The Written Word

[Soul man]

The written word of God is one of the priceless possessions of every born-again believer. The word is the unfolding of all of the revelation concerning the majesty and grace of the Father as it is revealed in the Son. All the facts about heaven and earth, sin and salvation, angels and Satan, life-and-death, future and past are wrapped up in the word.
The word is not only written Scriptures, for written Scriptures can be interpreted and translated by man anyway he sees fit, but the true word is a person. The Scripture is the written record of that person, for Jesus said all Scriptures testify of Him. Furthermore, Paul said, in 2nd Timothy 3:16–17,
" all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Paul's declaration means that Jesus Christ as the word is profitable for every idea and suggestion of life. There is nothing that has to do with life, or eternity, or God that can be separated from the person of Jesus Christ.
Therefore if we read the Scriptures, we must see Him who is the word, for the scriptures clearly declare from God the Christ who is all and in all.
The word of God is a title deed to all that the Christian possesses in Christ. It is a covenant guarantee from God that has been sealed in heaven.
It is God saying, in a legal sense, It is written, 1st John 5:13 says,
" these things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the son of God."

As the first Adam transmitted what he was to those who were born after the flesh, so the last Adam transmits what he is to those who are born of the incorruptible seed. The Christians standing is in Christ, and there will be no fall in the last Adam.
He is as secure as God can make him, for the preservation of the believer is not conditioned by any thought which he has about the matter. His position is according to the purpose of God. I have not been saved by my own merit, nor am I kept saved by mine own works. It was by Christ and his work on the cross that I was saved, and it is now by Christ in me, who is my life, that I remain saved.

 

[Nathan]

Soul man, I was right on track with you and was thinking I was going to "like" the post(I only do that when I really like a post, not just kind of like it) - then your last paragraph threw me off.

You explained how Jesus is the word. The word we have in print to read. Then, in the last paragraph, it seems you lead the thought process to think that what you wrote in the last paragraph is what people will find written in the Bible?

You might believe the things you wrote in the last paragraph, but you wont find those things written in the Bible - as you wrote them.

One phrase you wrote is what has me most bewildered. "The Christians standing is in Christ, and there will be no fall in the last Adam."

If you were speaking to a crowd of people, and someone spoke up and said; "where do you find this written in the Bible?" What would be your answer?

 

[Jim Parker]

The word is not only written Scriptures, for written Scriptures can be interpreted and translated by man anyway he sees fit, but the true word is a person. The Scripture is the written record of that person, for Jesus said all Scriptures testify of Him. Furthermore, Paul said, in 2nd Timothy 3:16–17,
" all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Paul's declaration means that Jesus Christ as the word is profitable for every idea and suggestion of life.

Sorry.
That is wrong.
Jesus is the LOGOS of God. "LOGOS" is translated into English as "word." In the Greek, "LOGOS" includes the meanings of "wisdom", "reason", and "action."
At 2 Tim 3:16, "Word" is "GRAPHE". It means, "a written word" or "scripture."

The two words, LOGOS and GRAPHE a have entirely different meanings.

You have erroneously made them synonyms.

iakov the fool

 

[Soul man]

Soul man, I was right on track with you and was thinking I was going to "like" the post(I only do that when I really like a post, not just kind of like it) - then your last paragraph threw me off.

You explained how Jesus is the word. The word we have in print to read. Then, in the last paragraph, it seems you lead the thought process to think that what you wrote in the last paragraph is what people will find written in the Bible?

You might believe the things you wrote in the last paragraph, but you wont find those things written in the Bible - as you wrote them.

One phrase you wrote is what has me most bewildered. "The Christians standing is in Christ, and there will be no fall in the last Adam."

If you were speaking to a crowd of people, and someone spoke up and said; "where do you find this written in the Bible?" What would be your answer?

Thanks, think about what you are asking. In Adam all fell, in Christ there will never be a fall.
You may be looking at it as Christians never fall, fail, sin, fall short, am I reading your question right.
At some point believers must rightly divide scripture, as well as separating soul and spirit.
We know there is a thread (pun intended) running through scripture, that gives a Christian his perfect completeness. The believers Union with Christ is his everything, all coming from the cross.
We are are perfect (spirit) because we have been joined too the perfect one, "he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit."
All sins come from soul, unrenewed mind, areas of the mind that have not been renewed.
We have areas that are renewed and areas that are not, hence the world (schoolhouse) Gal. 4:1-2.
The Father uses all of this (world) to bring us to Christ as well as teach us Christ as believers.
Christ is our life now, we have no life of our own, Gal. 2:20.
That has to resonate with the believer or they will (in mind-soul, thinking only) remain a self-unto-self.
Basically the believer thinks he is just a you-you and somehow, somewhere Christ was attached in some kind of a process.
That is an erroneous way of seeing our salvation and the cross.
Scriptures referr to the spirit of error, anything to keep the believer from seeing the completeness they have "in Christ."
We are born again through the blood Jesus shed on the cross, the moment we believe.

