,” He would be a “respecter of persons” if He also saved the unbelievers He would be breaking His own law for them, which is reject God and perish - Luk 20:21; Act 10:34; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17. Therefore it’s my belief that God only chooses those whom He knows are going to choose Him. When the Potter is working the clay He already knows who will or will not choose to be saved (God’s omniscient).
I believe this answers to the “vessels of destruction” and “vessels of mercy” (Rom 9:22, 23). For God to be fair, He cannot bestow mercy on vessels of destruction. People must want God of their own volition, then He “draws” them (Jhn 6:44), otherwise it wouldn’t be fair. If He was the One to cause one to desire Himself, everyone would be saved, because He would cause everyone to desire Him. Christ chooses us first, because we didn’t know we would be choosing Him; but He knew we would choose Him! Of course a bit difficult to explain, but this is what I’ve believed for 50 years now.
NC
Our Father was pleased to create a world, and set it revolving in space amongst the countless orbs which shine in the heavens around us. He was pleased to allow sin and death to enter that fair scene (so that Adam and Eve could become aware of what sin is, of which they were unaware, until “the eyes of them both were opened“ - Gen 3:7, which I believe allowed them to become aware of God’s holiness—NC). Who can “reply”? He was pleased to choose and to call a people out of the world, and to permit them to destroy themselves (my opinion is that “destroy” is in the sense of dishonoring themselves as those who “willfully sin” do - Heb 10:26—NC), while He, with longsuffering, bore with them “till there was no remedy” (2Ch 36:16).
He was pleased to send His Son to “endure the Cross” (Heb 12:2) and bear His wrath against sin (of course the “wrath” was on the sin and not on Christ—NC). Who was before Him in all this? Not one! In all things He wrought: He permitted; He ordered; and it is He who challenges the stubborn heart which would say, “Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will?” It is He who designs to stoop to the reply, “Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, “Why hast thou made me thus”? (Ro 9:19-21).
Have we ever stood in the potter’s house, and beheld him, as he wrought on the wheel? The workman takes the lump of clay; he presses it to the wheel; the wheel revolves before the eye. Now where, let me ask, is the vessel? It is in the mind of the potter, before it is formed: the design is there. His fingers shape the mass before him: gradually it grows up before his eye; gradually the thought of his mind is transferred to the clay, and it rises up before him, and the thoughts hitherto unexpressed, grow into the vessel which his fingers mold.
He sees a flaw; an imperfection in the clay. Others, beholding, have not detected it, as with the artist’s eye. He crushes the clay under his hand into a shapeless mass again. Once more his fingers mold and fashion it into his design. Again and again defects appear. Again and again the clay is reduced to a shapeless mass, until at last it rises in perfection of design before him; his eye surveys it with satisfaction and pride; and he removes it from the wheel to take its place with the choice things of the earth around (this represents the Christian—NC).
This is the history of the growing believer (God shaping only believers “to desire and do His good pleasure” - Phl 2:13—NC). The clay is in the Potter’s hand. His fingers fashion it, and it begins marred; the clay needs more of His patient manipulation and skill. It is not yet smooth and even pliable to His hand. He crushes it time after time (i.e. trial after trial—NC). The perfect vessel stood before His mind and purpose before His hand had taken the clay, and placed it on the wheel of life (unbelievers are purposed to perish, and believers are purposed to salvation—NC). But when all is done, He has transferred His thought and purpose with unerring skill to the clay; the Potter is now seen in His handiwork; and it is a vessel of mercy, which He afore has prepared for glory.
How important, as these trials take place, is the need of interpretation of these skillful workings of the hands of the Potter! How often are the lessons misunderstood (never have been many mature believers—NC); or not apprehended at all (which has nothing to do with being saved but for growth—NC)! In the history of souls in the Word these actions are seen, the results are reached. In them we read the history of His dealings with our own souls, and the handiwork of our Father. We look then for the lines of beauty resulting from His hand; we yield ourselves to the things which happen; we see the end of the Lord (how it is with Christ—NC): we know how it is that “all things work together for good to them that love God, who are the called according to His purpose: (Ro 8:28).
— Frederick George Patterson (1832-1887)
MJS daily devotional excerpt for June 25
““Covenant theology, which has molded the major theological conceptions for many generations, recognizes no distinctions as to ages, therefore can allow for no distinctions between law and grace. This dominating attitude of Covenantism must account for the utter neglect of life truth (growth) in all their works of theology (presently God doesn't even have a Covenant with His people Israel, but will latter renew a permanent covenant with them; which will still be Law (Jer 31:31; Eze 36:26, 27).
“No more representative theological dictum from the Covenant viewpoint has been formed than the Westminster Confession of Faith, which valuable and important document recognizes life truth only to the point of imposing the Ten Commandments on Christians as their sole obligation, and in spite of the teachings of the New Testament which asserts that the Law was never given to Gentile or Christian.”
- Lewis Sperry Chafer (1871-1952)
Note: Christians have no covenant with God, but rather are recipients of the “Covenant of Redemption” (Heb 13:20, 21), which is a covenant between the Father and the Son, in that the Father raised His Son from death after being the sacrifice for mankind. Nowhere is there any given Scripture with language that expresses a Covenant with Christians, only a declaration of Christ’s pledge to save believers (Mat 26:28).
For whatever reason, God seems a bit secretive concerning the particulars of this Covenant (the same concerning Israel’s eschatology), as it is not openly clear that it is between Him and His Son (but much Scripturally inferred); but not secretive about the availability of its import to mankind. How much love to those who are His, and how much better a covenant that can’t ever be broken?—Amen. God’s love to all who love Him!
