RichardBurger
Member
- Aug 31, 2009
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Two places in the Bible that I do not feel support baptismal regeneration (water baptism necessary for salvation) are as follows.
1 Pet 3:18-22
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water """symbolizes""" baptism that now saves you also-- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand-- with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
(NIV)
Verse 21 in the NKJV reads:
21 There is also an “â€â€antitypeâ€â€â€ which now saves us-- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
(NKJ)
At the end of verse 20, we read that, eight souls, were saved ""through" water. It is not that they were saved "by" water; they were saved "through" the water. Water was not the savior, but the judgment through which God brought them. If the people in the Ark, left the Ark, they would have drowned in the water. Therefore it is obvious that the water was not salvation.
To properly understand this statement in verse 20 and the verse that follows, we must see the typical meaning of the Ark and the flood. The Ark is a picture of the Lord Jesus Christ. The flood of water depicts the judgment of God. The Ark was the only way of salvation. When the flood came, only those who were inside were saved; all those on the outside perished. So Christ is the only way of salvation; those who are "in Christ" (Romans 8:1-2, 2 Cor. 1:21-22, 2 Cor. 5:17) are as saved as God Himself can make them. Those on the outside could not be more lost.
The water was not the means of salvation, for all who were in the water drowned. The Ark was the place of refuge and the only means of salvation. The Ark went ""through"" the water of judgment; it took the full brunt of the storm. Not a drop of water reached those inside the Ark. So Christ bore the fury of God's judgment against our sins. For those who are "in Him" there is no judgment (John 5:24).
Actually, there is a baptism which saves us --- not our baptism in water, but a baptism which took place at Calvary almost 2000 years ago; Christ's death was a baptism (see Mark 10:38). He was baptized in the waters of judgment. This is what He meant when He said, "I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished" (Luke 12:50). The psalmist described this baptism in the words, "Deep calls unto deep at the noise of Your waterfalls; all Your waves and billows have gone over me" (Psalms 42:7). In His death, Christ was baptized in the waves and billows of God's wrath, and it is this baptism that is the basis for our salvation; Christ's baptism unto death on the cross. Today the Holy Spirit baptizes us into His baptism on the cross. It is the Holy Spirit that dose this, not man. That is what it means to be buried with Him. Our water baptism "represents" our identification with Him only. It does not save us.
Many people use John 3:1-6 to support water baptism. -- But what do these scriptures really say?
**** Scripture
John 3:1-6 .. (NIV)
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
**** end scripture
It seems to me that in verses 3 and 4 there are only two births being discussed, a man's first birth in the flesh and a necessary second birth of the Spirit. -- Notice that in verse 5 he used the words "born of water" and then "the spirit" and in verse 6, "WHICH AMPLIFIES VERSE 5," He uses the words "birth to flesh" and then "birth to spirit." Nicodemus has brought up the subject of being born in the flesh for a second time. What has been said is that physical birth is not enough. Some will disagree but I believe he is talking about our physical birth "birth to flesh" in verse 5 and that there is another birth, "birth to spirit" which is accomplished by the Holy Spirit (NOT MAN)
Since the word baptism was not included in the text, to add it is to change the meaning of the word of God to fit into the theologies of men.
It has been said by another: I think it would be trivial to tell Nicodemus that he had to be born of the water if this meant physical birth. After all, he had already gone through this birth. Why bother to tell him then? -- Why, because it was Nicodemus that brought up the idea of going back into the womb and being born again.
Context is everything. Nowhere in the conversation has water baptism been mentioned. In John 3, verse 6 we see the words "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. " There is absolutely no mention of water baptism. Only two things are under discussion, being born of the flesh and being born of the Spirit.
Richard
1 Pet 3:18-22
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water """symbolizes""" baptism that now saves you also-- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand-- with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
(NIV)
Verse 21 in the NKJV reads:
21 There is also an “â€â€antitypeâ€â€â€ which now saves us-- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
(NKJ)
At the end of verse 20, we read that, eight souls, were saved ""through" water. It is not that they were saved "by" water; they were saved "through" the water. Water was not the savior, but the judgment through which God brought them. If the people in the Ark, left the Ark, they would have drowned in the water. Therefore it is obvious that the water was not salvation.
To properly understand this statement in verse 20 and the verse that follows, we must see the typical meaning of the Ark and the flood. The Ark is a picture of the Lord Jesus Christ. The flood of water depicts the judgment of God. The Ark was the only way of salvation. When the flood came, only those who were inside were saved; all those on the outside perished. So Christ is the only way of salvation; those who are "in Christ" (Romans 8:1-2, 2 Cor. 1:21-22, 2 Cor. 5:17) are as saved as God Himself can make them. Those on the outside could not be more lost.
The water was not the means of salvation, for all who were in the water drowned. The Ark was the place of refuge and the only means of salvation. The Ark went ""through"" the water of judgment; it took the full brunt of the storm. Not a drop of water reached those inside the Ark. So Christ bore the fury of God's judgment against our sins. For those who are "in Him" there is no judgment (John 5:24).
Actually, there is a baptism which saves us --- not our baptism in water, but a baptism which took place at Calvary almost 2000 years ago; Christ's death was a baptism (see Mark 10:38). He was baptized in the waters of judgment. This is what He meant when He said, "I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished" (Luke 12:50). The psalmist described this baptism in the words, "Deep calls unto deep at the noise of Your waterfalls; all Your waves and billows have gone over me" (Psalms 42:7). In His death, Christ was baptized in the waves and billows of God's wrath, and it is this baptism that is the basis for our salvation; Christ's baptism unto death on the cross. Today the Holy Spirit baptizes us into His baptism on the cross. It is the Holy Spirit that dose this, not man. That is what it means to be buried with Him. Our water baptism "represents" our identification with Him only. It does not save us.
Many people use John 3:1-6 to support water baptism. -- But what do these scriptures really say?
**** Scripture
John 3:1-6 .. (NIV)
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
**** end scripture
It seems to me that in verses 3 and 4 there are only two births being discussed, a man's first birth in the flesh and a necessary second birth of the Spirit. -- Notice that in verse 5 he used the words "born of water" and then "the spirit" and in verse 6, "WHICH AMPLIFIES VERSE 5," He uses the words "birth to flesh" and then "birth to spirit." Nicodemus has brought up the subject of being born in the flesh for a second time. What has been said is that physical birth is not enough. Some will disagree but I believe he is talking about our physical birth "birth to flesh" in verse 5 and that there is another birth, "birth to spirit" which is accomplished by the Holy Spirit (NOT MAN)
Since the word baptism was not included in the text, to add it is to change the meaning of the word of God to fit into the theologies of men.
It has been said by another: I think it would be trivial to tell Nicodemus that he had to be born of the water if this meant physical birth. After all, he had already gone through this birth. Why bother to tell him then? -- Why, because it was Nicodemus that brought up the idea of going back into the womb and being born again.
Context is everything. Nowhere in the conversation has water baptism been mentioned. In John 3, verse 6 we see the words "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. " There is absolutely no mention of water baptism. Only two things are under discussion, being born of the flesh and being born of the Spirit.
Richard