Things about Moses

[Lewis]

Five things you didn’t know about Moses
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/14/five-things-you-didnt-know-about-moses/?hpt=hp_t3

 

[reba]

TRUTH according to CNN

 

[Lewis]

TRUTH according to CNN

Yeah I know

 

[AirDancer]

Grief! The jabs and pokes at Christianity continue. CNN is probably proud

 

[Deborah13]

TRUTH according to CNN

And the truth according to the Yale Divinity School

"Joel S. Baden is the author of “The Historical David: The Real Life of an Invented Hero” and an associate professor of Old Testament at Yale Divinity School. The views expressed in this column belong to Baden. "

 

[TOG]

Here's something interesting...

5. Moses didn’t write the Torah.

Despite the well-established Jewish and Christian tradition, the Torah never says, or even remotely suggests, that Moses wrote it.
(snip)
The verse in Deuteronomy that states that “Moses wrote down this Torah” isn’t proof that he actually wrote the Torah. Again: He’s a character, and in any case he’s taking dictation, not composing anything himself.

(Emphasis by TOG)

So, there's nothing in the Torah that says Moses wrote it... well... except for the verse that says Moses wrote it. But that doesn't mean Moses wrote it. It means... something else.

The TOG​

 

[TOG]

1. Moses was probably Egyptian.
Moses was born in Egypt and raised as an Egyptian in the royal household, but he was born a Hebrew. There's noting unusual about his name. It was given to him by an Egyptian, so it's an Egyptian name.

2. Moses wasn’t anti-slavery.
That depends on what you mean by "slavery". When people talk about slavery and what the Bible says about it, they are usually thinking about slavery the way it was practiced in the southern United States in the mid 19th century. In all of human history, slaves have never been treated as badly as they were at that time. The slavery of the Bible was completely different. Slavery was a fact of life at that time, but the rules about the treatment of slaves are such that I'm sure that Moses would have been against the slavery of the mid 19th century, if anything remotely similar to that had ever entered his mind.

3. Moses had a black wife.
This one is probably true. The Bible says he had an Ethiopian wife and in all likelihood she was black.

4. Moses didn’t come up with a single law.
This one is also true. That's why I don't like the term "law of Moses". All the commandments came from God, so it's God's law.

5. Moses didn’t write the Torah.
I don't know why they put this one in. They themselves point to a verse that says that he did write it. The only part Moses couldn't have written is the part about his death.

The TOG​

 

[TOG]

TOG, where does it say he wrote it. I am interested to know.

Then Moses wrote this law and gave it to the priests, the sons of Levi, who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel. And Moses commanded them, “At the end of every seven years, at the set time in the year of release, at the Feast of Booths, when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God at the place that he will choose, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing. Assemble the people, men, women, and little ones, and the sojourner within your towns, that they may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God, and be careful to do all the words of this law, and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God, as long as you live in the land that you are going over the Jordan to possess.” (Deu. 31:9-13 ESV​

If the Torah is the first 5 books, that would include deuteronomy?, the end of deuteronomy talks about his passing. So how can he talk about himself when had already passed away?.

I am interested to know.

Like I said above, the part about his death is the only part Moses couldn't have written. That was obviously added later. It proves nothing about the rest. Another part that bothers some people is the events that happened before Moses was born, such as the creation and the flood. Those things were most likely handed down from the people that experienced them, either orally or written, and Moses compiled them into the book of Genesis. The beginning of the book of Exodus happens about the time Moses was born. he could have heard of those things from eye witnesses.

The TOG​

 

[Deborah13]

1. Moses was probably Egyptian.
Moses was born in Egypt and raised as an Egyptian in the royal household, but he was born a Hebrew. There's noting unusual about his name. It was given to him by an Egyptian, so it's an Egyptian name.

2. Moses wasn’t anti-slavery.
That depends on what you mean by "slavery". When people talk about slavery and what the Bible says about it, they are usually thinking about slavery the way it was practiced in the southern United States in the mid 19th century. In all of human history, slaves have never been treated as badly as they were at that time. The slavery of the Bible was completely different. Slavery was a fact of life at that time, but the rules about the treatment of slaves are such that I'm sure that Moses would have been against the slavery of the mid 19th century, if anything remotely similar to that had ever entered his mind.

3. Moses had a black wife.
This one is probably true. The Bible says he had an Ethiopian wife and in all likelihood she was black.

4. Moses didn’t come up with a single law.
This one is also true. That's why I don't like the term "law of Moses". All the commandments came from God, so it's God's law.

