Bible Study This Son of Mine was Dead and Has Come to Life Again!

[Tenchi]

Luke 15:20-24 (NASB)
20 "So he got up and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off,
his father saw him and felt compassion for him,
and ran and embraced him and kissed him.
21 "And the son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven
and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'
22 "But the father said to his slaves, 'Quickly bring out the best robe
and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet;
23 and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate;
24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again;
he was lost and has been found.' And they began to celebrate.
​

God wants fellowship with us, not merely to be related to us as our Heavenly Father (2 Corinthians 13:14; 1 John 1:3). The above quotation from the Gospel of Luke is a great depiction both of God's heart toward His children and the difference between relationship and fellowship. Though the Prodigal Son was always his father's child, not until he returned home in repentance and humility, willing to serve in his father's house, was he embraced, clothed in new robes, his return celebrated. Wandering from his father in rebellion and self-will, wasting his inheritance in profligate living, the son was entirely cut-off from the sort of experience of his father that he enjoyed upon his return from "a far country."

When the Christian yields to sin, to the rule of Self rather than the rule of the Holy Spirit, they cease to be able to enjoy fellowship with their Heavenly Father. Unfortunately, many Christians have no idea that it is fellowship, not mere relationship, that God intends they should enjoy with Himself. They have no idea that it is the joy of fellowship with Him, the delight of intimate, loving communion with God through the Holy Spirit, that is supposed to be the driving force, the fundamental motivation, for all they are, and do, as a Christian.

Revelation 3:20 (NASB)
20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Psalm 16:11 (NASB)
11 You will make known to me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; In Your right hand there are pleasures forever.

Psalm 36:7-9 (NASB)
7 How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God! And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Your wings.
8 They drink their fill of the abundance of Your house; And You give them to drink of the river of Your delights.
9 For with You is the fountain of life; In Your light we see light.

Matthew 22:36-38 (NASB)
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
38 "This is the great and foremost commandment.

Instead, many Christians resort to institutional relations with God, "connecting" with Him through the rituals, teachings, and sacraments of their church. Or they take up a fierce intellectual affinity for the philosophy, doctrines and practices of the faith, defending the Truth of Christianity vigorously though never encountering God directly and transformatively. Or they settle into a grey, flat, frustrating cycle of sin>confession>sin>confession, over and over trying to "do the right thing" but coming repeatedly to a place of exhaustion and moral/spiritual failure, wondering why their life as a Christian (and the lives of those Christians around them) is so tepid and hypocritical, assuming eventually that such an experience is just "the normal Christian life."

These are all counterfeits of what God offers to us in reconciliation to Himself through Jesus Christ - if they replace or exclude direct, personal fellowship with God. Attend carefully to the practices, doctrines and commands of the faith; be well-prepared to "give an answer" for your trust in Christ; desire a holy life and strive in the power of the Spirit to obtain it; but before all of these things, as the necessary ground from which they all ought to spring, is personal, direct fellowship with God.

Without this fellowship, there is no actual "walking with God," only the outward form of Christian living, mere adoption into God's family, not the intimate communion He intends we should enjoy with Him all the time. And without this fellowship, there is not the proper motivation for turning from Self and Sin, from the inducements of the World, and from the temptations of the devil. As a result, the sin that always lies at the door of our lives, slithers in and poisons everything, "killing" our deep enjoyment of God first of all, while blinding, deafening, hardening and corrupting us.

Because few Christians ever have the opportunity to enjoy fellowship with God, because they are never taught that such a thing is supposed to be the basis for their life as a follower of Jesus Christ, they do not notice the absence of fellowship with their Heavenly Father and soon find false replacements for it: Self-effort, religious intellectualism, liturgical ritual, moralistic hypocrisy. These things can never produce the "abundant life," the "fruit of the Spirit," the deep, over-riding desire for God, for Christ, that are the spiritual birthright of every child of God (John 10:10; John 4:14; Galatians 5:22-23; Romans 8:29; Philippians 3:7-10). They lead, not to God, but to religious Self and thus to regular spiritual defeat (that is carefully hidden from view).