NC
I believe this answers to the “vessels of destruction” and “vessels of mercy” (Rom 9:22, 23). For God to be fair, He cannot bestow mercy on vessels of destruction. People must want God of their own volition, then He “draws” them (Jhn 6:44), otherwise it wouldn’t be fair. If He was the One to cause one to desire Himself, everyone would be saved, because He would cause everyone to desire Him. Christ chooses us first, because we didn’t know we would be choosing Him; but He knew we would choose Him! Of course a bit difficult to explain, but this is what I’ve believed for 50 years now.
NC
The Wheel of Life
Our Father was pleased to create a world, and set it revolving in space amongst the countless orbs which shine in the heavens around us. He was pleased to allow sin and death to enter that fair scene (so that Adam and Eve could become aware of what sin is, of which they were unaware, until “the eyes of them both were opened“ - Gen 3:7, which I believe allowed them to become aware of God’s holiness—NC). Who can “reply”? He was pleased to choose and to call a people out of the world, and to permit them to destroy themselves (my opinion is that “destroy” is in the sense of dishonoring themselves as those who “willfully sin” do - Heb 10:26—NC), while He, with longsuffering, bore with them “till there was no remedy” (2Ch 36:16).
He was pleased to send His Son to “endure the Cross” (Heb 12:2) and bear His wrath against sin (of course the “wrath” was on the sin and not on Christ—NC). Who was before Him in all this? Not one! In all things He wrought: He permitted; He ordered; and it is He who challenges the stubborn heart which would say, “Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will?” It is He who designs to stoop to the reply, “Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, “Why hast thou made me thus”? (Ro 9:19-21).
Have we ever stood in the potter’s house, and beheld him, as he wrought on the wheel? The workman takes the lump of clay; he presses it to the wheel; the wheel revolves before the eye. Now where, let me ask, is the vessel? It is in the mind of the potter, before it is formed: the design is there. His fingers shape the mass before him: gradually it grows up before his eye; gradually the thought of his mind is transferred to the clay, and it rises up before him, and the thoughts hitherto unexpressed, grow into the vessel which his fingers mold.
He sees a flaw; an imperfection in the clay. Others, beholding, have not detected it, as with the artist’s eye. He crushes the clay under his hand into a shapeless mass again. Once more his fingers mold and fashion it into his design. Again and again defects appear. Again and again the clay is reduced to a shapeless mass, until at last it rises in perfection of design before him; his eye surveys it with satisfaction and pride; and he removes it from the wheel to take its place with the choice things of the earth around (this represents the Christian—NC).
This is the history of the growing believer (God shaping only believers “to desire and do His good pleasure” - Phl 2:13—NC). The clay is in the Potter’s hand. His fingers fashion it, and it begins marred; the clay needs more of His patient manipulation and skill. It is not yet smooth and even pliable to His hand. He crushes it time after time (i.e. trial after trial—NC). The perfect vessel stood before His mind and purpose before His hand had taken the clay, and placed it on the wheel of life (unbelievers are purposed to perish, and believers are purposed to salvation—NC). But when all is done, He has transferred His thought and purpose with unerring skill to the clay; the Potter is now seen in His handiwork; and it is a vessel of mercy, which He afore has prepared for glory.
How important, as these trials take place, is the need of interpretation of these skillful workings of the hands of the Potter! How often are the lessons misunderstood (never have been many mature believers—NC); or not apprehended at all (which has nothing to do with being saved but for growth—NC)! In the history of souls in the Word these actions are seen, the results are reached. In them we read the history of His dealings with our own souls, and the handiwork of our Father. We look then for the lines of beauty resulting from His hand; we yield ourselves to the things which happen; we see the end of the Lord (how it is with Christ—NC): we know how it is that “all things work together for good to them that love God, who are the called according to His purpose: (Ro 8:28).
— Frederick George Patterson (1832-1887)
MJS daily devotional excerpt for June 25
““Covenant theology, which has molded the major theological conceptions for many generations, recognizes no distinctions as to ages, therefore can allow for no distinctions between law and grace. This dominating attitude of Covenantism must account for the utter neglect of life truth (growth) in all their works of theology (presently God doesn't even have a Covenant with His people Israel, but will latter renew a permanent covenant with them; which will still be Law (Jer 31:31; Eze 36:26, 27).
“No more representative theological dictum from the Covenant viewpoint has been formed than the Westminster Confession of Faith, which valuable and important document recognizes life truth only to the point of imposing the Ten Commandments on Christians as their sole obligation, and in spite of the teachings of the New Testament which asserts that the Law was never given to Gentile or Christian.”
- Lewis Sperry Chafer (1871-1952)
Note: Christians have no covenant with God, but rather are recipients of the “Covenant of Redemption” (Heb 13:20, 21), which is a covenant between the Father and the Son, in that the Father raised His Son from death after being the sacrifice for mankind. Nowhere is there any given Scripture with language that expresses a Covenant with Christians, only a declaration of Christ’s pledge to save believers (Mat 26:28).
For whatever reason, God seems a bit secretive concerning the particulars of this Covenant (the same concerning Israel’s eschatology), as it is not openly clear that it is between Him and His Son (but much Scripturally inferred); but not secretive about the availability of its import to mankind. How much love to those who are His, and how much better a covenant that can’t ever be broken?—Amen. God’s love to all who love Him!
NC
