The World Can't Understand

[Lewis]

A couple of days ago' I watched the Amish talk about forgiving. And the reporters and anchor people were like WHAT !. They were asking like' how is that possible. And the Amish said because Jesus forgave us. And the secular media was still dumfounded. And today when the Amish told them that they had went to the killers relatives and told them that they forgave' their son. The secular media and others had to pick their jaws up off the floor. This hard for some Christians to get. And the world' is another story. If those were my children' I wonder how I would have acted

 

[mutzrein]

And sadly I believe many who call themselves Christian cannot understand either. Quite a lesson to us isn't it.

 

[Dave...]

And sadly I believe many who call themselves Christian cannot understand either. Quite a lesson to us isn't it.

Yeah, O'Reilly, who is Catholic said that the reason that the Amish forgave the killer was because they believe that nothing happens outside of God's control, that if it happened, it was God's will.

Imagine a radical belief like that. Who could ever believe such a thing? :o :

 

[Atonement]

Speaking as a single father of a 5yr old little girl. If something like this happened in her school and God forbid she was hurt.. I could not forgive.. I'm human and I don't say I'm perfect or w/o sin. Maybe in time I could learn to forgive but untill that time came. I know I could'nt. I would lie to each of you if I said I could just forgive..

 

[lovely]

Atonement,

I can see you are a very loving father, and I was blessed by your honest confession. I imagine many of us who are parents imagined our own children being in harms way that day. It was chilling, and satanic. You are right, you could not forgive on your own, but with the help of the Spirit, because you are a new man, you could be obedient in this area because of that Love in you. I admit, this would be a supreme denial of self...like God's own sacrificial example of love, but certainly a wonderful area to be free from the bondage of sin in. You could be set free, by the Truth, and draw so much nearer to God, especially for comfort, in the doing.

I am very protective of my children, and never want pain to enter their lives, but (as Dave touched on) God does allow such things at times for His glory. Look at the example of forgiveness set before the entire world. Would we give our families up for such a testimony of God's love? Would we dedicate our husband, wife, or children willingly to remain obedient, and further His kingdom? Sometimes when I read Voice of the Martyrs I am struck with what people do for Christ, even when they are in danger. What faith, and trust. Would I have such faith...to die for the right to sing a hymn to the Lord, or own a Bible? Would I put my family at risk for such things?

To be honest, I don't know what I would do, but I hope that I decide to be obedient...down to the deepest core of my soul...to God's freeing Truth...even unto death of myself, and my family. We don't have to think of that much here where we live. I want a heart now that has already given my children, and my husband, over to Him...and my self as well. I pray for those families, that community, but they are the ones who are being comforted by God...their choice to forgive is sure evidence of that. I am grateful.

I pray mostly for a lost world looking on. I pray that one person picks up the Word, or walks into a church, and asks for the way to find hope, and life, in Christ, and that their light will be added to ours and shine forth to more for the sake of the family of God. I pray that believers remember the dedication of service that God expects of them, and that they decide to follow Him anywhere carrying their crosses joyfully. It's my hope that all of us can have this commitment always, not just when there is a tragedy to remind us. The Lord bless you atonement, all of you.

 

[mutzrein]

I don't think we can 'turn on' forgiveness. In the depths of our hearts we would grieve at such a loss and question why God would allow us to go through such circumstances. But at the end of the day, do we get bitter toward those who remain or do we submit the loss, the pain and the grief to the Lord. And if someone asks for forgiveness are we to turn away and not give it.

I think we shoud be mindful of the scripture that tells us that unless we forgive others, we ourselves cannot be forgiven.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

As one who has lost countless loved ones to crime, I find dealing with forgiveness to be a daily process.

Forgiveness begins as an act of will. Not feeling. Not love toward the criminal. But the will to obey God. Taking the bitterness, resentment, malice, and vengeance to the Lord.

Praying for the person who has committed the offence begins first in asking for their salvation. What greater vengeance could there be against satan himself than for him to lose one of his people. Snatched out of his hand and turned around to fight against him. God often works miracles in the life of such a criminal.

Questions of why God allows such things are usually the first questions out of our mouths. It is so important to have a foundation of faith when we are faced with the loss of a loved one under such horrible circumstances. The faith that this foundation is made of is all important.

You must believe that God is good. All the time. You must know that we are living in a fallen world. When Adam fell, God cursed the serpent, God cursed the man, God cursed the woman, and God cursed the ground. Believing Romans 8:28 is an absolute must. The family, friends and loved ones left behind will never be the same. All things, especially the most tragic, are opportunities to reach the lost. Share with them the comfort that God offers.

