Which is correct?

[tjw]

I'm somewhat new to studying this in-depth. I'm sorry if I have an incorrect understanding of this debate or if I use the wrong words to describe each position. The debate I'm talking about is Lordship salvation vs. free grace salvation.

Which view is correct and why?

 

[Tina]

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What's free grace salvation ?? .....

 

[Pard]

First, so people know:

Lordship salvation is basically the idea that you are saved through faith in Christ AND good works. Now technically it does not require good works, and instead advocates for a changed life, and uses good works as a means of gauging whether a life has been changed.

Free grace salvation is basically the idea that salvation comes from faith alone.

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Now the problem is, they are both right to some extent, and at the same time, when taken alone they are both rather dangerous.

Free grace salvation is technically the correct view. Now the problem comes when people (usually non-Christians newly coming to faith) hear this and decide that they do not have to to anything but claim Jesus. It is the same problem that occurs with the OSAS doctrine.

Yes, the only thing that needs to be done for salvation is to TRULY and LOVINGLY accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and do so in faith. The thing that is not told (because ti does not pertain to salvation, exactly) is that when you are saved you are filled with the Holy Spirit who guides you through your life from then on. (this is where the Lordship salvation idea becomes right) Evidence of a saved life IS a changed life. The problem with Lordship salvation is that it relies heavily on good works and quick changing.

First, my only comment on good works is that God sees good works as nothing greater than dirty rags (and those are not any dirty rags, but the dirty rags of the feminine hygiene type.)

Now Lordship salvation also assumes that these changes will happen quickly. This is not always true. We are each at a different place in our spiritual growth. Everyone is different and grows at a different rate. Some people are more tied up in sin and they will take longer to get themselves unraveled. Some people are more or less living a Christian life already, and their growth may come very rapidly.

I have only been a Christian for a matter of months. When I told someone this they were staggered because they said they figured I had been a Christian my entire life. My good friend is also a Christian and has been one for a year or so. He is still very weak in faith and love, but he is coming along. So you see, growth is relative.

Another example, when I was in 6th grade I was 5' 11". I have not grown a single inch in the last 6 years. We grow in spurts, not steadily and at a predictable pace.

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So you see, the correct view is really a hybrid between the two. A man IS saved through faith alone. However, if we do not start to see changes in our live we should be concerned, but of course we should not expect an over night metamorphosis into Billy Graham. Both of these views are right and wrong int heir respected areas.

My last comment, is that the free grave salvation is the most dangerous of them because it will lead many people into giving them what they think is salvation, but is really lies. It is through the free grace salvation idea that many evangelists come to "save" people, and it explains why people seem to be leaving the church in "droves". When in reality, they were just visiting the church, they never decided to sit around.

 

[watchman F]

First, so people know:

Lordship salvation is basically the idea that you are saved through faith in Christ AND good works.[q/quote]That is not what Lordship salvation is. Lordship simply states, if Christ is not Lord of your life then He is not Savior. Not only is this true but it can be proven biblically.

Now technically it does not require good works, and instead advocates for a changed life, and uses good works as a means of gauging whether a life has been changed.

Word is a good gauge on whether one is saved or not just like James said, you say you have faith I will show you my faith by my works.

[quote:13447shz]Free grace salvation is basically the idea that salvation comes from faith alone.

[/quote:13447shz]All believers even those that adhere to Lordship salvation understand that salvation come by grace, and not by works. Although the only time the bible actually uses the phrase ''faith alone'' is in James 2 to declare we are NOT justified by faith alone. Free grace is a very evil false teaching, that springs from the worst of the OSAS movement. Basically it teaches as long as you know Jesus is the Messiah you are saved, regardless if you have ever had any live change or not, regardless if you are living in open unrepentant sin or not.


Lordship salvation is biblical, free grace is evil.

 

[watchman F]

My last comment, is that the free grave salvation is the most dangerous of them because it will lead many people into giving them what they think is salvation, but is really lies. It is through the free grace salvation idea that many evangelists come to "save" people, and it explains why people seem to be leaving the church in "droves". When in reality, they were just visiting the church, they never decided to sit around.

After re-reading your post I agree with much of what pard has said especially this last paragraph, However pard I think you have the wrong idea of what Lordship Salvation teaches. Basically we teach the first commandment love the Lord with all your heart, mind soul, and strength. If you are out doing your own thing claiming the name of Christ as savior, but will not yield to Him as Lord them something just aint right.

 

[watchman F]

One last thing to say about free grace. You ever heard the saying give him an inch he will take a mile? Well, that is what satan has done with the cavinistic view of perseverance of the saints. Which simply meant true believers will persevere, which although I am anything but calvinist is actually true. Then that got change to preservence of the saints which mean God preserve those He has ''elected''. Now we are getting in trouble. It is God that preserve us, but it is us that decides to endure, and the whole idea of the calvinistic election is tainted. From there we get OSAS, meaning Once you get saved you can never loose you salvation which is simply unbiblical. Then comes in free grace which mean you simply accept the Lord as Savior and you are good for life no matter how you live or whether you ever serve the Lord or not. And from there we even go lower to the next step which is easy believism which teaches anyone who believe Jesus is Messiah is saved even if they never even accept Him and Savior, just the mental understanding of Him being Lord is good enough. Free grace the 2nd from the bottom and a continuingly downward trend of satans deception on the doctrine of grace.

