What's your opinion on....

[aimee_747]

Masterbating? Is it a sin? Is it as sinful as premarital sex? My little cousin, who's 17, recently asked me these questions and I honestly didn't know what to tell her. She's not sexually active but she has questions. And I'd rather she'd ask and get honest answers then to just be a teen and do it anyway. . .

 

[Lewis]

Yes it is sin. But go here they have a forum for what you are talking about. And it is a Christian forum, the largest on the planet. What you are looking for is in the Recovery forums.

http://www.christianforums.com/index.php

And here is one of the conversations about it.
http://www.christianforums.com/t2564718 ... wrong.html

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

so does that mean this thread is dead?

 

[Lewis]

so does that mean this thread is dead?

Not at all, I just gave them a place where they talk about these things, and in more detail, than we can on this site.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

ah. gotcha. well, masturbation is the intentional stimulation of sexual organs. they are supposed to be used for one thing... procreation, or at least the attempt. any act that uses the sexual organs is usually associated with lust, a deadly sin, and therefore should not be commited. I am reminded of the story in genesis of Onan. He was smited for spilling his seed upon the ground. That kinda tells me that God doesnt like that kind of thing. Yes, he liked his prostitutes, but thats not what he was smited for.

Masturbation also leads to sexual addiction. its often the first step. sexual addiction is harder to break than a coke addiction, according to the studies. So, its best to not get involved in the stuff. It becomes a sin that owns your life.

 

[ArtGuy]

The Bible actually says nothing about masturbation. The closest you can come to scriptural condemnation of it is the story of Onan, but that only works if you twist the meaning of the story. Onan was punished not for "spilling his seed upon the ground", but for trying to play God by manipulating who would give birth to his first son.

Point of fact, early Christians didn't believe that masturbation was a sin. It wasn't until Christians started to be labeled as sex-obsessed orgy freaks by the super-strict gnostics that they even bothered to speak out on the subject, and by that point it was more or less a competition to see who could be the most prudish on the subject.

The idea that sex in general is somehow sinful is absurd. It actually is promoted in the Bible as a joyous act of love. Proverbs, for example, has this to say:

Proverbs 5:15 Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well.

16 Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets.

17 Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee.

18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

It's pretty obviously not talking about procreation, there. Sex is supposed to be good and fun. And what of masturbation? Well, the fact that the Bible never bothers to say that it's bad is pretty telling. This is something that everyone is driven to try at one point or another. It's part of growing up. If something so prominent was a sin, I'm sure that God would've commented unequivocably on it.

In truth, masturbation is a good form of release. It can prevent lust. What's better? A little self-manipulation, or having sex with a random person to whom you're not wed? Abstaining from masturbation is not only pointless, it's unrealistic and harmful to one's sexual health.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

wow. harmful to your sexual health? Id like to see some stats on that. Your theology of sex is warped. Its supposed to be an expression of love, but where is the expression of love in masturbation. Its self "love". Its a selfish sin, just like oral sex. The only difference is that it doesnt involve another person. And how does it prevent lust? Another thing I would like to see some evidence of.

 

[ArtGuy]

wow. harmful to your sexual health? Id like to see some stats on that. Your theology of sex is warped. Its supposed to be an expression of love, but where is the expression of love in masturbation. Its self "love". Its a selfish sin, just like oral sex. The only difference is that it doesnt involve another person. And how does it prevent lust? Another thing I would like to see some evidence of.

If you're highly attracted to someone, and you really want to have sex with her, sexual release via masturbation will stymie that. You don't grasp how one might be slightly more inclined to have pre-marital sex when one hasn't had an orgasm in 10 years?

Anyway, please provide scriptural evidence that my theology of sex is "warped". Particularly the passage that says you shouldn't masturbate.

 

[peace4all]

Well maybe..