 

[Nathan]

Gotcha, I did not think the post all the way through. Like I said, it did confuse me at the end because the rest of it was so on track. However, my mind and eyes played tricks on me. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Soul man]

Sorry.
That is wrong.
Jesus is the LOGOS of God. "LOGOS" is translated into English as "word." In the Greek, "LOGOS" includes the meanings of "wisdom", "reason", and "action."
At 2 Tim 3:16, "Word" is "GRAPHE". It means, "a written word" or "scripture."

The two words, LOGOS and GRAPHE a have entirely different meanings.

You have erroneously made them synonyms.

iakov the fool

One of the reasons I personally stay away from the Greek and Hebrew if possible and take it as it is written.
It has been messed with so much by intelligence's, believers have a hard time clarifying anything.
They spend their time trying to study it out and get lost in it. Never coming to any kind of a conclusion.
Normal for people to do that, we love knowledge, but that can only take you so far, revelation has to take over.

John 1:1, 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Jim Parker]

One of the reasons I personally stay away from the Greek and Hebrew if possible and take it as it is written.

The Greek IS how the NT was written. It wasn't written in modern English.

It has been messed with so much by intelligence's, believers have a hard time clarifying anything.

It has been translated by people ("intelligences") who have thoroughly learned the ancient languages and are, therefore, qualified to do translation. If believers have a hard time, there are plenty of resources available to assist. (Concordances, Lexicons, commentaries)

They spend their time trying to study it out and get lost in it. Never coming to any kind of a conclusion.
Normal for people to do that, we love knowledge, but that can only take you so far, revelation has to take over.

If you are attempting to make the case that "revelation" has compensated for your lack of training in Koine of Greek, you have failed.

When you refer to the written word, the proper term is "γραφή" (GRAPHE). as in: "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," (2Ti 3:16)

When you refer to the Word who is the eternal Son of God, the proper term is "λόγος" (LOGOS) as in: "In the beginning was the Word, (λόγος LOGOS) and the Word (λόγος LOGOS) was with God, and the Word (λόγος LOGOS) was God." (Jhn 1:1)

From the Blue Letter Bible (an on-line resource):
In John, (logos) denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.

And, yes, it can be confusing since Paul used LOGOS rather then GRAPHE when advising Timothy to "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word (LOGOS) of truth." (2 Tim 2:15) In this Paul is (as I understand) referring to the revelation of Jesus (God the LOGOS in flesh) as the way, the truth, and the life (Jhn 14:6) by Whom all men must come to the Father.

In fact Paul regularly uses the word "LOGOS" to refer to scripture. (go figure! ) HE also uses the word "rhema" (ῥῆμα).

I was addressing only your equating Jesus (God the Logos incarnate) with the written word of scripture (Graphe) in your OP saying: "The word is not only written Scriptures, for written Scriptures can be interpreted and translated by man anyway he sees fit, but the true word is a person."

My intention was to inform you so that you could learn something which you apparently had not had opportunity to do and to avoid the error in the future.
The information is yours to do with as you wish.

Have a nice day.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Soul man]

The Greek IS how the NT was written. It wasn't written in modern English.

It has been translated by people ("intelligences") who have thoroughly learned the ancient languages and are, therefore, qualified to do translation. If believers have a hard time, there are plenty of resources available to assist. (Concordances, Lexicons, commentaries)

If you are attempting to make the case that "revelation" has compensated for your lack of training in Koine of Greek, you have failed.

When you refer to the written word, the proper term is "γραφή" (GRAPHE). as in: "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," (2Ti 3:16)

When you refer to the Word who is the eternal Son of God, the proper term is "λόγος" (LOGOS) as in: "In the beginning was the Word, (λόγος LOGOS) and the Word (λόγος LOGOS) was with God, and the Word (λόγος LOGOS) was God." (Jhn 1:1)

From the Blue Letter Bible (an on-line resource):
In John, (logos) denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.

And, yes, it can be confusing since Paul used LOGOS rather then GRAPHE when advising Timothy to "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word (LOGOS) of truth." (2 Tim 2:15) In this Paul is (as I understand) referring to the revelation of Jesus (God the LOGOS in flesh) as the way, the truth, and the life (Jhn 14:6) by Whom all men must come to the Father.