Remember Rachel Scott? One of the victims of the Colombine High School massacre? Her story has touched many. Her faith was strong. And when all of that was in the media spotlight, I had the opportunity to speak to some high school students in this area. Almost all of them gave their hearts to the Lord that night.

And then there is the part of the gospel that no one wants to talk about.

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Nah 1:2 God [is] jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and [is] furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth [wrath] for his enemies.

When you go through the experience of having loved ones murdered, part of the healing must be a sense of justice. In praying for the criminal, asking for their salvation, there is the sad truth that not all murders are going to repent and get saved. It is not wise to just assume that God will deal with it. You must ask Him to.

Pray that God will lead the authorities to them, if they have not been caught. Pray for the judicial system to do the right thing. Pray for all of the other victims and survivors. Pray that God's will be done, and that He will take vengeance on His enemies.

Losing loved ones is hard. Knowing that their killers are simply never going to be brought to justice in this life time is hard. Knowing that God is a God of justice, and righteousness, and grace and mercy... knowing that He knows the hearts and minds of the criminals as well as the victims, knowing that I can trust Him in His judgments, makes it easier to go on.

Knowing what bitterness and unforgiveness can do to a person, is the other side of the coin.

I choose to forgive. ALWAYS. Yet I continue to pray for justice.

 

[Veritas]

A couple of days ago' I watched the Amish talk about forgiving. And the reporters and anchor people were like WHAT !. They were asking like' how is that possible. And the Amish said because Jesus forgave us. And the secular media was still dumfounded. And today when the Amish told them that they had went to the killers relatives and told them that they forgave' their son. The secular media and others had to pick their jaws up off the floor. This hard for some Christians to get. And the world' is another story. If those were my children' I wonder how I would have acted

Oh, it has world changing power.

Remember the effect of Gordon Wilson's forgiving words in Northern Ireland? After an IRA bomb blew up there killing eleven people including his daughter while he lay in the rubble with her, he forgave. Loyalist paramilitaries were ready to retaliate but after the BBC interviewed Gordon everyone was left stunned.

He said: "She held my hand tightly, and gripped me as hard as she could. She said, 'Daddy, I love you very much.' Those were her exact words to me, and those were the last words I ever heard her say. But I bear no ill will. I bear no grudge. Dirty sort of talk is not going to bring her back to life. She was a great wee lassie. She loved her profession. She was a pet. She's dead. She's in heaven and we shall meet again."

There was no retaliation, the impact of those words were more powerful than any others in twenty-five years of violence in Northern Ireland.

 

[John the Baptist]

I think that some might be missing the point on forgiveness and love and justice?

Because it takes a while to travel the road from the start (top) of ones birth to the end (bottom) of ones life, I like to use the 300ft. up water tower as a object lesson. We are dying from the moment of being born. And we can quicken its end in many ways. Sin does this, I think most will agree?

OK: On the way down from the top to the bottom, lets say that I repent of the thing that has been done. (you name the thing???) Now, lets just say that it takes perhaps an average of 75 years to hit bottom, but we all will make the grade, huh? (first death only)

As I said, we can shorten life! But lets say that I was this killer? Now, does the question about me getting to the bottom (first death) have anything to do with me being forgiven by you??? Or the Godhead?

Sure, I can repent, and many of us do repent, and we have the documented Truth that we can be forgiven and have eternal life, but will I not hit the bottom & become a splattered blob?? Or, does God say that I am forgiven, and that 'I will not surely die' this first death?

And would you rather know when you were to die (hit bottom) & be executed, or would you rather not have years to repent upon knowing your execution date? (and no, I am not suggesting anyone sin or shorten their life! but quite the opposite! Ezekiel 18:24 's Second Death)

Now, what is the difference of me being a killer seeking forgiveness of God, or my shortening my life by other means, such as drinking & smoking, drugs, Aids or whatever?

About the only difference is that murder carries a little quicker death sentence perhaps? And that might depend on some posters here setting on my jury in judgement? So, is justified execution not LOVE? I suggest that one study a little more on Luke 12:47-48 about a LOVING AGAPE GODHEAD! Sure, it is Their strange act, yet, Justified execution of the guilty is not the opposite of Love!
And, does the Godhead have another Eternal Covenant & Everlasting Gospel for the ones who do not repent?

Just some thought questions to think on?? Oh' one more! :wink:

We are told that the Revelation 3:16-17 ones will be 'Spewed Out' if they are Lukewarm, (in LOVE) right? So, what happens to the ones who die Lukewarm???? And I question if most living today even have any idea how the Godhead view 'Presumptous' sins? (open flagrant sin) See the K.J. Psalms 19:13 for what leads into the "Great Transgression". So, what kind of Love does the Godhead require, easy sick love, or the total package requiring tough Love as well? See 1 Corinthians 6:2-5 & Obadiah 1:16

---John