Warning: Most who think they believe - in - jesus do not. DEBATE

[Harbinger of truth]

Greetings in the name of Jesus. I am sorry to inform you that the Most High has blinded those who are perishing and there are many among you. Guard your heart for some may fall away due to the truth. Lies can set up false hopes, expectations, and security. So please, guard your heart. With the things I am learning, you will need to plant a seed of loyalty. Know this, many may rebel due to the truth. We must believe in the full testimony god has given about his son. Anyone who believes in a lie is calling god a liar. You are what you eat, so please avoid lies. Many shall hate me because Jesus has testified that the ways of the world is evil. Since he is the way, truth, and life, I shall do the same. See: 1 john 5:10; 1 Corinthians 15:2; 2 Corinthians 4:3, 6:1. Allow me to explain:

In the beginning god created man in his image but that man fell from the glory of god. Therefore, all have sinned and fell short of the glory of god through one man’s disobedience. Therefore, since we have fallen from the glory of god we must return, but how? We are saved by grace, through faith, which is dead, without works. Faith is trusting God no matter the circumstances. Works of the law is complete obedience to everything he commands while not turning to the right or left. Allow to me explain in greater detail. God has commanded us to keep the Royal Law which is the ten commandments summarized into two. Love is the fulfillment of the law. The law nailed to the cross in Ezekiel 20:25-26, that is the Leviticus Priesthood which made nothing perfect but brought death. That is why the law was changed back to the original, magnified, and explained in great detail to the ignorant. The Word was in the beginning, the Word was with God, the Word was God, and the Word dwelt among us. The royal law was, is, and shall be. Perfection need not change. Jesus can perfect us within the Melchizedek Priesthood for he is a High Priest forever. Be perfect, spiritually perfect, for he is the way, truth, and life.

One can believe Jesus exist without believing - in - Jesus. To “believe - in - Jesus,†one must believe he exist and be - in - Jesus. People should pay attention to what is being communicated. According to 1 John 3:24, to be - in - Jesus, one must love god. To love god is to obey god, according to John 14:21-24. What is this glory one has fallen from? Once you love God, expect to see his son. To see Jesus is to see the Father. Remember how I asked you to guard your heart? According to John 14:6-24, can you honestly say god is in you? Have you seen him? For those who see him shall be like him. How can you have the holy spirit if you have the spirit of a sinner? A spirit of falsehood? A sinner is not saved according to 1 Peter 4:18-19, 1 John 3:1-3. God is a god of the living and not the dead. Therefore God is not a God of sinners. Why is the prayers of the righteous more effective than a sinners? God is not a liar and he did say ask and receive. However, he was talking to his children. He seeks those who worship in spirit and truth but a sinner cannot do that. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit and shall eventually be cut down and cast into the fire for they have denied both the Father and Son. Are sinners not the enemies of God?

So, when does god dwell inside you? Have you seen John 14:18, I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you? According to this chapter, Jesus will come to you and make his home with you. He will be in you and you in him. This is when you are adopted as a child of God. Therefore, those who do not love God are not saved, born again, or a child of God. Sinners that commit the deadly sins do not know him, love him, or serve him. They cannot worship him for they are unworthy. Well, when you know him I believe you are sent. One must go through the gate but many seem to go around it. We must be baptised by water, spirit, and fire. Have you heard of the revelation of Paul. See: 1 John 1:1-3; 2:3-4, 27; 3:1-3; 4:6, 12-14; Romans 8:22-24; John 6:46; 7:29; 14:7, 15-18; 15:26-27; 16:7,16; 20:19-22; 1 Corinthians 2:10-12; 3:16, 8:3; 9:1; 15:6-8; Galatians 1:1, 12; 4:4-6; Ephesians 1:4-6; 3:2-5; 2 Corinthians 13:5; Hebrews 12:14; Matthew 5:8; 11:27; Mark 16:11-14; Luke 24:31-35; Lamentations 3:25; Jeremiah 12:3; Isaiah 55:5-7; 64:3-5; Psalms 17:15; 27:4,6, 8; 105:4; Job 42:5; 1 Chronicles 16:10-11; 2 Chronicles 7:13-15; 2 Kings 6:16-18; 1 samuel 3:1,7,21; Judges 13:21-23; Deuteronomy 32:20; Numbers 12:5-9; Exodus 6:2-4; 33:19-21; 34:29.