If you want what the Bible tells us we can all have with God, if you want more than the mud and foul corn husks of the pigpen in a far country, then return to the Father in humility, submission and repentance and continue with Him in this way. As you do, the door of your heart stands open to the Holy Spirit who will enter and transform you, convicting you, teaching you, strengthening you, comforting you, glorifying God in you, and transforming you and in all of these things communing with you intimately and directly. (John 16:8; John 14:26; John 16:13-14; Ephesians 3:16; Philippians 2:13; Philippians 4:13; 2 Corinthians 1:3-5; Galatians 5:22-23; 2 Corinthians 3:18, etc.)

1 John 1:3-4 (NASB)
3 ...our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. ​

 

[Tenchi]

Bump.

 

[eddif]

I am glad you bumped your thread. When I make some comments,the comments are to expand the topic. And, the expansion goes all the way into eternity future.

I agree God wants a close relationship with the Godhead. Previous to the coming of Jesus, there was a relationship God had with the Old Testament saints. Especially the saints that were killed because of their relationship with God.

We can now have a closer relationship with The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

The last trump will also move us to our ultimate state of relationship. Those final changes have not happened yet. The expectation of final changes encourages us.

Mississippi redneck
eddif.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Tenchi
What is the direction of this thread?
Of course most everyone here agrees with you.

 

[Tenchi]

We can now have a closer relationship with The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

Hi Tenchi
What is the direction of this thread?
Of course most everyone here agrees with you.

I wish it were my experience that "most everyone agrees" with the OP of this thread. Instead, the majority of those I encounter within the Church not only don't enjoy daily, intimate communion - fellowship - with God, they don't know what it is, nor do they believe it's actually possible. And so, I write out of this experience, suspecting that what is true in my personal experience is more widely the case in Christendom.

I asked a fellow once what he meant when he said, "I walk with Jesus every day."

His puzzled response was: "I read the Bible, and pray, and go to church."

As you might imagine, I was surprised that this was the sum-total of what he thought it was to "walk with Jesus." I pointed out to him that he had described only what he was doing, not what God was doing in and through him. I pressed him to explain what his experience of God was and how he was sure what he thought was God actually was. The fellow became...agitated, his puzzlement deepening, and admitted he didn't know how to answer.

This exchange was, and still is, a sad thing to me. There is so much God intends to give to us in Himself, so much goodness, and love, and joy! But His children institutionalize knowing Him, or hyper-sensualize doing so, or just assume their isn't any real, actual communion they can have with God.

Anyway, these were some of the things that prompted this thread.

May I ask: What's your experience with God been like? Do you think you're enjoying genuine fellowship with Him?

 

[GodsGrace]

I wish it were my experience that "most everyone agrees" with the OP of this thread. Instead, the majority of those I encounter within the Church not only don't enjoy daily, intimate communion - fellowship - with God, they don't know what it is, nor do they believe it's actually possible. And so, I write out of this experience, suspecting that what is true in my personal experience is more widely the case in Christendom.

I asked a fellow once what he meant when he said, "I walk with Jesus every day."

His puzzled response was: "I read the Bible, and pray, and go to church."

I think we all have a different type of relationship.
I think a person that reads the bible, prays and goes to church has a desire to be close to God.

For instance, I don't think I'm as close to God as Teresa of Avila was, and never will I be.
But I know I'm as close as I can be, as far as I'm concerned.

I think you might be referring to those that go to church and have NO relationship with Jesus.
Then I would agree with you that they might believe they're serving God, but really are not.

As you might imagine, I was surprised that this was the sum-total of what he thought it was to "walk with Jesus." I pointed out to him that he had described only what he was doing, not what God was doing in and through him. I pressed him to explain what his experience of God was and how he was sure what he thought was God actually was. The fellow became...agitated, his puzzlement deepening, and admitted he didn't know how to answer.

Many Christians are not well-versed in their faith.
We have to remember that God sees the heart, not only our "walk".
Generally speaking I'd have to agree with you.

This exchange was, and still is, a sad thing to me. There is so much God intends to give to us in Himself, so much goodness, and love, and joy! But His children institutionalize knowing Him, or hyper-sensualize doing so, or just assume their isn't any real, actual communion they can have with God.

Or maybe they just feel the world more than they feel God.
This doesn't mean they aren't aware of Him at all.
But if I understand you, it's the closeness of God that they're missing...
the joy of knowing Him as a person,
of having a life more abundant.

Anyway, these were some of the things that prompted this thread.

May I ask: What's your experience with God been like? Do you think you're enjoying genuine fellowship with Him?

