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Who really will be saved is quite nicely hidden in Scripture!

John Zain

Member

God hid various spiritual truths in Scripture because He knew they would really trouble
some people. He desired that they keep a positive attitude and not lose hope of heaven,
which would also make them better citizens of the world!
Re: conflicting doctrines in Scripture … God has not lied to us, tried to deceive us, etc.
But He has phrased His words so ingeniously, one almost has to be a “word meister†to
unravel what is really being said, which is impossible without the help of the Holy Spirit.

Concerning who will attain salvation, I have a few things for you to consider …


God gives His free gift of grace-faith to some, causing them to become believers
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.†(Ephesians 2:8-9)
But, please understand that a gift can be thrown away, rejected, or even destroyed.
A person can choose to ignore God’s gift, return to habitual sin, fall from grace, etc.


God’s grace is NOT promised to last forever
“You have become estranged from Christ … you have fallen from grace.†(Galatians 5:4)
“… looking carefully lest anyone fall short of (reject) the grace of God†(Hebrews 12:15)
God’s grace can be rejected, removed, etc. … so therefore it can be received in vain.
“We then, as workers together with Him, also plead with you
to not receive the grace of God in vain.†(2 Corinthians 6:1)
Remember, Jesus warned believers to first count the cost of being His disciples,
and the way which leads to eternal life is narrow and difficult, and few find it.
This was never intended to be a casual walk in the park ... it sure wasn't for Jesus!


It appears that born-again Christians are promised everything
But, such verses apply only to God’s especially-chosen “electâ€, described here …
“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
… whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified;
and whom He justified, these He also glorified.†(Romans 8:28-30)
Please note that Paul was writing only to the “faithful†saints in Ephesus.
The Key is … no one knows for sure WHO these “elect†really are!
But, we are very sure that the “elect†will be cleaned up, i.e. made ready for heaven.
God’s elect will co-operate with being conformed into the image of God’s Son.


How God’s elect are transformed from sinners into holiness
Through co-operating with God’s sanctification process, God’s “elect†learn obedience
leading to righteousness, leading to holiness, which leads to eternal life (Romans 6).
They are to be slaves of God, of obedience, of righteousness, which produces holiness!


A starting place for who God’s elect really are
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,
and (know) Jesus Christ whom You have sent.†(John 17:3)
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish†(John 10:27-28)
“For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.†(Romans 8:14)

God’s elect choose wisely as to whose slaves they will be
“we should no longer be slaves of sin … Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal
body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instru-
ments of unrighteousness to sin … to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … For the wages of sin is deathâ€
(Romans 6:6-23)

God’s elect choose to be slaves of obedience
“If you love Me, keep My commandments†(John 14:15)
“But if you want to enter into (eternal) life, keep the commandments.†(Matthew 19:17)
“He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him†(Hebrews 5:9)
“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.†(1 John 2:3)
“present yourselves slaves … of obedience leading to righteousness†(Romans 6:16)
“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.†(Revelation 22:14)

God’s elect choose to be slaves of righteousness
“present yourselves to God … as instruments of righteousness to God.†(Romans 6:13)
“present your members as slaves of righteousness …†(Romans 6:19)
“Do not be deceived … Awake to righteousness, and do not sin;
for some do not have the knowledge (of this truth) of God.†(1 Corinthians 15:33-34)

God’s elect choose to live holy lives
“Pursue … holiness, without which no one will see the Lord†(Hebrews 12:14)
“present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness†(Romans 6:19)
“slaves of God … holiness, and the end, everlasting life.†(Romans 6:22)
“let us cleanse ourselves … perfecting holiness in the fear of God.†(2 Corinthians 7:1)
“but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.†(1 Peter 1:15-16)
“present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,
which is your reasonable service.†(Romans 12:1)
“to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight --
if indeed you continue in the faith …†(Colossians 1:22)

God’s elect choose to be overcomers
“He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will NOT blot out his
name from the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father†(Rev 3:5)
“He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.†(Revelation 2:11)
Overcome by … overcoming Satan and your flesh, and their influence on you to sin.
“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.†(Revelation 3:21)
Note: Jesus did not overcome by believing that He is the Son of God re: 1 John 5:5.

Romans 6
slaves of God + slaves of obedience + slaves of righteousness > holiness > eternal life


But, God knows the heart …
surely it’s in the sincere trying and repenting, and not so much in being perfect.
 
But, please understand that a gift can be thrown away, rejected, or even destroyed.
A person can choose to ignore God’s gift, return to habitual sin, fall from grace, etc.

A watered down form of Calvinism? what is this? You can still taste the half cup of Whiskey added to the gallon of water.

Mike.
 
