Were These Homicides Justified ?

[Guest]

If the death of myself or my family at the hands of evil served a greater purpose, as did the death of our Lord and Savior, that would be one thing.


8-)

You raise a very interesting point - if you killed the person, how would you know if there was a 'greater good' to be served.

Yes, I realize you can say, well if I tried to kill him but the gun jammed, etc etc.

For example, what if through the killing - you offer forgivess and the 'evil' person comes to know Christ.

 

[christian_soldier]

You raise a very interesting point - if you killed the person, how would you know if there was a 'greater good' to be served.

Yes, I realize you can say, well if I tried to kill him but the gun jammed, etc etc.

For example, what if through the killing - you offer forgivess and the 'evil' person comes to know Christ.

Good point.

Note to self: Shoot to maim, not kill, if possible. Just in case.

:smt066

 

[Featherbop]

I keep getting angrier and angrier thinking about this.
The same people who praise this human scum's actions would denounce a mother who killed her children by the direction of god. This has nothing to do with a god by any means. The reason this man hearing god is considered legitimate is because people agree with his delusional morality.
People praising this man do not care for life, they just desire to enforce their own delusional morality upon all people. Such good christians with such hearty blood lust.

This scum cannot even take responsibility for his actions, he has to defer back to sky daddy! He did it, there was no god talking to him! The evil human heart cannot even acknowledge it's own destructive notions! It must shift the blame, the reasoning, back to a higher power.

Maybe if your children, or family, or friends were destroyed by a maniac who claimed divine direction you would understand.

 

[Guest]

I keep getting angrier and angrier thinking about this.
The same people who praise this human scum's actions would denounce a mother who killed her children by the direction of god. This has nothing to do with a god by any means. The reason this man hearing god is considered legitimate is because people agree with his delusional morality.
People praising this man do not care for life, they just desire to enforce their own delusional morality upon all people. Such good christians with such hearty blood lust.

This scum cannot even take responsibility for his actions, he has to defer back to sky daddy! He did it, there was no god talking to him! The evil human heart cannot even acknowledge it's own destructive notions! It must shift the blame, the reasoning, back to a higher power.

Maybe if your children, or family, or friends were destroyed by a maniac who claimed divine direction you would understand.

I do not remember reading any person on this forum praising the actions of Hill or even saying that he was actually justified.

Perhaps you can provide a exact quote from someone in this thread that has "praised this human scum's actions"

It appears that you are building strawmen arguements.

 

[Rick W]

Yes aLoneVoice, I agree peace/forgiveness are to be sought above all else but I don't believe extreme pacifism is the answer either. For example I hardly think the Amish live in the freeworld without reason. I applaude their ways and display of Godly trust yet the land in which they choose to live is protected by the biggest guns the world has ever known. Their society could not flourish outside that protected environment.

 

[christian_soldier]

If you have to kill or otherwise silence your opposition to protect your beliefs, you have no regard for truth.

Without God there is no truth.

 

[Rick W]

Pontius Pilate asked, "What is truth?" and truth was standing right there before him.

 

[Featherbop]

I do not remember reading any person on this forum praising the actions of Hill or even saying that he was actually justified.

Perhaps you can provide a exact quote from someone in this thread that has "praised this human scum's actions"

It appears that you are building strawmen arguements.

I was mostly speaking of those who support that scum in general. There are those that agree with this, here and elsewhere. Now, the actual problem here is whether one agrees with murder or not. Hiding behind a fairy book does not justify anything.

Although no one here has explicitly "praised" him, they support him, and that is in principle the same thing. This is like muslims who will not condemn terrorist attacks, or who agree that bombing civilians is acceptable. Replace, "praise" with "support" or "agree with" or "justify" if you want to. It is just semantics.
:-?

Without God there is no truth.

If people really believed in god, they would not have to kill or silence or coerce anyone. People don't have to kill for truth, only for nonsense.

So I think most theists do not, in reality, believe in god.

 

[christian_soldier]

Speaking of nonsense:

"So I think most theists do not, in reality, believe in god."



:roll:

 

[Vic C.]

Speaking of nonsense:

"So I think most theists do not, in reality, believe in god."

:roll:

Yeah, I'm with you, CS.