Masturbation is a normal sexual behavior that just about everybody engages in - 95 percent of males and 89 percent of females, according to current statistics. For many people, however, it remains a taboo subject and a practice that is still regarded as perverse or immoral. As recently as the late 19th century, medical doctors condemned masturbation as destructive to mental health, even recommending amputation of the penis as a way to cure the habit in compulsive males.

Now it appears that masturbation is not only normal, it may be healthy and protective, especially for young men. A team of scientists in Australia found that men who ejaculate more frequently between the ages of 20 and 50 are less likely to develop prostate cancer. The protective effect seems greatest for those in their 20s. Results from the study, published in the August 2003 issue of BJU International showed that men who ejaculated more than five times per week were one-third less likely to develop aggressive prostate
advertisement
cancer in their later years. The result contradicts an older belief that high frequency of sexual activity increases the incidence of prostate cancer. The key difference is that earlier research defined sexual activity as sexual intercourse alone rather than focusing on the number of ejaculations.

The Australian team speculated that potential infections associated with intercourse might raise the risk of prostate cancer, whereas masturbation allows the prostate, together with the seminal vesicles, to discharge secretions and prevent the buildup of any carcinogens that may be concentrated in them. (Canine studies have demonstrated that certain cancer-causing compounds found in cigarette smoke do concentrate in prostatic fluid.)

In my view, masturbation can be a normal expression of sexuality in both men and women. When done compulsively or addictively it can be irritating or exhausting, but in moderation it is medically harmless and may even be healthy. If the Australian findings are confirmed, they should become part of the advice doctors give men for protecting their reproductive systems.

Dr. Andrew Weil, M.D.


Have contrary views on masturbation? to state your case in our discussion groups.

http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA297851/

Just one of the many many articles

 

[Lewis]

Masturbation also leads to sexual addiction. its often the first step. sexual addiction is harder to break than a coke addiction, according to the studies. So, its best to not get involved in the stuff. It becomes a sin that owns your life.

Now that is true. sexual addiction is very hard to break, God can free you from actively participating in it, and you can get free from it. But your flesh from time to time will always want to go back to it. And men tend to be more visual, and when they see a stacked women, their mind starts to run.
Most sex addictions start when you are young, but I was reading that when you get older like in your 30's it is harder to break, and I think that is true.
And I also know many women sex addicts, and they can be just as bad as the men. Sex is really for marriage. When you masturbate you have to think of a woman or man, and Jesus said if you look on a woman with lust, you have have already had her in your heart. So it is sin. You don't masturbate without thinking of somebody that you want to have sex with.

 

[ArtGuy]

Well, technically, you don't have to envision a woman (or man), but you usually do, so sure. However, "lust" in a biblical sense doesn't simply mean physical attraction. It goes deeper than that, in the same way that "covetousness" is more than simply thinking that your neighbor's HDTV is pretty neat. It implies an unhealthy obsession, to the point where it impacts your clarity of thought. If you look at a woman and think, "Wow, she's really good looking," that's not lust. If you think, "OMG I SIMPLY MUST HAVE SOME OF THAT RIGHT NOW *DROOL DROOL DROOL*", that is lust.

At any rate, what if you're seeing someone, and you love her? Is it a sin to think, "Gee, it'll be nice to make love to her someday."? Is it a sin to think of her fondly and provocatively in the context of loving union? Hardly.

And masturbation is only a precursor to sexual addiction in the way that eating is a precursor to obesity. All things in moderation, whether it be food, sex, television, or reading the Bible.

 

[GundamZero]

"But I tell you that anyone who even looks at aoman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

Yep, right from the Master's mouth. You should read the following verses to yourself, you know, the one about the hands.

The culmination of lust would be the arousal of and the full excitment of the sexual organs. Outside of wedlock and apart from your wife(or husband) this is sin.

An asking whether it is "as bad" as another sin is not very discerning, since sinis sin, and is not comparable or contrastable. They are all ramifications of our falling short of the Glory of God.

 

[CatholicXian]

The heart of the problem with masturbation, theologically speaking, is that it's self-serving. Love is meant to be self-gift, not self-reception. Masturbation is a gross form of self-love that's entirely selfish and self-seeking. It seeks to please ME.