John 6:39-40 - This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.â€

 

[andymac1981]

Hi kiwidan

I don't believe you need to be baptised to be saved but The Lord commands to acts of obedience from us.

1. Baptism

2. Remembering our Lord Jesus in his own appointed way by the breaking of bread.

So if you truly believe you will want to obey The Lord and partake in each of these acts of obedience.

Being born again is when you accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your saviour. At that point you are baptised with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts you of sin and leads you to salvation so cursing the Holy Spirit is the continual rejection of the Holy Spirit thus the only unforgivable sin.

I hope these made sense, I know what I want to say but I'm not great with the written medium.

 

[andymac1981]

Communion, I have known it with several different titles and thought that might have been a widely known one sorry.

 

[Harbinger of truth]

Hi kiwidan

I don't believe you need to be baptised to be saved but The Lord commands to acts of obedience from us.

1. Baptism

2. Remembering our Lord Jesus in his own appointed way by the breaking of bread.

So if you truly believe you will want to obey The Lord and partake in each of these acts of obedience.

Being born again is when you accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your saviour. At that point you are baptised with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts you of sin and leads you to salvation so cursing the Holy Spirit is the continual rejection of the Holy Spirit thus the only unforgivable sin.

I hope these made sense, I know what I want to say but I'm not great with the written medium.

You are in error of the scriptures. Those born again do not sin. Those born again are the new wineskins in which the spirit is given. The spirit is given to those who obey. One cannot sin and obey at the same time. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. A sinner cannot please God. Yes, baptism is a must to be saved.


Baptism of water - repent and complete your repentance. Stop sinning.


Baptism of spirit - He comes to dwell inside the new creation.


Baptism of fire - The book of Job. Sufferings refines one and perfects them.


It is one Lord one baptism.


Stop sinning = repentance.

 

[gr8grace]

Hi kiwidan

I don't believe you need to be baptised to be saved but The Lord commands to acts of obedience from us.

1. Baptism

2. Remembering our Lord Jesus in his own appointed way by the breaking of bread.

So if you truly believe you will want to obey The Lord and partake in each of these acts of obedience.

Being born again is when you accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your saviour. At that point you are baptised with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts you of sin and leads you to salvation so cursing the Holy Spirit is the continual rejection of the Holy Spirit thus the only unforgivable sin.

I hope these made sense, I know what I want to say but I'm not great with the written medium.

You are in error of the scriptures. Those born again do not sin. Those born again are the new wineskins in which the spirit is given. The spirit is given to those who obey. One cannot sin and obey at the same time. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. A sinner cannot please God. Yes, baptism is a must to be saved.


Baptism of water - repent and complete your repentance. Stop sinning.


Baptism of spirit - He comes to dwell inside the new creation.


Baptism of fire - The book of Job. Sufferings refines one and perfects them.


It is one Lord one baptism.


Stop sinning = repentance.

Are you sinless? when was the last time you sinned? do you need to get baptized in water again after every sin?

 

[reba]

Does every blossom that blossoms on a tree produce fruit ... Fruit is culled.

 

[Harbinger of truth]

Hi kiwidan

I don't believe you need to be baptised to be saved but The Lord commands to acts of obedience from us.

1. Baptism

2. Remembering our Lord Jesus in his own appointed way by the breaking of bread.

So if you truly believe you will want to obey The Lord and partake in each of these acts of obedience.

Being born again is when you accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your saviour. At that point you are baptised with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts you of sin and leads you to salvation so cursing the Holy Spirit is the continual rejection of the Holy Spirit thus the only unforgivable sin.

I hope these made sense, I know what I want to say but I'm not great with the written medium.

You are in error of the scriptures. Those born again do not sin. Those born again are the new wineskins in which the spirit is given. The spirit is given to those who obey. One cannot sin and obey at the same time. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. A sinner cannot please God. Yes, baptism is a must to be saved.


Baptism of water - repent and complete your repentance. Stop sinning.


Baptism of spirit - He comes to dwell inside the new creation.


Baptism of fire - The book of Job. Sufferings refines one and perfects them.


It is one Lord one baptism.


Stop sinning = repentance.

Are you sinless? when was the last time you sinned? do you need to get baptized in water again after every sin?