ITHINK I am. But as I said above, I'm sure some are closer to God than I am.
I am, however, enjoying very much knowing Him the best I can.
To me, walking with God just means acknowledging Him all the time.
I can't think of a long period in any given day that I don't think and ponder on His love for us.
To me God is part of my day and life.
I hope these thoughts of mine, directed at Him, are like a prayer going to Him that returns to me with blessings.
I just feel so fortunate to have encountered Jesus when I was about 28 years old.

 

[eddif]

May I ask: What's your experience with God been like? Do you think you're enjoying genuine fellowship with Him?

The relationship has come with warnings and direction.

The major warning is never promote something that makes others think they can not achieve what God is doing in their lives.

We are all individuals. The person who is in bondage to the world is able to live their life duty as a service to God. The free person can give their life to God.

I feel a lot like the rod and staff comfort / direct me. If I seek knowledge, 3? physical things can happen, a number of scriptures will open, and some temptations will appear. God has placed his treasure in earthern vessels to show the transcendent power belongs to God and not man.

Keeps me aware of who I am. I also (as mentioned earlier) know more changes come at the last trump,

The spiritual gifts are for today. Realizing who we are (wretched) is also part of the fellowship.

Mississippi tedneck
eddif

 

[Tenchi]

I think we all have a different type of relationship.
I think a person that reads the bible, prays and goes to church has a desire to be close to God.

Yes, we all journey with God in our own unique circumstances. But the God with whom we journey is the same across-the-board with all of His children. As a result, there will be universal distinctives, things that are true among all of God's children, in their experience of Him. God says as much to us in His word. All of His children will encounter a God of Light (1 John 1:5; John 1:4), who convicts them of sin, righteousness and judgment (John16:8); all of His children will be conformed to Christ (Romans 8:29) more and more; all of God's own will experience Him as a God of Truth, holiness, and grace (John 14:6; 1 Peter 1:15-16; 1 Peter 5:10, etc.), and so on.

In some cases, a person who reads the Bible, prays and attends church may have a desire to be close to God, but I've encountered many believers throughout my life who do all of these things simply because "it's the right thing to do." These activities are religious rituals securing their eternal destiny, not features of their personal, direct interaction with God. They perform these rituals because the mouth of hell yawns beneath them, they believe, and will finally devour them, if they don't. Or they're in a community of believers who would look askance at them if they didn't perform these Christian rituals. And so on.

For instance, I don't think I'm as close to God as Teresa of Avila was, and never will I be.
But I know I'm as close as I can be, as far as I'm concerned.

You know, I don't think it's a matter of "closeness" but of the fullness of one's experience of God. To all of His children, God is as close as thought, right? The Holy Spirit can't possibly be any closer to any of God's children than he is at the moment he makes of them his eternal "temple" (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). What remains is for the life of the Spirit to fill every corner of the "house" of the believer's life, occupying them to overflowing with himself. Such "occupation" varies among believers, the degree to which the Spirit has control over an individual believer is not uniform, but his proximity to them cannot be increased; he cannot more within them than he is at the first moment he takes up residence with in them.

I think you might be referring to those that go to church and have NO relationship with Jesus.
Then I would agree with you that they might believe they're serving God, but really are not.

The modern western Church is more infiltrated by such people perhaps than ever before. Rick Warren's "seeker-sensitive" approach to church life has loaded the Church with the unconverted who, empty of the Holy Spirit, attempt to participate in life that is only possible by his indwelling. As a result, there are many sources of spiritually-unregenerate "leaven" that have crowded into the Church (1 Corinthians 5:6; Galatians 5:9), poisoning and weakening it powerfully.

But, there are also "carnal Christians," the ones Paul described in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, and the ignorant and spiritually-childish believers the writer of Hebrews described in Hebrews 5:12-13 and the lukewarm, nearly dead, spiritually naked, poor and blind born-again children of God whom the Spirit, through the apostle John, described in Revelation 2-3. These all are truly converted but living in morally and spiritually compromised - carnal - ways. None of them, then, you can be sure, are pressing eagerly into fellowship with God.

Many Christians are not well-versed in their faith.
We have to remember that God sees the heart, not only our "walk".
Generally speaking I'd have to agree with you.