True love, real love, is self-gift. It is giving myself totally and completely to another to whom I have pledged lifelong vows before God. Thus, this kind of self-giving love (in sexual terms) can only be expressed in marriage--where I seek the good of another. Sexual intercourse between a husband and wife is an image/reflection of the self-giving love of the Trinity. The love expressed in that sexual relationship is so real that it can come to be in the form of a child. Analogously, the love between Father and Son in the Trinity is so real that it comes to be in the person of the Holy Spirit (though I am NOT implying the Trinity is sexual... all analogies fall short).

 

[ArtGuy]

"But I tell you that anyone who even looks at aoman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

Yes. Looking at a woman lustfully is bad. This doesn't address the question of what constitutes "lust".

Yep, right from the Master's mouth. You should read the following verses to yourself, you know, the one about the hands.

Buh? If you're using that as your scriptural condemnation of masturbation, you're truly a master of biblical misinterpretation.

The culmination of lust would be the arousal of and the full excitment of the sexual organs. Outside of wedlock and apart from your wife(or husband) this is sin.

Lust is a spiritual thing. You can commit lust without moving a finger. Further, you can engage in sexual activity without committing the sin of lust.

Lust is, in the bible, repeatedly associated with coveting. It stands to reason, therefore, that we can determine the meaning of lust by seeing what it means to covet. Do you think that it's a sin to want a new car? No, it's only a sin if you want that car so badly that you obsess over it.

Similarly, lust implies more than simply thinking something is keen. Saying, "Hey, that woman is pretty," is not lust. Even imagining her naked is not necessarily lust. If you start obsessing over her, then it is lust.

Man, the gnostics pretty much ruined sexual activity for us Christians.

An asking whether it is "as bad" as another sin is not very discerning, since sinis sin, and is not comparable or contrastable. They are all ramifications of our falling short of the Glory of God.

This is true. But it requires that masturbation be a sin to begin with.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Masterbating? Is it a sin? Is it as sinful as premarital sex? My little cousin, who's 17, recently asked me these questions and I honestly didn't know what to tell her. She's not sexually active but she has questions. And I'd rather she'd ask and get honest answers then to just be a teen and do it anyway. . .

Well, no sense in anyone beating themselves up over it.

 

[ArtGuy]

The heart of the problem with masturbation, theologically speaking, is that it's self-serving. Love is meant to be self-gift, not self-reception. Masturbation is a gross form of self-love that's entirely selfish and self-seeking. It seeks to please ME.

Masturbation has nothing to do with love, though. When I eat a dish of ice cream, that is also self-serving. It's empty calories, and it does nothing but please my tastebuds. Is eating ice cream a sin?

I like to play video games. When I go buy my next 360 game, it will be a self-reception. Does that make it sinful?

I don't think anybody here really has a good idea of why they think masturbation, or sex in general, is bad. I think that we think sex is bad because we're raised from birth to think sex is bad. It's part of a general sense that anything fun and pleasureable is inherently bad, because pleasure is verboten. And since we don't want to think that we're denying ourselves pleasure for no good reason, we hunt down vague and easily transmutable Bible passages to justify after the fact why we've been suppressing these behaviors for so long.

Masturbation is in no way fundamentally different from sitting in a massaging chair, or taking a hot bath. They're all completely selfish (in the value-neutral sense) attempts to stimulate our nerves in such a way that our brain finds it enjoyable. Your genitals are not evil. They are not tools of the devil. You aren't angering God when you decide to grant yourself a pleasurable experience.

 

[CatholicXian]

Masturbation has nothing to do with love, though. When I eat a dish of ice cream, that is also self-serving. It's empty calories, and it does nothing but please my tastebuds. Is eating ice cream a sin?

Eating ice cream is not a sin (unless you're being a glutton). But this is beside the point.

Masturbation has a LOT to do with love simply because it is a sexual act.