In fact Paul regularly uses the word "LOGOS" to refer to scripture. (go figure! ) HE also uses the word "rhema" (ῥῆμα).

I was addressing only your equating Jesus (God the Logos incarnate) with the written word of scripture (Graphe) in your OP saying: "The word is not only written Scriptures, for written Scriptures can be interpreted and translated by man anyway he sees fit, but the true word is a person."

My intention was to inform you so that you could learn something which you apparently had not had opportunity to do and to avoid the error in the future.
The information is yours to do with as you wish.

Have a nice day.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

Exactly, why would anyone need to retranslate the already translated word of God.
Read it like they wrote it, you can go to the Greek and Hebrew, but every little jot and tittle, you are asking for trouble.
You get a bunch of mad scientists running around shouting the walls down and we call them scholars, theologian's, learned man.
Most of them can't even agree, I'll pass.

 

[Jim Parker]

Exactly, why would anyone need to retranslate the already translated word of God.
Read it like they wrote it, you can go to the Greek and Hebrew, but every little jot and tittle, you are asking for trouble.
You get a bunch of mad scientists running around shouting the walls down and we call them scholars, theologian's, learned man.
Most of them can't even agree, I'll pass.

No, soul man, you fail miserably.
You have slandered every scholar because you have no scholarship yourself.
Just because you can't figure something out doesn't mean it's not true.
You have exalted ignorance over knowledge.

 

[OzSpen]

One of the reasons I personally stay away from the Greek and Hebrew if possible and take it as it is written.
It has been messed with so much by intelligence's, believers have a hard time clarifying anything.

Soul man,

Do you know koine Greek and Hebrew grammar?

You can only take it as it is written if you know the original languages of Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek.

What is the meaning of 'intelligence's'?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Exactly, why would anyone need to retranslate the already translated word of God.
Read it like they wrote it, you can go to the Greek and Hebrew, but every little jot and tittle, you are asking for trouble.
You get a bunch of mad scientists running around shouting the walls down and we call them scholars, theologian's, learned man.
Most of them can't even agree, I'll pass.

You wouldn't have a translated Bible if it were not for linguistic scholars! Do you get it?

You say most of these scholars, theologians (not theologian's) and learned men can't agree. That sounds much like the posters on this forum and other forums on which I've participated over the years.

If we are reasonable people who know how to reason, we can expect that when we are discussing controversial issues (e.g. written word vs the word as person and the various Greek words used), we can expect some banter back and forth about the meaning of a statement, paragraph, chapter, etc.

That happens even among published journalists who are publishing extensively.

Oz

 

[Soul man]

I

You wouldn't have a translated Bible if it were not for linguistic scholars! Do you get it?

You say most of these scholars, theologians (not theologian's) and learned men can't agree. That sounds much like the posters on this forum and other forums on which I've participated over the years.

If we are reasonable people who know how to reason, we can expect that when we are discussing controversial issues (e.g. written word vs the word as person and the various Greek words used), we can expect some banter back and forth about the meaning of a statement, paragraph, chapter, etc.

That happens even among published journalists who are publishing extensively.

Oz[/QUOT

I'm not talking about the original translators But our new translators through the years.
I believe there is a place for them, but I also believe alot of confusion can come from the educated mind.
If believers choose to educate themselves that way, but revelation has to come from the HolySpirit.
Yes He speakes to us by using men at times, so why not stay with the one He chose to bring in the age of grace, the Apostle Paul.
Paul gives us everything we need to know. The biggest thing he does is allow believers to read their bible with understanding.
No matter where we go to read we will understand.
Understanding is the key to knowing your bible, understanding will unlock the scriptures to the believer.
Without it Christians can only grow to the amount of revelation they receive. When we stop receiving understanding, growth is slowed.

 

[Soul man]

Soul man,

Do you know koine Greek and Hebrew grammar?

You can only take it as it is written if you know the original languages of Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek.

What is the meaning of 'intelligence's'?

Oz

I'll clarify, I do not run to a (whatever your choice) concordance to try to understand the meaning of a word, that is my point.

 

[Soul man]

It's just a personal matter now. Does a concordance help, yes. I spent my time in them, I still go to them at times just not as much.
They are on the money, but me putting my touch on the original, no, not anymore.

 

[OzSpen]

It's just a personal matter now. Does a concordance help, yes. I spent my time in them, I still go to them at times just not as much.
They are on the money, but me putting my touch on the original, no, not anymore.

If we don't understand the meaning of a word in English, we go to a dictionary. In Greek and Hebrew, these are called lexicons. We go to them to help with the meaning of words in these foreign languages.

We need to understand the grammar of these languages to better understand how to translate phrases and sentences.

Oz