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Untitled

JM

Member
We Christians seem to disagree about almost everything. Even when we claim to have a final authority in the Bible, some say the Pope and others Holy Tradition. Is it possible to prove your faith from BOTH history AND the Bible? [Using both to up hold your arguments.]

Just wondering.

jm
 
francisdesales does about as good a job of that as any I’ve seen. I would rather try to skin a live cat at a PETA rally. :wink:
 
JM said:
We Christians seem to disagree about almost everything.

I tend to believe that this is because we are reading the Word, then leaning on our own understanding. Or we are listening to a teacher, and leaning on their understanding.

Jer 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

How wonderful it would be to invite the Holy Spirit into the forum.

We can not pray without reading the Word. We can not read the Word without prayer.
I can not help but believe that when we disagree, that those who do pray are not humble as they pray, and asking God to correct them if they are wrong. I tend to believe that if prayer is offered on behalf of the person who disagrees, that it is more along the lines of "Correct them Lord. Make them see it the way I see it"

God will reveal the meaning in Scripture if we ask. If we do not ask Him, then we leave ourselves wide open to the enemy to twist what we have read.
 
As long as we agree on the important things:
1. That Yeshua (Jesus) is the only Begotten Son of God
2. That we follow His commandments
3. If we know that when He rose again, it was in the flesh.
And a bit more

Then does the rest really matter? I know it does to a lot of people. I can understand that. There are some ongoing arguments on this board: Whether the Sabbath is Saturday or Sunday, Total body immersion compared to sprinkling in Baptism, OSAS compared to NOSAS, and many, many more.

I just wrote in another thread that God will judge us the same way we judge others. I take that to heart; it is a teaching of Yeshua.
God Bless All on this board, All Christians, all Agnostics, and even all Atheists (though they don't believe in that;-) )
 
ChristineES wrote: And a bit more

Hmmmn.. Yup… can’t let it go. Those doctrines, the infallible, almighty, more precious than gold, worthy of all praise… carved from the rock of Christ by our own little hands. Let’s see, we have ‘unity in the body’ and ‘seeks it’s own’ left on the board… under one is your prize. And we’ll return after these important messages...

:o :-? :angel: :o :-? :angel: :o
 
Well, I only wrote "And a bit more" so people like you could fill in what was needed. :wink: :wink: :-D
 
Well, I read this OP and was going to let it go until I started to ponder it.

Well, what is see here is that there are many who preach another Jesus...
Worse yet, is that Christians are not willing to stand up to those false teachers.

Our two greatest examples of people standing up to false teachers are Jesus the Christ, and the Apostle paul. While all the appostles were activly defending the truth of the Gospel, it was Jesus who cleared out the temple and Paul who was stoned, and beaten and be-headed (as tradition says) for satnding up and preaching the truth.

This thing about judging that gets tossed around comes from bad theology and bad teaching and listening to ''seeker friendly preachers.''

Matthew 7:1-6 1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. 6 Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Ok, so what does all this mean?

Matthew 7:1-6
7:1 Sometimes these words of our Lord are misconstrued by people to prohibit all forms of judgment. No matter what happens, they piously say, “Judge not, that you be not judged. But Jesus is not teaching that we are to be undiscerning Christians. He never intended that we abandon our critical faculty or discernment. The NT has many illustrations of legitimate judgment of the condition, conduct, or teaching of others. In addition, there are several areas in which the Christian is commanded to make a decision, to discriminate between good and bad or between good and best. Some of these include:


1. When disputes arise between believers, they should be settled in the church before members who can decide the matter (1 Cor. 6:18).

2. The local church is to judge serious sins of its members and take appropriate action (Matt. 18:17; 1 Cor. 5:9-13).

3. Believers are to judge the doctrinal teaching of teachers and preachers by the Word of God (Matt. 7:15-20; 1 Cor. 14:29; 1 Jn. 4:1).

4. Christians have to discern if others are believers in order to obey Pauls command in 2 Corinthians 6:14.

5. Those in the church must judge which men have the qualifications necessary for elders and deacons (1 Tim. 3:1-13).

6. We have to discern which people are unruly, faint hearted, weak, etc., and treat them according to the instructions in the Bible (e.g., 1 Thess. 5:14).

7:2 Jesus warned that unrighteous judgment would be repaid in kind: “For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged. This principle of reaping what we sow is built into all human life and affairs. Mark applies the principle to our appropriation of the Word (4:24) and Luke applies it to our liberality in giving (6:38).

7:35 Jesus exposed our tendency to see a small fault in someone else while ignoring the same fault in ourselves. He purposely exaggerated the situation (using a figure of speech known as hyperbole) to drive home the point. Someone with a plank in his eye often finds fault with the speck in the eye of another, not even noticing his own condition. It is hypocritical to suppose that we could help someone with a fault when we ourselves have a greater fault. We must remedy our own faults before criticizing them in others.

7:6 Verse 6 proves that Jesus did not intend to forbid every kind of judgment. He warned His disciples not to give holy things to dogs or to cast ... pearls before swine . Under the Mosaic Law dogs and swine were unclean animals and here the terms are used to depict wicked people. When we meet vicious people who treat divine truths with utter contempt and respond to our preaching of the claims of Christ with abuse and violence, we are not obligated to continue to share the gospel with them. To press the matter only brings increased condemnation to the offenders.

So to summarize;

What was Jesus calling for when He ordered His followers to “judge not? Did He want us to close our eyes to error and evil? Did He intend that managers forgo critical performance reviews of their employees? Or that news editors and art critics pull their punches? Or that juries refrain from judgment? Should we decline any assessment of others, since none of us is perfect?

No, those would all be mis applications of Jesus teaching. In the first place, He was not commanding blind acceptance, but grace toward others. Since all of us are sinners, we need to stop bothering with the failings of others and start attending to serious issues of our own. His words here extend His earlier expose of hypocrisy. Don't blame or put down others while excusing or exalting yourself, Jesus was saying.

Is there room, then, to assess others, especially when we know we are not perfect? Yes, but only in Jesus way: with empathy and fairness, and with a readiness to freely and fully forgive. When we are called upon to correct others, we should act like a good doctor whose purpose is to bring healing not like an enemy who attacks.

The problem is that while most Christians will read their bibles, they don't actually study what the bible says.
I believe all Christians should study theology...

For crying out loud the athiest, agnostics and false teachers know more about the bible than most Christians.

You tell me if this is not a Sad Truth..


I made a comment to Solo that he and I are the most hated people on this board, and you know what? Its cool....We will continue to preach what the bible says..The way I see it, we are in good company. :)
 
JM said:
Is it possible to prove your faith from BOTH history AND the Bible? [Using both to up hold your arguments.

The source of history would need to be true and accurate.

The person that this proof was to be presented to would need to be on the common ground of history and the Bible, and seeking the truth.

That inspires my question.
Prove it to whom?
 
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