I am still a sinner, I am in a process of repentance. Once my obedience is complete and I see him, I shall receive the holy spirit. However, I can never claim to be without sin for I have alreasdy sinned. As for the sons of peridition, beware.

1 Peter 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.


Hebrews 6:1-6 - Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so. It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Luke 11:24-26 - “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1 John 2:18-19 - Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

2 Corinthians 10:6 - And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

 

[Harbinger of truth]

Does every blossom that blossoms on a tree produce fruit ... Fruit is culled.

Isaiah 64:5-7 - You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them, you were angry. How then can we be saved? All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. No one calls on your name or strives to lay hold of you; for you have hidden your face from us and have given us over to our sins.

 

[gr8grace]

Hi kiwidan

I don't believe you need to be baptised to be saved but The Lord commands to acts of obedience from us.

1. Baptism

2. Remembering our Lord Jesus in his own appointed way by the breaking of bread.

So if you truly believe you will want to obey The Lord and partake in each of these acts of obedience.

Being born again is when you accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your saviour. At that point you are baptised with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts you of sin and leads you to salvation so cursing the Holy Spirit is the continual rejection of the Holy Spirit thus the only unforgivable sin.

I hope these made sense, I know what I want to say but I'm not great with the written medium.

You are in error of the scriptures. Those born again do not sin. Those born again are the new wineskins in which the spirit is given. The spirit is given to those who obey. One cannot sin and obey at the same time. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. A sinner cannot please God. Yes, baptism is a must to be saved.


Baptism of water - repent and complete your repentance. Stop sinning.


Baptism of spirit - He comes to dwell inside the new creation.


Baptism of fire - The book of Job. Sufferings refines one and perfects them.


It is one Lord one baptism.


Stop sinning = repentance.

Are you sinless? when was the last time you sinned? do you need to get baptized in water again after every sin?

I am still a sinner, I am in a process of repentance. Once my obedience is complete and I see him, I shall receive the holy spirit. However, I can never claim to be without sin for I have alreasdy sinned. As for the sons of peridition, beware.

1 Peter 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.


Hebrews 6:1-6 - Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so. It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Luke 11:24-26 - “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1 John 2:18-19 - Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

2 Corinthians 10:6 - And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

So Baptism does not really complete repentance? As you posted before.

You do not have the Holy spirit now? How do you see truth in the bible if you do not have the Spirit?

 

[Harbinger of truth]

Obeying god is different than knowing him. Once one finishes their repentance of acts that lead to death I believe they receive the holy spirit. Then the fire comes which reminds me of Job. The fire perfects us and we see him.



I believe I am starting to see because I tremble in fear and I try to submit and humble myself. I mourn, cry, and weep. I beg..


I am willing to do anything he commands..

 

[Harbinger of truth]

Why do people not understand the bible?

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 - And even if our gospel is veiled,itisveiled to thosewho areperishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 - For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suittheir own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Romans 1:28 - Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 - They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believethe lie and so that all will becondemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Matthew 6:33 - But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

James 1:5 says, “But if any of you lackswisdom,let him ask of God, who givesto allgenerouslyand without reproach, and it will be given to him.” God has promised to help those who sincerely ask for such.

Romans 16:17 - I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

Ephesians 3:3-4 - that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,

1 Tim 2:3-4 - For this is good and acceptablein the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”

Ephesians 5:17 - Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is.

Acts4:32 - All thebelievers were one in heart and mind.

Proverbs 2:11-16 - Discretion will watch overyou, understanding will guard you, delivering you from the way of evil,from menof perverted speech, who forsake the paths of uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness, who rejoice in doing evil and delight in the perverseness of evil,men whose paths are crooked, and who are devious in their ways.

Proverbs 2:2-5 - Making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it likesilverand search foritasforhidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

James 1:2-4 - Count it all joy, my brothers,when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, thatyou maybeperfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Proverbs 12:1-28 - Whoever loves disciplineloves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid. A good man obtains favor from the Lord,but a man of evil deviceshecondemns. No one is established by wickedness, but the root of the righteous will never be moved. An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, but she who brings shame is likerottenness in his bones. The thoughts of the righteous are just; the counsels of the wicked are deceitful.

Psalm 119:130 - The unfolding of your words giveslight;itimpartsunderstanding to the simple.