Yes, God does see the heart of each of us - and far, far better than I am able to do. This is not necessarily a fact that encourages, however. See Jeremiah 17:9, or Matthew 15:19, or Matthew 12:35.

Or maybe they just feel the world more than they feel God.
This doesn't mean they aren't aware of Him at all.

Even the most wicked person has an awareness of God (which they've suppressed in unrighteousness - Romans 1:18-21). Having some awareness of God, then, doesn't necessarily mean a person who claims to be God's actually knows Him, or is His. The person who "feels the world" more than God may be the person John spoke of in his first letter:

1 John 2:15
15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Maybe, though, by "feel" you don't mean something as strong as "love." In any case, a person will be kept from fellowship with God when they've allowed the world to impact them too much.

But if I understand you, it's the closeness of God that they're missing...
the joy of knowing Him as a person,
of having a life more abundant.

I don't know that I'd use the term "closeness" to describe "fellowship" - or intimate communion - with God. For many, this reduces down to a feeling: If I feel God is "close" to me, then I'm enjoying fellowship with Him. In my experience talking with fellow believers on this matter, this feeling can be a sense of pleasant coziness, or comfortable happy peace, or even something akin to romantic feeling, a sentimentalism that turns Jesus into one's boyfriend. This isn't at all what the Bible describes as fellowship with God.

God is a Person, not a feeling, right? He may engender feelings in me that are positive, but they are the effects of enjoying Him, they are not God Himself. I can fellowship with God, interacting at a very intimate, very at-my-core, level with Him, without any attendant "warm fuzzies." In fact, often fellowship with Him can be painful as He works to expose and remove from my life anything that will hinder going ever-deeper with Him. But God's painful conviction and exposing illumination is just as much a part of fellowship with Him as enjoying His strengthening and comfort, a crucial part of the "abundant life" He gives to me in fellowship with Himself.

ITHINK I am. But as I said above, I'm sure some are closer to God than I am.
I am, however, enjoying very much knowing Him the best I can.

Thank God He takes the initiative with us and works in us to go beyond our capacities to enjoy Him, imparting to us supernatural ability to fellowship with Him far beyond anything we could have mustered in our own human power!

I'm glad to know that you have joy in walking with God. He is good! Very good! (Far, far better than I deserve.)

To me, walking with God just means acknowledging Him all the time.

And the Bible? What does God say to us in His word "walking with Him" is? Acknowledging Him is certainly a part. But might there be more? I tried to show that there is in my OP.

 

[Tenchi]

The relationship has come with warnings and direction.

The major warning is never promote something that makes others think they can not achieve what God is doing in their lives.

Oh? Like, say, what every one of the writers of the New Testament promoted? And Jesus too?

Matthew 5:48
48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Luke 14:33
33 "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

Matthew 16:24-25
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
25 "For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

1 Peter 1:15-16
15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
16 because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
1 John 2:4-6
4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
James 2:10
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
Anyway, if God is working in my life I am not achieving what He is doing, He is, right?

We are all individuals. The person who is in bondage to the world is able to live their life duty as a service to God. The free person can give their life to God.

Sorry, but I don't quite follow what you mean here...

Yes, we are all individuals. But our God is the same God; He doesn't change from individual to individual.

A person in bondage to the world cannot, by virtue of that bondage, live in service to God. The two things - bondage to the world and service to God - are mutually-exclusive things. See James 4:4, or 1 John 2:15, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, etc.

I feel a lot like the rod and staff comfort / direct me. If I seek knowledge, 3? physical things can happen, a number of scriptures will open, and some temptations will appear. God has placed his treasure in earthern vessels to show the transcendent power belongs to God and not man.

No good shepherd ever uses his rod/staff to beat his sheep, only to protect and guide them. This is why the Psalmist said God's rod/staff was a comfort, not source of pain. But, God does discipline His own (Hebrews 12:5-11). I can certainly understand what this is like!

Keeps me aware of who I am. I also (as mentioned earlier) know more changes come at the last trump,

I'm looking forward to it, too!

The spiritual gifts are for today. Realizing who we are (wretched) is also part of the fellowship.

Yes, and sort of. We are "new creatures in Christ," right? "Old things are passed away. Behold! All things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17) I'm a "joint-heir with Christ," a child of God, no longer a wicked wretch (Romans 8:15-16; Ephesians 2:6; Romans 6; Revelation 1:6, etc.).

Thanks for your reply!