Definition of Theism: Theism may be defined as belief in a god or gods. Some religions have many gods; some have only one. Some religions are theistic; others are not. Theism is the opposite of atheism, which is belief that there is no god. Biblical theism is belief in the Judeo-Christian God, i.e., the God presented in the Bible. http://www.biblicaltheism.com/

 

[Quath]

Speaking of nonsense:

"So I think most theists do not, in reality, believe in god."

It sounds to me that Featherbop is making the observation that by deed, people who say thet believe in a God do not act if they really believe he is real.

An example of something like this would be the person who believes that heaven is the best place ever and they believe they are going there, but they are sacred to die. It seems that may subconsciously doubt.

Likewise, when someone tries to force their beliefs upon others, it could be a sign that they want to feel part of a majority because they may have inner doubts.

Now you can dismiss and ridicule his statement, but I think you miss the real message and do not contribute to a potentially good dialog.

 

[Featherbop]

It sounds to me that Featherbop is making the observation that by deed, people who say thet believe in a God do not act if they really believe he is real.

Yes. That is exactly what I observe.

_____

I am not saying theism does not exist. I just do not think that most people who proclaim theism actually believe in god. God is typically(at least in christianity) portrayed as being omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, eternal, unchangeable and the like. This god is supposed to be the embodiment of truth.

Truth cannot be changed, cannot be harmed in any way. There is no way to stop it, regardless.

However, many 'theists' do not act as if this is the case. They act as if god is something that needs defending. They feel they need to coerce or convince others to believe. They try to silence those from speaking who do not believe in their god. They even may attempt to seize the government in order to enforce their beliefs on a nation. I had posted messages in this thread, which mysteriously disappeared. I do not know for sure, but I think some one deleted them(did not inform me of course). Now, if you have to protect your beliefs, your god, from a post on an internet forum, it is safe to say you do not have confidence in what you believe.

If there is a god that is truth, that cannot be changed or defeated, then no one needs to defend that deity. In fact, it would be pointless to do so, because truth will be regardless. That is why I suspect most who claim belief in god do not actually believe.

And then of course, we have this matter at hand, which only serves to reinforce what I already suspect:

A man, claiming god led or allowed him to murder another human being, is not questioned when he claims that god led him to do it, because his actions are deemed acceptable according to the delusional morality. However, if a woman kills her children and claims god led her to do it, that is not accepted, because the delusional morality does not find that acceptable.

That is why this has nothing to do with a belief in god. This has to do with people's twisted moral code. In the bible, god kills a lot of people, yet this does not fit with a lot of the christian moral code, and therefore, this is ignored.

This man killing the doctor has to do with a twisted moral code, riddled with hypocrisy.

 

[Lewis]

Well sometimes certain things call for violence. To protect the wife' kids' mom' pop' etc. Where was that when Jesus told the apostles' that they would have to take some money and buy swords ? Was it in St John ? I forgot where it was. But why would Jesus make such a statement if He knew they were for violence. I will tell you why' so that they could be used for violence. But we are supposed to try to be peaceful at all times.

# Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Romans 12:17-19


Notice that word possible up there' some people won't let you live in peace with them. And pulling babies out the womb and sticking a probe in the base of their skulls' calls for drastic measures.

 

[Guest]

Well sometimes certain things call for violence. To protect the wife' kids' mom' pop' etc. Where was that when Jesus told the apostles' that they would have to take some money and buy swords ? Was it in St John ? I forgot where it was. But why would Jesus make such a statement if He knew they were for violence. I will tell you why' so that they could be used for violence. But we are supposed to try to be peaceful at all times.

# Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Romans 12:17-19


Notice that word possible up there' some people won't let you live in peace with them. And pulling babies out the womb and sticking a probe in the base of their skulls' calls for drastic measures.

Lewis - there is a thread explaining the passage about "buying a sword".

I have bumped it.... I would be interested in reading your comments on it.

 

[Lewis]

Yeah I just saw that thread. Now in the passages below the law is supposed to protect these babies, because they are the ministers of God' but what is the courts doing ? I'll tell you killing them. The courts have no right to take the lives of these babies. But they think they do' they are fools. God set the courts in place to help protect the people' but what do they do ? They kill babies. And give a adult killer life. And they use the Bible in court to swear on.

Romans 13

1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.