“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
… whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified;
and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” (Romans 8:28-30)

If one is NOT justified they are NOT saved.
Therefore, if one is predestined to be conformed and is called and justified, they are saved and can never loose that salvation, by your own interpretation. Not just predestined to be called and justified, but ALSO conformed. OSAS

But then you say that one can fall from this position in Christ by Not being conformed. But if they are predestined to be conformed they Have to be conformed. That's a circular argument and makes no sense.
Predestined to be conformed but not always conformed??
 
But then you say that one can fall from this position in Christ by Not being conformed. But if they are predestined to be conformed they Have to be conformed. That's a circular argument and makes no sense.
Predestined to be conformed but not always conformed??

That is what I am thinking. Someone thinks the pool of Calvinism looks refreshing and inviting but won't just jump in because they have fear that the water may to to cold.

Mike.
 
Not to try and start anything nasty or fully support or deny any theory or whatever...but have some never actually seen a full 180 by someone? I mean where fruit was bore, you could tell lives were changed from the inside out; and then all of a sudden like 18 years later turn around and slap god in the face?

Im not talking commiting a sin or even a thousand sins then losing grace type thing. Im talking about a purposeful walking away from god cause they simply didnt like him anymore due to the fact they thought god was responsible for something terrible in their past. And as silly and unjust the actual reasoning might seem to you or me they simply walked away. And not just walk away, i mean full turn with hate for god in their hearts.

Now this was started with my uncle and moved through the rest of his family like wildfire. One by one all within what seemed like less than a year they were all not just back living sinful lives, but rather promoting dissention and teaching their youngest awful things. It still breaks my heart to see the athiest junk my cousin puts up on his crackbook page for the world to see, the seeds his dad has sown. I could never accept the opinion that they were never saved to begin with or anything similar. They are the ones who introduced me to His almighty person.

Sorry yes that rambled on a bit but the original question was what i was trying to convey.
 
2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.
 

2 Thessalonians 2:13
God hath from the beginning chosen you (i.e. the elect) to salvation
through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

I will wager that the underlined in the Greek are in the continual tense
... to be continued until death!

The elect are described in Romans 8:28-30.
These elect are the only ones going to heaven (and the demands on them are great).
They were elected before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4, etc.).
[Paul was writing to the saints in Ephesus who actually were "faithful"].

God foresaw WHO would carry that precious ball of grace-faith-salvation
... across the goal-line into heaven.
Yes, He actually saw these elect co-operating with God's Spirit
... to be fully sanctified unto holiness.

Romans 6
slaves of God + slaves of obedience + slaves of righteousness
>>> holiness >>> eternal life


Understanding Romans 6 ...
As usual, Paul is speaking out of both sides of his mouth
(edifications & warnings/commands), for example:

“you became slaves of righteousness” (Rom 6:18)
… i.e. they were given the ability to be (through God's Spirit)
“so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” (Rom 6:19)

To summarize Romans 6 ...
You ARE, so you'd better BE, or else ... you will suffer eternal death!

Oh yes, the eternal death part is in 6:16 and 6:21 ... and almost forgot 6:23.

And everywhere BACs complain,
"There are NO Scripture warnings about BACs losing their salvation!"


This is the condition of the American churches!
Next up ... a thread on Laodicean churches.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
God foresaw WHO would carry that precious ball of grace-faith-salvation
... across the goal-line into heaven.
Yes, He actually saw these elect co-operating with God's Spirit
... to be fully sanctified unto holiness.

That's closer to what I believe this scripture means.
 
Not to try and start anything nasty or fully support or deny any theory or whatever...but have some never actually seen a full 180 by someone? I mean where fruit was bore, you could tell lives were changed from the inside out; and then all of a sudden like 18 years later turn around and slap god in the face?

Im not talking commiting a sin or even a thousand sins then losing grace type thing. Im talking about a purposeful walking away from god cause they simply didnt like him anymore due to the fact they thought god was responsible for something terrible in their past. And as silly and unjust the actual reasoning might seem to you or me they simply walked away. And not just walk away, i mean full turn with hate for god in their hearts.

Now this was started with my uncle and moved through the rest of his family like wildfire. One by one all within what seemed like less than a year they were all not just back living sinful lives, but rather promoting dissention and teaching their youngest awful things. It still breaks my heart to see the athiest junk my cousin puts up on his crackbook page for the world to see, the seeds his dad has sown. I could never accept the opinion that they were never saved to begin with or anything similar. They are the ones who introduced me to His almighty person.

Sorry yes that rambled on a bit but the original question was what i was trying to convey.

Thanks for sharing. That is truly heartbreaking.

We need to heed what you have shared with all soberness and fear of The Lord.


JLB
 
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