5. Moses didn’t write the Torah.
I don't know why they put this one in. They themselves point to a verse that says that he did write it. The only part Moses couldn't have written is the part about his death.

The TOG​

It seems to me that the slaves both Hebrew and non, were treated better than some parents treat their kids. They only quoted one verse about what happens when a master hurts a slave.

 

[jasonc]

TOG, it says he wrote down the laws, sure, but the way the entire books are written and set out, its like it has been all put together by some other author. Like in rev for example it says 'I john, seen these things'. So its obvious someone named 'John' is the original of that writing.

Why does it say something ' Now moses was tending the flock'... instead of.... ' And i, moses, was tending the flock' or something like that?

'Then moses was told'... why not.... 'then i was told', or "then i, moses was told'

Its like someone is talking and writing about him.

third person, paul had a scribe, its possible that moses had one as well. also remember that the torah(613 laws ) were written by god on the tablets that broke and also the other ones.

 

[Edward]

Then Moses wrote this law and gave it to the priests, the sons of Levi, who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel. And Moses commanded them, “At the end of every seven years, at the set time in the year of release, at the Feast of Booths, when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God at the place that he will choose, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing. Assemble the people, men, women, and little ones, and the sojourner within your towns, that they may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God, and be careful to do all the words of this law, and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God, as long as you live in the land that you are going over the Jordan to possess.” (Deu. 31:9-13 ESV​

Like I said above, the part about his death is the only part Moses couldn't have written. That was obviously added later. It proves nothing about the rest. Another part that bothers some people is the events that happened before Moses was born, such as the creation and the flood. Those things were most likely handed down from the people that experienced them, either orally or written, and Moses compiled them into the book of Genesis. The beginning of the book of Exodus happens about the time Moses was born. he could have heard of those things from eye witnesses.

The TOG​

So Moses wasn't there for the creation, so couldn't have written about it? Uh, why not? Or even about his death? Why not? Did not the Lord give visions, or otherwise take men in the spirit to other times to see what was or will happen? Plus, if the bible is the inspired word of God (and also seems to have many codes and so forth in it), it is highly likely to have been dictated to Moses (and the other authors of the books) word for word.

So what if he wrote about his death. God told others in scripture when or how they would die also. We can't forget that, lol.

 

[jasonc]

its not. Abraham didn't know the name of god. moses said that.

Jehovah-jireh et all something moses said. Abraham called God el-shaddai. but we digress. I will address some of that in the up coming genesis thread.

 

[TOG]

TOG, it says he wrote down the laws, sure, but the way the entire books are written and set out, its like it has been all put together by some other author. Like in rev for example it says 'I john, seen these things'. So its obvious someone named 'John' is the original of that writing.

Why does it say something ' Now moses was tending the flock'... instead of.... ' And i, moses, was tending the flock' or something like that?

'Then moses was told'... why not.... 'then i was told', or "then i, moses was told'

Its like someone is talking and writing about him.

At that time I said to you, ‘I am not able to bear you by myself. The Lord your God has multiplied you, and behold, you are today as numerous as the stars of heaven. May the Lord, the God of your fathers, make you a thousand times as many as you are and bless you, as he has promised you! How can I bear by myself the weight and burden of you and your strife? Choose for your tribes wise, understanding, and experienced men, and I will appoint them as your heads.’ And you answered me, ‘The thing that you have spoken is good for us to do.’ So I took the heads of your tribes, wise and experienced men, and set them as heads over you, commanders of thousands, commanders of hundreds, commanders of fifties, commanders of tens, and officers, throughout your tribes. And I charged your judges at that time, ‘Hear the cases between your brothers, and judge righteously between a man and his brother or the alien who is with him. You shall not be partial in judgment. You shall hear the small and the great alike. You shall not be intimidated by anyone, for the judgment is God's. And the case that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.’ And I commanded you at that time all the things that you should do. (Deu. 1:9-18 ESV)
​

Apparently, he did both. Granted, it is mainly in the third person. I'm no expert, but I would think that's just his style of writing. Another possibility is that Moses wrote it, and later a copyist changed it to the third person, because it made more sense to the people of a later time, after Moses was gone. There are a lot of things that nobody but Moses could have known, such as the things that happened when he was alone with God on Mt. Sinai.

The TOG​

 

[Lewis]

TOG, where does it say he wrote it. I am interested to know. If the Torah is the first 5 books, that would include deuteronomy?, the end of deuteronomy talks about his passing. So how can he talk about himself when had already passed away?.

I am interested to know.

I always heard that Joshua finished the last part after Moses death.