Proverbs 14:29 - Whoever is slow to anger has great understanding, but he who has a hasty temper exalts folly.

Proverbs 17:27 - Whoever restrains his words has knowledge, and he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding.

Proverbs 18:2 - A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Matthew 22:29 - Jesus replied, “You arein error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

2 Peter 3:16 - He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

2 Corinthians 4:2 - But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God

2 Timothy 2:15 - Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

James 1:25 - But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will beblessed in his doing.

Romans 3:11 - No one understands; no one seeks for God.

Luke 23:40 - But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?

Psalm 111:10 - The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; allthose who practice it have a good understanding. His praiseendures forever!

Romans 8:7 - For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.

Proverbs 1:5-6 - Let the wise hear and increase in learning,and the one who understands obtain guidance,to understand a proverb and a saying, the words of the wise and their riddles.

Proverbs 25:2 - It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out.

1 Corinthians 2:13 - And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

Hebrews 4:2 - For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.

1 Corinthians 2:14 - The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Matthew 11:25 - At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

1 Peter 1:12 - It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

John 5:39-40 - You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life.These arethevery Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

2 Samuel 22:26-27 - “To the faithful you show yourself faithful, to the blameless you show yourself blameless, to the pure you show yourself pure, but to the devious you show yourself shrewd.

Matthew 13:10-14 - The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more,and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will beever hearing but never understanding; you will beever seeing but never perceiving.

Matthew 7:6 - “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

John 8:42-45 - Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my languagenot clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his nativelanguage,forheisa liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!

Isaiah 45:15 - Truly you are a God who has been hiding himself, the God and Savior of Israel.

 

[Danus]

Obeying god is different than knowing him. Once one finishes their repentance of acts that lead to death I believe they receive the holy spirit. Then the fire comes which reminds me of Job. The fire perfects us and we see him.

I don't see where the your argument stands. That is, what is your argument? Your title is

Most who think they believe - in - jesus do not. DEBATE

You started off with a description of your theology a bit, but you've not identified the other argument, that is, those who think they believe but don't. Can you frame this whole thing up a little better by describing the ones who think they believe in Christ but don't really? Who are those people? what is it they believe if they don't actually believe in Christ?

You used the word, "MOST". Your argument rest on the idea that MOST believers are non-believers, which would place them squarely in a non-saved position, outside a state of Grace along with those who don't even claim to follow or know Christ at all. Two things I'd be very careful of with that thought; 1 not having a more definite idea of "most" (ie, how many is most and exactly who are they?) 2 validating your own understanding of Christ against the understandings of others. You've yet to do either of those things clearly. You'll need to do that first to have a debate so that others can know exactly where it is you stand and what the charge, or argument is. Can you do that for us?

Keep this in mind; There are a lot of arguments opposed to any one argument. So if one argument wants to claim itself superior in a debate that argument needs to spell out that opposing argument it's taking on. It needs to; 1 identify itself, 2 identify it's opponent. Then there can be a debate.

 

[Harbinger of truth]

Pay attention to what is being communicated. Do not add to my words or take away from them. Most who think they believe-in-christ do not. Not, most who think they believe do not. There is already falsehood present. My debate is directed at sinners as you can see. They are the Most, they are the World who cannot know him or see him. If you cannot listen to me, how could you ever listen to God? A sinner is not saved, born again, or a child of God. They are not in him or he in them. Therefore they do not believe-in-him. Those who are in him are those who may be saved. They should have the seed of God within them. What does that have to do with grace? Grace is avaliable to everyone who accepts it. For god so loved the WORLD he sent his only beggoten son to die for our sins. Who said anything about them not believing jesus exist? Besides, many do believe in a false christ...a lie. Perhaps a great delusion? Maybe they are drunk and mad from the wine of the great whore who sits on the beast? In the times of Noah many many people were lost. What did jesus say? If I remember correctly it was something like when he returns will there be faith? History shows that gods people tend to turn their faces from him. Some turn their backs. The road to hell is very wide. The road to life is narrow. I wouldn't follow the majority if I were you. Many are blind guides. As for the false prophet beast that causes people to worship the beast, beware. Lies are being taught on many street corners. Stop poking and picking at my thread. This is a warning. Warn once, warn twice. Beware those who speak in a way that damages those who hear them. There can be life in your words or death. Grace be with you.