What is the role of evil?

[JNathanK]

Is evil something that just crops up as an antithesis to God when he manifests creation, or is it something He intentionally imbeds into creation as a possibility to give more meaning to His eternal love?

He created us out of perfection, and we fell into sin and imperfection. Is this some type of tendency that happens for anything He creates? My thinking is that for free will to exist, the possibility for evil and straying from God's will has to exist. I wonder at times whether it would be better to not have free will at all, because then everything would all just be hunky-dory and blissful. However, love would then be this innocuous thing, because there would be no possible way of rejecting it.

I'm also thinking that evil is some type of eternality because of hell. Hell is ultimately a place for evil to become separated from good. All the damned burning there forever will mean that evil will exist forever in some way. In the realm were in now, the two polarities are inter-meshed, and the way we live our lives now will determine which side we'll be with in the hereafter when the two sides of the good-evil duality schism and separate. This is kind of unsettling to me though, because it might mean the two could collide again. Hell could be some type of crucible too, though, to purify evil from creation. That could be the whole process of this life as a generality as well.

Whatever these mysteries mean, I know what's right and what's wrong, though, and I know which side I want to be on. I don't even care whether I experience suffering in this life or the next. I know living life through the love of Christ is the right thing to do. Rebelling against that love just messes up everything. If I had it in me, I would live my life through Christs love for an eternity of imperfect existences like this, even if there was no heaven waiting for me. I know myself, though, and this isn't in me. I'll keep trying though and asking God for strength.

 

[Adullam]

God uses everything for good. He uses evil to strengthen our resolve towards righteousness the way gravity exercises our muscles against that force.

 

[smaller]

Is evil something that just crops up as an antithesis to God when he manifests creation,

That would be a YES. If we see that Only God Is Perfect, then all other manifestations in creation are relegated to a 'less than' Perfect situation, but within 'all' of His Creation, any thing that IS exists IN HIM. I also believe that makes anything that is or exists serves Him and His Purposes.

I believe that EVIL serves God, and not vice versa. It is a real but TEMPORAL phenomena, and is so with DIVINE PURPOSES at the core, which are written about in the scriptures...the Divine Intent of those matters.

or is it something He intentionally imbeds into creation as a possibility to give more meaning to His eternal love?

Evil has many eternal lessons to deliver when they are understood and perceived. In theology the studies are termed theodicy as a subset of study, just as protology is a study of beginnings and eschatology a study of endings. All subsets of theology general.

He created us out of perfection,

Indeed. All the 'sons of God' were present at the time of creation and shown to be so in Job 38:

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

It is a hotly debated matter. Origen for example held to pre-existence of the sons of God. But if we see Adam for example as 'a son of God' (Luke 3:38) it is required for sons to have come from and originated in God Himself.

All of Israel were taught to be children of God as well, Deut. 14:1 and in Psalm 82:6 for examples.

and we fell into sin and imperfection. Is this some type of tendency that happens for anything He creates?

Jesus told us exactly 'how' this happens and it happened no differently with Adam. Where the Word is sown, Satan enters the heart to steal, to blind and ultimately to kill. There is the essence of EVIL. I believe God MADE Satan, therefore God MADE evil. It is impossible to logically disconnect God from any 'created' thing OR POWER in His creation. Those who believe any thing or power 'created itself' is actually practicing and preaching POLY-theism.

My thinking is that for free will to exist, the possibility for evil and straying from God's will has to exist. I wonder at times whether it would be better to not have free will at all, because then everything would all just be hunky-dory and blissful. However, love would then be this innocuous thing, because there would be no possible way of rejecting it.

Freewill is an impossibility on many counts. There is 'your will.' there is the 'will of the god of this world' that 'functions' within the will of man, and there is the Will of God Over Ruling all of the matters, with the FULL intention of our reaching unto Him for 'all things.' Your choice is irrelevant to the god of this world. And God is not 'in need' of your choice. He IS, always WAS and always WILL BE PERFECT.

I do believe however that His creation gives and provides Him PLEASURE. Perfect Pleasure that ONLY HE can extract for Himself. I believe for example that God will take GREAT PLEASURE in the ultimate destruction of evil, all it's works and all it's ways, proving that HE Alone is SUPERIOR to it all and able to MAKE GOOD from any power.

I'm also thinking that evil is some type of eternality because of hell. Hell is ultimately a place for evil to become separated from good.

That is a common christian fallacy. First, there is 'no place' separated from OmniPresence. Secondly we are shown in Revelation 14:10 that the torture of Satan will take place in the presence of the Lamb.

So if you are 'with' and 'in' The Lamb, you too will be witnessing that matter.

All the damned burning there forever will mean that evil will exist forever in some way. In the realm were in now, the two polarities are inter-meshed, and the way we live our lives now will determine which side we'll be with in the hereafter when the two sides of the good-evil duality schism and separate. This is kind of unsettling to me though, because it might mean the two could collide again. Hell could be some type of crucible too, though, to purify evil from creation. That could be the whole process of this life as a generality as well.

Evil will eventually implode and 'wink out' of it's own devices, or 'total destruction.' The second death is termed that way to depict it's ending, that being 'for ever and ever.'

Whatever these mysteries mean, I know what's right and what's wrong, though, and I know which side I want to be on. I don't even care whether I experience suffering in this life or the next. I know living life through the love of Christ is the right thing to do. Rebelling against that love just messes up everything. If I had it in me, I would live my life through Christs love for an eternity of imperfect existences like this, even if there was no heaven waiting for me. I know myself, though, and this isn't in me. I'll keep trying though and asking God for strength.

In many ways we are already 'in' a form of 'hell' right here on earth because the devil and his messengers 'operate' in this present environment.

If you understand that 'anti'Christ spirits are against The Spirit of LIFE and against everything that Christ is, how much more HELL do we want to be subjected to? To me that is PRESENT HELL.

s

 

[Drew]

Freewill is an impossibility on many counts. There is 'your will.' there is the 'will of the god of this world' that 'functions' within the will of man, and there is the Will of God Over Ruling all of the matters, with the FULL intention of our reaching unto Him for 'all things.' Your choice is irrelevant to the god of this world. And God is not 'in need' of your choice. He IS, always WAS and always WILL BE PERFECT.

This argument begs the question - you simply assert a model of various free wills at work in the world, and simply claim that there is no "place" for human free will in that model.

Why do the scriptures, and / or other consideration, rule out the possiblility of human free will?

 

[smaller]

This argument begs the question - you simply assert a model of various free wills at work in the world, and simply claim that there is no "place" for human free will in that model.

From a position of reason I can't logically deny the Will of God, Satan and man. To me this is beyond any point of dispute.

It is also beyond the point of dispute to 'me' that all 3 operate in MAN. You are welcome to 'think' otherwise.

Why do the scriptures, and / or other consideration, rule out the possiblility of human free will?

See previous.

s

 

[JNathanK]

From a position of reason I can't logically deny the Will of God, Satan and man. To me this is beyond any point of dispute.

It is also beyond the point of dispute to 'me' that all 3 operate in MAN. You are welcome to 'think' otherwise.


See previous.

s

Hmm, I don't really believe in human free will in an absolute sense, but I think we have a limited number of choices we can choose between. It can be from choices that have nothing to do with good and evil, just preference, like choosing what condiments you want on your sandwich. ...or it can be whether you want to follow your own ego and the will of the world over the will of God.

I agree that creation gives God pleasure, but I believe that we can gain the most fulfilling pleasure for ourselves by following God's will. It may not give you the instant gratification of shooting up heroin or having unprotected sex with a bunch of random people, but it gives you much more gratification in the long run.