 

[Pard]

WM,

I know what real Lordship salvation is, but the problem is the more "modern" view is good works, which is simply wrong.

And though I disagree with your OSAS comments I think we are looking at OSAS from two opposite prospectives. Have you seen my post in the OSAS thread?

 

[watchman F]

WM,

I know what real Lordship salvation is, but the problem is the more "modern" view is good works, which is simply wrong.

And though I disagree with your OSAS comments I think we are looking at OSAS from two opposite prospectives. Have you seen my post in the OSAS thread?

No I will see if I can find it, but what about the below quote is there to disagree with?

From there we get OSAS, meaning Once you get saved you can never loose you salvation which is simply unbiblical.

 

[Pard]

Well, for me OSAS as it is normally views is wrong. However, once you are saved you are always saved, but the problem is people see that as an open invitation to accept J.C. and then go right back into sinning. In reality, all it means is that when you are saved the Holy Spirit fills you and you cannot every go back because you are a new creature and the old one is dead and gone.

 

[watchman F]

Well, for me OSAS as it is normally views is wrong. However, once you are saved you are always saved, but the problem is people see that as an open invitation to accept J.C. and then go right back into sinning. In reality, all it means is that when you are saved the Holy Spirit fills you and you cannot every go back because you are a new creature and the old one is dead and gone.

Why would Paul warn the church from turning away from their faith if it were impossible?

(Not that this is an OSAS thread)

 

[Pard]

Well, for me OSAS as it is normally views is wrong. However, once you are saved you are always saved, but the problem is people see that as an open invitation to accept J.C. and then go right back into sinning. In reality, all it means is that when you are saved the Holy Spirit fills you and you cannot every go back because you are a new creature and the old one is dead and gone.

Why would Paul warn the church from turning away from their faith if it were impossible?

(Not that this is an OSAS thread)

Can I force myself, even with the Holy Spirit, to move from God? Yes, I can. I think Paul was trying to prevent people from getting into the cycle of sin. That is a cycle where we go to God, we get cocky, we move from God to sin, we fall into despair, and we come back to God. And then we repeat this.

That's just what comes off the top of my head. We can talk elsewhere in detail.

 

[watchman F]

Well, for me OSAS as it is normally views is wrong. However, once you are saved you are always saved, but the problem is people see that as an open invitation to accept J.C. and then go right back into sinning. In reality, all it means is that when you are saved the Holy Spirit fills you and you cannot every go back because you are a new creature and the old one is dead and gone.

Why would Paul warn the church from turning away from their faith if it were impossible?

(Not that this is an OSAS thread)

Can I force myself, even with the Holy Spirit, to move from God? Yes, I can. I think Paul was trying to prevent people from getting into the cycle of sin. That is a cycle where we go to God, we get cocky, we move from God to sin, we fall into despair, and we come back to God. And then we repeat this.

That's just what comes off the top of my head. We can talk elsewhere in detail.

Yes i think we should move any further talk about OSAS to the OSAS, although free grace is tied closely to OSAS

 

[Theofilus]

Grace is free, but it's not cheap.

The problem isn't "free grace", but "cheap grace". Grace doesn't cost anything, but it requires everything. If we say "Jesus, come into my heart and be Lord of my life and make me the person you want me to be", how can we turn around and talk as if His Lordship were a bad thing?

 

[watchman F]

Grace is free, but it's not cheap.

The problem isn't "free grace", but "cheap grace". Grace doesn't cost anything, but it requires everything. If we say "Jesus, come into my heart and be Lord of my life and make me the person you want me to be", how can we turn around and talk as if His Lordship were a bad thing?

AMEN!!!!!

 

[Pard]

Grace is free, but it's not cheap.

The problem isn't "free grace", but "cheap grace". Grace doesn't cost anything, but it requires everything. If we say "Jesus, come into my heart and be Lord of my life and make me the person you want me to be", how can we turn around and talk as if His Lordship were a bad thing?

 

[Drew]

First, so people know:

Lordship salvation is basically the idea that you are saved through faith in Christ AND good works. Now technically it does not require good works, and instead advocates for a changed life, and uses good works as a means of gauging whether a life has been changed.

Free grace salvation is basically the idea that salvation comes from faith alone.

Good question and not an easy one.

However, we can be quite confident that Paul believes that final salvation is indeed based on good works:

6God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live

 

[francisdesales]

Grace is free, but it's not cheap.

The problem isn't "free grace", but "cheap grace". Grace doesn't cost anything, but it requires everything. If we say "Jesus, come into my heart and be Lord of my life and make me the person you want me to be", how can we turn around and talk as if His Lordship were a bad thing?

Yes, Mr Bonhoeffer certainly had the opportunity to demonstrate this. Indeed, more Christians need to be reminded of that "pick up your cross DAILY and follow me". Sometimes that calls for a dying to self - and that is not easy in this "please myself" society. Being a disciple is challenging, as any experienced Christian can testify to.

Regards