I like to play video games. When I go buy my next 360 game, it will be a self-reception. Does that make it sinful?

Like ice cream, this is beside the point. Buying/eating/etc. are not sexual. It the sexual nature of masturbation that relates it to love.

I don't think anybody here really has a good idea of why they think masturbation, or sex in general, is bad. I think that we think sex is bad because we're raised from birth to think sex is bad. It's part of a general sense that anything fun and pleasureable is inherently bad, because pleasure is verboten. And since we don't want to think that we're denying ourselves pleasure for no good reason, we hunt down vague and easily transmutable Bible passages to justify after the fact why we've been suppressing these behaviors for so long.

Sex is not bad. Sex is a great good! Sex is wonderful and awesome--between a husband and wife. It's not pleasure that is the problem with masturbation. It's that it is inheritantly a self-seeking sexual act. Sex is by nature not intended to be a solo act (pieces and parts fit nicely for a reason...)

Masturbation is in no way fundamentally different from sitting in a massaging chair, or taking a hot bath. They're all completely selfish (in the value-neutral sense) attempts to stimulate our nerves in such a way that our brain finds it enjoyable.

Maturbation IS fundamentally different because it's sexual. Sex isn't selfish and that's the point. Becoming happy/relaxed by a massage or hot bath isn't sexual and so doesn't apply or relate to masturbation. You are thinking in terms of pleasure, which isn't the point at all-- sex is the point.

 

[Lewis]

Paul made a good point in Romans 14:14 it says.
Romans 14:14 (King James Version)
King James Version
14. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Sex is not bad with in itself. But it is what you do with it, and how are you with it. are you a sex addict, which can lead to some very dark stuff. there has always been sex addicts on the earth and masturbaters. It is just that it is more of it now, because there are more people on the earth. Now getting back to Paul, some people think that sex is unclean, I think, that this is warped thinking. God is the one who made sex, for us here on earth, because there is none up there where He is, if I might add. Now I would thing that masturbating was not in His plan, even though He knew that people would do it. He did not put it into your mind, or do some of you think that He did ? Paul calls it in Romans 1:30 inventors of evil things. Like sex toys, using whips and so on. Man has taken sex and twisted it. Making your wife dress up like a nurse, or a little school girl, for sexual gratification. You name it mankind is doing it. When it comes to sex. This stuff was not in the plan. Sorry if I went off topic a little, but I could not help it.

 

[ArtGuy]

Maturbation IS fundamentally different because it's sexual.

Why? I could say that a hot bath is fundamentally different because it involves bubbles. That isn't an answer.

And if it's so bad, then why doesn't the Bible say anything about it, specifically? Leviticus is a whole laundry list of no-nos, and it includes tons of seemingly innocuous things, but it inexplicably fails to mention masturbation.

The Bible dwells a lot on things like adultery, and lust, and fornication. It goes into great detail, and provides many examples. But on this one simple point, it's silent. All we have to go on is the assurances of people - very falliable people - that God certainly meant it to be a sin, but didn't get around to mentioning it. Not a terribly compelling case, sorry.

 

[CatholicXian]

Why? I could say that a hot bath is fundamentally different because it involves bubbles. That isn't an answer.

You've missed the point. SEX was the entire point. Masturbation is a sexual act-- that puts it in the realm of sexual activities where there are wrong/right actions. Adultery, lust, fornication, etc. are all sexual acts. We apply the same principles to determine why those actions are wrong as well.

Masturbation is a sexually immoral action. Thus, it's wrong. Why is it sexually immoral? See my previous posts.

And if it's so bad, then why doesn't the Bible say anything about it, specifically? Leviticus is a whole laundry list of no-nos, and it includes tons of seemingly innocuous things, but it inexplicably fails to mention masturbation.

The Bible doesn't say anything explitly about pornography, but we know it's wrong because we can apply biblical principles to the situation. What is one of the reasons homosexual love is forbidden? It's fruitless. So too is the act of masturbation.